Guide - Liu Kang Current advantageous special cancel strings for Liu Kang across all variations as of July 2015

[STRYKIE]

As far as some as some of these goes, it's only a matter of when they will be nerfed, rather than if, but I'd like to compile a concrete list. This way, we can negotiate how these can go about being regulated without hurting other aspects of the string utilities variation wide as what happened with D'Vorah and Scorpion. And/or so we can stop collusion artists who are keeping the information of the lesser known true block strings to themselves hoping it remains unscathed in the next patch.

All of these tests were conducted in training mode with Cassie Cage set to always blocking with her 6 frame flipkick as a reversal in the corner.

I'm only listing the results that I absolutely know I was able to get, and if I must, I can post video evidence. It's entirely possible that some of these are more advantageous than what I have discovered, and I suggest all Liu Kang players more familiar with the character than I am check over the list and test themselves.

Key:

* Follow up normal of same speed jails
* Follow up normal with even or slower speed than Cassie's Flipkick by this figure, take a frame, will beat it out

DRAGON'S FIRE:

Spoiler

F213 FBRC: +15* (I'm aware that it's more than this but Liu doesn't have a slower normal than 15 frames to test)
F213 FBDC: +6*
F44 FBRC: +10*
112 FBRC: +10*
B34 first hit FBRC: +10*
B34 second hit FBRC: +10*
44 FBRC: +10*
111 FBRC: +7*
B3 FBRC: +7*
B33 first hit FBRC: +7*
B33 second hit FBRC: +7*
3 FBRC: +7*
4 FBRC: +7*
B1 FBRC: +5*
B12 FBRC: +5*
F12 FBRC: +5*
F21 FBRC: +5*
11 FBRC: +5*
D4 FBRC: +5*
F4 second hit FBRC: +5*
F3 FBRC: +1*
F4 first hit FBRC: +1*

FLAME FIST:

Spoiler

F213 EX Shaolin Flame: +12*
112 EX Shaolin Flame: +3*
F44 EX Shaolin Flame: +2*
B34 first hit EX Shaolin Flame: +2*
B34 second hit EX Shaolin Flame +2*
44 EX Shaolin Flame +2*

DUALIST:

Spoiler

F213 Metamorphosis: +7*

Maybe I'll go back and do more testing myself, but I think my hands have gone through enough carpal tunnel for one night.

 

[Wrubez]

I understand the logic behind why people would want his f213 fbc string nerfed but I'm not sure how you can do it without REALLY hamstringing Dragon's Fire LK. I think this is prob the least braindead of all the fbc's. as you have to be very precise in your inputs in order to get more than one.

At least with Scorpion, you actually have more options now that the opponent can armor his fbc. And he has a teleport to quickly bait your opponent. Liu doesn't have a teleport so how do you compromise here?

And didn't D'Vorah's get changed back to the original jailing string after folks complained? Honest question not sarcasm. I don't play her.

Maybe only allow for 1 jailing FBC and then the 2nd can be armored? Not sure how you would do that though.

 

[WakeUp DP]

He is fine

Online everything he does becomes block infinites lol.

 

[WakeUp DP]

And didn't D'Vorah's get changed back to the original jailing string after folks complained? Honest question not sarcasm. I don't play her.

Idk much about her either but I think they made it advantage on hit so it can be combo off of it but not on block so it doesn't become kabals nmdcs. Don't quote me on it though.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

I hope they just increase the recovery on Liu Kang's dash so he can't do the dash cancel pressure.

The run cancel pressure is fine given Liu's otherwise ordinary traits imo (Scorpion had enough tools to still be good after his pressure got nerfed... Liu doesn't imo).

 

[Wrubez]

I hope they just increase the recovery on Liu Kang's dash so he can't do the dash cancel pressure.

The run cancel pressure is fine given Liu's otherwise ordinary traits imo (Scorpion had enough tools to still be good after his pressure got nerfed... Liu doesn't imo).

Okay now this I can def get behind. The dash cancel pressure can be cheap for sure and that's where the braindead stuff takes over. By all means normalize that. Just don't take away his main pressure method of getting in.

 

[STRYKIE]

I understand the logic behind why people would want his f213 fbc string nerfed but I'm not sure how you can do it without REALLY hamstringing Dragon's Fire LK. I think this is prob the least braindead of all the fbc's. as you have to be very precise in your inputs in order to get more than one.

At least with Scorpion, you actually have more options now that the opponent can armor his fbc. And he has a teleport to quickly bait your opponent. Liu doesn't have a teleport so how do you compromise here?

