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CrazyFinger's Swamp Thing MU Chart (WiP)

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I don't see how he loses to Robin, I've always had that down as even
Robin outpaces him in the neutral and takes huge advantage of his slow ass buttons. The fact that Swamp Thing's buttons are so slow makes the counter poke game super one dimension on his side meanwhile Robin is barely negative on a lot of things which means he might as well be 0 on everything against swamp thing. This also makes exploiting any gaps he has a nightmare which is a big a big part of the mu.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Damn this MU chart still has hella up-playing.

Swamp Thing is much better now, but we throwing around 6-4's like candy lol.

I'll believe it once I see a single Swamp main win anything. Right now he's a pocket counterpick for weird MU's and a matchup knowledge trick play.
11 winning MUs=Throwing around like candy? He still has some completely garbage matchups and most of his chart is 5-5s. I don't upplay I take my experience in the MUs and use that to determine the number, that's all.
 
It's absurdly slight simply because the mobility is awkward to get around for Swamp Thing and he can't use DB3 nearly as effectively but in the midrange/up closw its pretty even.
green arrow cant really do anything once swamp thing gets in and his log is much more effective at shutting him down now. swamp thing can stay at a perfect distance to always blow up green arrow wakeup while still being in the range to meaty him on knockdown because of his range. he has a tool to stop high/jump shots and a tool to stop savage blast as well. its hard for me to see green arrow beats him.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
green arrow cant really do anything once swamp thing gets in and his log is much more effective at shutting him down now. swamp thing can stay at a perfect distance to always blow up green arrow wakeup while still being in the range to meaty him on knockdown because of his range. he has a tool to stop high/jump shots and a tool to stop savage blast as well. its hard for me to see green arrow beats him.
Log IS effective at locking him down now but it's still a bit of an awkward situation to get the log out with the threat of low shot being there. There's not really much stopping GA from shooting low shots until the Swamp Thing player gets the hint that he should block for a bit. Eventually you'll start jumping low shots or inching in which gives you space to reload/do jump shots. It's all reads it's just that the reads are in Green Arrow's favor full screen.
 
I figured I'd put this out there to start conversation about this character. I think he is way better than people give him credit for (still pretty bad) So here's where I think he struggles and excels MU wise.

Character: Swamp Thing-Character
Aquaman: 6-4

Atrocitus: 6-4

Bane: 6-4

Batman: 5-5

Black Adam: 5-5

Canary: 6-4

Blue Beetle: 4-6

Brainiac: 6-4

Captain Cold: 5-5

Catwoman: 3-7

Cheetah: 5-5

Cybrog: 5-5

Darkseid: 6-4

Deadshot: 5-5

Fate: 6-4

Firestorm: 4-6

Flash: 5-5

Gorilla Grodd: 6-4

Green Arrow: 4-6

Green Lantern: 5-5

Harley Quinn: 5-5

Joker: 5-5

Ivy: 5-5

Red Hood: 4-6

Robin: 4-6

Scarecrow: 5-5

Starfire: 5-5

Sub-Zero: 4-6

Supergirl: 5-5

Superman: 4-6

Wonder Woman: Very slight 4-6

Black Manta: 6-4

Raiden: 6-4

Hellboy: 4-6

Atom: Under Investigation, possible 4-6


Discuss, enjoy.
Personally, I think he loses 3-7 super girl and superman.

I also think he loses to Cheetah. I'm surprised you have sub zero losing, can you explain that one

Lastly, I think he doesn't lose that bad to Cat woman.

I'm still trying to figure it out, and obviously you play the game more, just my observations
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Personally, I think he loses 3-7 super girl and superman.

I also think he loses to Cheetah. I'm surprised you have sub zero losing, can you explain that one

Lastly, I think he doesn't lose that bad to Cat woman.

I'm still trying to figure it out, and obviously you play the game more, just my observations
Play against a Catwoman that knows that she can just B3 and J2 through all your stuff and you will cry yourself to sleep with nightmares of that MU.

Sub Zero dominates the close range and will basically always be in the close range giving Swamp Thing no room to breath at all. If the subs youre fighting are Yolo or playing uber defensive (like a ton of bad subs do) you won't find a huge issues in the MU.

Superman is 4-6. The zoning and F23 pressure is rough but we still control good spaces, can actually AA him and just kill him when we knock him down. You need to be uber patient and your defense/reads have you be on point but it's doable.

Supergirl you just have to accept that she is Supergirl and will do Supergirl things. In every MU, even the ones she loses (if she loses any?) she controls the pace of the match but you certainly can compete with her ranges. It's 5-5 simply because you both have answers to each others bullshit but Supergirl is Supergirl and will always feel rough to fight, cuz she's Supergirl.

Cheetah you out neutral her on the ground and have good answers to leap. Also there isn't much she can do to stop you from popping trait and laming it out. You are playing reactionary/defensively in this MU if you try to rush her down she's gonna win cuz she bodies you up close. Pushblock often, play defense and the better player should win, 5-5.
 
Play against a Catwoman that knows that she can just B3 and J2 through all your stuff and you will cry yourself to sleep with nightmares of that MU.

Sub Zero dominates the close range and will basically always be in the close range giving Swamp Thing no room to breath at all. If the subs youre fighting are Yolo or playing uber defensive (like a ton of bad subs do) you won't find a huge issues in the MU.

Superman is 4-6. The zoning and F23 pressure is rough but we still control good spaces, can actually AA him and just kill him when we knock him down. You need to be uber patient and your defense/reads have you be on point but it's doable.

Supergirl you just have to accept that she is Supergirl and will do Supergirl things. In every MU, even the ones she loses (if she loses any?) she controls the pace of the match but you certainly can compete with her ranges. It's 5-5 simply because you both have answers to each others bullshit but Supergirl is Supergirl and will always feel rough to fight, cuz she's Supergirl.

Cheetah you out neutral her on the ground and have good answers to leap. Also there isn't much she can do to stop you from popping trait and laming it out. You are playing reactionary/defensively in this MU if you try to rush her down she's gonna win cuz she bodies you up close. Pushblock often, play defense and the better player should win, 5-5.
Thanks Crazy! You're the best!
I forgot to ask for an explanation of Ivy, I feel like she zoned him out hard
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Also, me and my brother play the Grodd, Swamp Thing MU, and we decided a while back it was 5-5. Could you run down why Swamp Thing wins it?
Our midrange buttons are better and we can again lame him out. It's very similar to the cheetah MU only grodd gets big time fucked by all our stuff. His leap isn't at good, his up close game isn't as scary. We bully him pretty hard on basically every part of the screen. Also log makes grodd a sad boy.
 

Skedar70

Noob
Are we sure that Catwoman is a losing MU for Swamp thing? Lately he has been my answer to this MU. The way I am playing the MU is just keep away walk back and try to zone a little activate trait and let it rock she has to walk in or wait since she doesn't have a projectile. One of the problems with Catwoman is that she can usually jump in from a distance for free with her wip and go into her nasty staggers. A good thing that Swamp thing has to challenge this is his air vine grab which does a lot of damage and puts the fear in her. I saw Sylverrye using hellboy against her and doing the same thing since his air grab can also capture her from her jump in. Once the vine grab is in the catwomans mind she will eventually hold a log on block at which point swamp thing can go on the offensive.

Another thing that many catwoman players do is stagger and then back dash were she is usually out of reach of many characters. However, Swamp thing has his f2 that can actually reach her after the backdash.

Deadly rebel mentioned that her b3 low profiles the f2 string at some point, but this is inconsistent and even if it does it isn't soo bad the only thing us swamp players have to do is look out for it. Also if you block a b3 she is negative so she has to hold your pressure now or if she back dashes she will have to hold an f2 mixup.

Another note is that Swamp thing is kind of good against jump ins. His wake up prevents people from trying up OKI crossups. Catwoman players are very jumpy. Even Semiij jumps a lot.

I don't think this MU is bad at all.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Are we sure that Catwoman is a losing MU for Swamp thing? Lately he has been my answer to this MU. The way I am playing the MU is just keep away walk back and try to zone a little activate trait and let it rock she has to walk in or wait since she doesn't have a projectile. One of the problems with Catwoman is that she can usually jump in from a distance for free with her wip and go into her nasty staggers. A good thing that Swamp thing has to challenge this is his air vine grab which does a lot of damage and puts the fear in her. I saw Sylverrye using hellboy against her and doing the same thing since his air grab can also capture her from her jump in. Once the vine grab is in the catwomans mind she will eventually hold a log on block at which point swamp thing can go on the offensive.

Another thing that many catwoman players do is stagger and then back dash were she is usually out of reach of many characters. However, Swamp thing has his f2 that can actually reach her after the backdash.

Deadly rebel mentioned that her b3 low profiles the f2 string at some point, but this is inconsistent and even if it does it isn't soo bad the only thing us swamp players have to do is look out for it. Also if you block a b3 she is negative so she has to hold your pressure now or if she back dashes she will have to hold an f2 mixup.

Another note is that Swamp thing is kind of good against jump ins. His wake up prevents people from trying up OKI crossups. Catwoman players are very jumpy. Even Semiij jumps a lot.