And didn't D'Vorah's get changed back to the original jailing string after folks complained? Honest question not sarcasm. I don't play her.

Maybe only allow for 1 jailing FBC and then the 2nd can be armored? Not sure how you would do that though.

I hope they just increase the recovery on Liu Kang's dash so he can't do the dash cancel pressure.

The run cancel pressure is fine given Liu's otherwise ordinary traits imo (Scorpion had enough tools to still be good after his pressure got nerfed... Liu doesn't imo).

Here's what I think.

It should be a mix of slightly reducing the cancel advantage on the strings, and slightly increasing the window on when the Dragon's Fire fireball can be cancelled as long as it doesn't compromise his ability to convert a true combo on hit. It's clear that Dragon's Fire wins by a country mile on the sheer quantity of these true blockstrings, both against his other variations and against other characters with run cancels. It would be a shame if Flame Fist and Dualist completely lost theirs in the process, especially Dualist given it's interesting in the fact that it's the only variation with a frame trap that isn't resource dependent (stamina, meter, etc.).

Even if Dragon's Fire no longer had anything that jails but still had plus frames, he would still be scary to deal with, he has plenty of strings that are good for chasing down backdashes and/or breaking armor.

I'm not sure what the situation is with D'Vorah's run cancels, to my understanding the only thing they changed after nerfing them was adding buffer frames to the cancel itself so that she could still reliably convert from her 50/50s on hit. Even then, she could only get a true block string from F112 which you can take the last hit on. There are plenty of strings here where you don't have that option with Liu, and if you get stuck against it when cornered, there's no two ways about it, you are absolutely fucked.

I'll tag some other Liu players and see what their thoughts are:

@AK Harold
@AK L0rdoftheFLY
@FOREVER EL1TE
@Phosferrax
@XBlades
@KingHippo
@Derptile
@xarakamaka
@Black Chapters
@EMPR_MURK
@RM_Gamer

^ If there's anyone I've forgotten, give them a tag aswell.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

When you see dualist only has one plus block string

 

[Wrubez]

Here's what I think.

It should be a mix of slightly reducing the cancel advantage on the strings, and slightly increasing the window on when the Dragon's Fire fireball can be cancelled as long as it doesn't compromise his ability to convert a true combo on hit. It's clear that Dragon's Fire wins by a country mile on the sheer quantity of these true blockstrings, both against his other variations and against other characters with run cancels. It would be a shame if Flame Fist and Dualist completely lost theirs in the process, especially Dualist given it's interesting in the fact that it's the only variation with a frame trap that isn't resource dependent (stamina, meter, etc.).

Even if Dragon's Fire no longer had anything that jails but still had plus frames, he would still be scary to deal with, he has plenty of strings that are good for chasing down backdashes and/or breaking armor.

I'm not sure what the situation is with D'Vorah's run cancels, to my understanding the only thing they changed after nerfing them was adding buffer frames to the cancel itself so that she could still reliably convert from her 50/50s on hit. Even then, she could only get a true block string from F112 which you can take the last hit on. There are plenty of strings here where you don't have that option with Liu, and if you get stuck against it when cornered, there's no two ways about it, you are absolutely fucked.

I'll tag some other Liu players and see what their thoughts are:

@AK Harold
@AK L0rdoftheFLY
@FOREVER EL1TE
@Phosferrax
@XBlades
@KingHippo
@Derptile
@xarakamaka
@Black Chapters
@EMPR_MURK
@RM_Gamer

^ If there's anyone I've forgotten, give them a tag aswell.

Interesting feedback and I do respect your opinion very much. I just don't want NRS to fuck up his inevitable nerf to the point where it's pointless to even attempt pressure with a character that ultimately lives and dies by pressuring his opponent.

If he had an overhead starter so that he could perform true mixups post fbc then maybe I would be intrigued to see your idea play out.

Otherwise I can only envision a scenario where you go to apply your f213 pressure and all the opponent needs to do is block the first try and armor out, this forcing LK to only block or jump (as opposed to Scorp being to do that AND teleport for hit)

Also it's one of DF's main ways of building meter too so if you are limited to blocking/jumping over the armored reversal...the pressure part of a pressure character like LK becomes null and void in my opinion, and building meter becomes more of a chore (DF doesn't do a whole lot of >30% meterless damage like a Kung Lao). A few combos can but it takes work (which I never really minded, hence the choice for him to be my main). But you need that meter to be able to MB his bicycle kick and continue juggling and deal real damage.