I don't think this MU is bad at all.
If you play a Catwoman that actually knows the MU, you are going to get demolished. Vine Grab is on a hard read and can work but if youre even off by a bit, blow up. If you'e getting away with any log kick within J2 range, the Catwoman player youre playing isnt play it right because she can just jump it and punish every time. You have no consistent way to deal with J2 outside of that extremely risky vine grab and up close, you basically cant AA Her at all. B3 low profiles basically every mid he has and on top of all that, your defensive options against stagger are absurdly 2 dimensional and she can disrespect the every loving christ out of you. So again, if you play the MU against a Catwoman who actually knows it, youre going to cry lol I also thought the MU wasnt that bad till Nicky and I played a couple of really long sets she outdoes you on the ground due to having about the same quality of buttons while also being able to essentially phase through your buttons, J2 is a problem for more than just raw jump ins, if youre playing ground game snd your goal is to keep them at F2 range and play in that space she's just gonna jump your grounded buttons and body you and considering your only option for that at the ranges she'll be jumping is a hard read? Odds are you're getting blown the fuck up.
 

Skedar70

Noob
If you play a Catwoman that actually knows the MU, you are going to get demolished. Vine Grab is on a hard read and can work but if youre even off by a bit, blow up. If you'e getting away with any log kick within J2 range, the Catwoman player youre playing isnt play it right because she can just jump it and punish every time. You have no consistent way to deal with J2 outside of that extremely risky vine grab and up close, you basically cant AA Her at all. B3 low profiles basically every mid he has and on top of all that, your defensive options against stagger are absurdly 2 dimensional and she can disrespect the every loving christ out of you. So again, if you play the MU against a Catwoman who actually knows it, youre going to cry lol I also thought the MU wasnt that bad till Nicky and I played a couple of really long sets she outdoes you on the ground due to having about the same quality of buttons while also being able to essentially phase through your buttons, J2 is a problem for more than just raw jump ins, if youre playing ground game snd your goal is to keep them at F2 range and play in that space she's just gonna jump your grounded buttons and body you and considering your only option for that at the ranges she'll be jumping is a hard read? Odds are you're getting blown the fuck up.
I disagree. A catwoman player can't jump in on reaction to the log animation she has to do it preemptively. So she is making a hard read also. She is taking just as much as a risk by jumping in at you as you are by doing an air vine grab (air vine grab does a lot of damage). I think ST air vine grab has even more reach than CW ji2 so you might hit her even if she whiffs. Once you get the catwoman player to notice how risky it is to jump at you she will stop at this point you can go for log kicks or an f2. You can also activate trait and walk back and let it spread at this point the catwoman can't come in since she would be in the garden and no longer be able to jump or dash you can try your logs at this point.

you can look at this MU against hellboy and compare it since Swamp thing has simillar tools. You walk back and shoot(logs) if she tries to j2 you air grab and you can catch her backdash with F2. If you are never challenging her j2 out of fear no wonder she abuses it and people feel its a losing MU.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I disagree. A catwoman player can't jump in on reaction to the log animation she has to do it preemptively. So she is making a hard read also. She is taking just as much as a risk by jumping in at you as you are by doing an air vine grab (air vine grab does a lot of damage). I think ST air vine grab has even more reach than CW ji2 so you might hit her even if she whiffs. Once you get the catwoman player to notice how risky it is to jump at you she will stop at this point you can go for log kicks or an f2. You can also activate trait and walk back and let it spread at this point the catwoman can't come in since she would be in the garden and no longer be able to jump or dash you can try your logs at this point.

you can look at this MU against hellboy and compare it since Swamp thing has simillar tools. You walk back and shoot(logs) if she tries to j2 you air grab and you can catch her backdash with F2. If you are never challenging her j2 out of fear no wonder she abuses it and people feel its a losing MU.
I literally had Nicky reacting to and jumping log, every time lol you can totally react to that startup considering you have 21f to see it come out and then the time it takes to reach you is plenty of time to react
 

Skedar70

Noob
I literally had Nicky reacting to and jumping log, every time lol you can totally react to that startup considering you have 21f to see it come out and then the time it takes to reach you is plenty of time to react
The move would be completely useless in every match up if that were true. I really doubt you believe log is a useless move. I personally think is a great move. Risky to some degree but it is good. You have to be less predictable and space it propely. You can mix it up with a f2 or you can even bait the jumps in your favor. When the opponent is expecting a log they will jump at this point you grab them out of the air. If you think that everybody can just jump a log then the move wouldn't be as good as it is.