I really do think that the fair compromise would be to take away the third option to dash. That seems to be a lot of people's main gripe is that he can dash into a b12 xx DK and recycle the pressure all over again.

Remember, it's not too difficult to guess where Liu is going without an OH starter (just crouch block and eat the b2 if you're late on that read) so if someone tries to use the f213 over and over, they will be sorry to try a 3rd and wind up eating a full combo without the need for them to armor. Make any sense? Again not really arguing your points just seeing if a fair compromise could be reached.

 

[Derptile]

Well, Dragon's Fire confirmed S Tier. The only thing I would change are the f213 Fbdc loops, you can Block infinite characters that don't have meter or a poke faster than 8 frames. Everything else is fine, stamina can only last so long.

 

[STRYKIE]

Interesting feedback and I do respect your opinion very much. I just don't want NRS to fuck up his inevitable nerf to the point where it's pointless to even attempt pressure with a character that ultimately lives and dies by pressuring his opponent.

If he had an overhead starter so that he could perform true mixups post fbc then maybe I would be intrigued to see your idea play out.

Otherwise I can only envision a scenario where you go to apply your f213 pressure and all the opponent needs to do is block the first try and armor out, this forcing LK to only block or jump (as opposed to Scorp being to do that AND teleport for hit)

Also it's one of DF's main ways of building meter too so if you are limited to blocking/jumping over the armored reversal...the pressure part of a pressure character like LK becomes null and void in my opinion, and building meter becomes more of a chore (DF doesn't do a whole lot of >30% meterless damage like a Kung Lao). A few combos can but it takes work (which I never really minded, hence the choice for him to be my main). But you need that meter to be able to MB his bicycle kick and continue juggling and deal real damage.

I really do think that the fair compromise would be to take away the third option to dash. That seems to be a lot of people's main gripe is that he can dash into a b12 xx DK and recycle the pressure all over again.

Remember, it's not too difficult to guess where Liu is going without an OH starter (just crouch block and eat the b2 if you're late on that read) so if someone tries to use the f213 over and over, they will be sorry to try a 3rd and wind up eating a full combo without the need for them to armor. Make any sense? Again not really arguing your points just seeing if a fair compromise could be reached.

Well I play Scorp myself and I feel his single hitting overhead without leading to full combo is serviceable for keeping people in check during the pressure. (okay, he does have an overhead starter but at 25 frames you're extremely unlikely to hit anyone with it within set play).

I'm not too sure what you mean to being limited to jumping an armored reversal? To avoid being snuffed out during pressure? B1 and F4 both do well to break armor (even F21 has from time to time when I didn't expect it to) and they might still be + on block from a FBRC if NRS doesn't take my suggestion. F213 Fireball Dash Cancel is only + because of the massive amount of recovery the cancel shaves off, if the run cancel advantage is lessened then the dash cancel would be fixed by default. As you said, the Dragon Kick meter burn option is always there if you want to retain some plus frames when you run out of stamina.

But yeah, I can't make no promises as to how the new metagame of his pressure will play out, it is something we will have to see in practice post-patch. And hopefully NRS will finally cave in and fix his hitboxes so he can check people without the need for these resources in the first place.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Is there any footage of a DF dominating? Nobody going to tournaments place him at that level from what I've seen. In theory he probably needs to be nervous but we've never seen it in action yet.

 

[Derptile]

Is there any footage of a DF dominating? Nobody going to tournaments place him at that level from what I've seen. In theory he probably needs to be nervous but we've never seen it in action yet.

Not a single Dragon's Fire player has done well anywhere. The best out of all the known players are RM ATK, some dudes from Ghana(100% srs), Me(also 100% srs), maybe King Hippo, and Curbo(I saw some old videos of his back in may and he was looking good, if he still plays DF then he would probably be the best).

Also I don't want to hear anything about WhiteBlack or whatever, people christened him as a Liu Kang Saint and he got bodied at that one European tournament. Those Ghana dudes posting their videos were 100x better.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

It'll take time but you'll eventually see DF's I think. Any kind of nerf makes me sad though
But I am of course biased.

 

[1man3letters]

nice post @STRYKIE

 

[STRYKIE]

F213 FBDC in Dragon's Fire proven to be at least +6, OP edited accordingly.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

It's time to remake this thread

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

@xarakamaka

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

@xarakamaka

Yeh I will make it tommorow with all his cancels I think