Match-Up Discussion - Killer CrazyFinger's Absurdly Late MU Chart

[CrazyFingers]

Hey everyone! It's been awhile and quite honestly I miss talking about this dude so, here's my Matchup chart. Enjoy. (First Number is Killer, Second number is the opponent)

Alien
Acidic: 5-5
Tarkatan: 5-5
Konjurer: 5-5

Jason
Unstoppable: 5-5
Relentless: 5-5
Slasher: 5-5

Kung Lao
Tempest: 5-5
Buzzsaw: 4-6
Hat Trick: 4-6

Jax
Wrestler: 4-6
Heavy Weapons: 5-5
Pumped Up: 5-5

Sonya
Demo: 4-6
Special Forces: 4-6
Covert Ops: 5-5

Kenshi
Balance: 4-6
Possessed: 4-6
Kenjutsu: 5-5

Kitana
Assassin: 3-7
Royal Storm: 3-7
Mournful: 3-7

Scorpion
Hellfire: 4-6
Inferno: 5-5
Ninjitsu: 4-6

Sub-Zero
Grandmaster: 4-6
Unbreakable: 5-5
Cryomancer: 5-5

Mileena
Piercing: 3-7
Ravenous: 3-7
Ethereal: 3-7

Takeda
Ronin: 4-6
Lasher: 4-6
Shirai-Ryu: 5-5

Cassie Cage
Hollywood: 3-7
Brawler: 5-5
Spec Ops: 4-6

Jacqui
Full Auto: 4-6
High Tech: 5-5
Shotgun: 5-5

Kung Jin
Ancestral: 4-6
Shaolin: 5-5
Bojutsu: 5-5

Tanya
Dragon Naginata: 4-6
Pyromancer: 2-8
Kobujutsu: 5-5

Bo'Rai Cho
Dragon's Breath: 5-5
Drunken Master: 5-5
Bartitsu: 5-5

Predator
HQT: 2-8
Hunter: 3-7
Warrior: 4-6

Shinnok
Imposter: 3-7
Boneshaper: 3-7
Necromancer: 4-6

Kano
Cuthroat: 4-6
Cybernetic: 3-7
Commando: 5-5

Johnny Cage
Stun Double: 5-5
Fisticuffs: 5-5
A-List: 5-5

Erron Black
Marksman: 5-5
Outlaw: 5-5
Gunslinger: 4-6

Liu Kang
Dualist: 4-6
Dragon's Fire: 3-7
Flamefist: 3-7

Ermac
Mystic: 4-6
Spectral: 5-5
Master of Souls: 5-5

Kotal Kahn
Sun God: 5-5
War God: 5-5
Blood God: 5-5

Reptile
Noxious: 4-6
Nimble: 3-7
Deceptive: 4-6

Ferra Torr
Vicious: 5-5
Lackey: 5-5
Ruthless: 5-5

D'vorah
Swarm Queen: 5-5
Brood Mother: 4-6
Venomous: 5-5

Raiden
Thunder God: 5-5
Master of Storms: 4-6
Displacer: 5-5

Quan Chi
Warlock: 4-6
Sorcerer: 3-7
Summoner: 3-7

Goro
Dragon Fangs: 5-5
Tigrar Fury: 5-5
Kuatan Warrior: 5-5

Tremor
Crystaline: 4-6
Metallic: 5-5
Aftershock: 3-7

Triborg
Cyber Sub-Zero: 4-6
Cyrax: 5-5
Sektor: 3-7
Smoke: 5-5

 

[Temetias]

Pyromancer and hqt 2-8 really? Not saying it's not, I don't have any xp with leatherface but I'm just curious what makes it so bad? The zoning?

Also 0 winning Mu's? Character is that bad ?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Pyromancer 2-8 really? Not saying it's not, I don't have any xp with leatherface but I'm just curious what makes it so bad? The zoning?

Zoning is a large part of it yea but also her high mobility really just fucks him bad. He has a really hard time dealing with mobility (that's why Cyber Sub is 4-6) plus her ability to just completely OS any wakeup he does is pretty shitty. It's a really bad time.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

Goro mops leatherface what theee. Leatherface cant wakeup cuz his armors too slow, and can os killer pressure.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Why does he loose against Hat Trick but goes even against Tempest?
Why does he loose against Wrestler but goes even against PU and HW?

 

[Youphemism]

Some of these are mental, once I get back on my laptop I'll get to the ones I disagree with

 

[CrazyFingers]

Why does he loose against Hat Trick but goes even against Tempest?
Why does he loose against Wrestler but goes even against PU and HW?

Tempest might honestly be losing. He does kind of strip a ton of my defense and never lets my offense start. For Jax I honestly just haven't had an issue at all with those two variations but every time I've played/seen Wrestler vs Killer played it's hard.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Some of these are mental, once I get back on my laptop I'll get to the ones I disagree with

I am 100% open to discussion, that's why the thread is here

 

[GLoRToR]

Pyro is 3-7, if you get in you can do damage. The problem is the pushback and the superior frames now.

 

[Damaja325]

I know this thread is for killer specifically but what do you think about mileena vs butcher? Would assume she beats him well in the neutral but from what i've experienced getting touched by him is utter hell.

 

[Youphemism]

Alien
Acidic: 5-5

How in the hell is this even? Acidic zones Killer out for DAYS and Leatherface doesn't have great options against his D4.


Jason
Unstoppable: 5-5
Relentless: 5-5
Slasher: 5-5

Can't remember the last time I played this matchup but rather than say I disagree I want to see why you think Killer vs Jason is even.


Kung Lao
Tempest: 5-5
Buzzsaw: 4-6
Hat Trick: 4-6

How does he lose to Hat Trick and go even with Tempest? That doesn't make sense lol. Hat Trick is a worse Tempest in most ways so if he loses to Hat Trick (which he doesn't) then he most certainly loses to Tempest.


Cassie Cage
Brawler: 5-5

Don't see why he wouldn't lose to Brawler if he loses to the other two, Brawler can actually present more of a problem since she has meterless damage comparable to Killer with a bar and even scarier offence with the command grab.


Kung Jin
Ancestral: 4-6
Shaolin: 5-5
Bojutsu: 5-5

Don't see how he would lose to Ancestral but go even with Bojutsu. Ancestral has the damage and zoning, sure, but Bojutsu also doesn't need to spend meter on anything and still has the same Kung Jin neutral that presents a problem for Killer. I believe Killer probably loses to all three variations of Jin tbh.


Bo'Rai Cho
Dragon's Breath: 5-5
Drunken Master: 5-5

There's no way he does as well against Drunken Master as he does Dragon Breath, Dragon Breath outclasses DM by a mile. Everything Dragon Breath does is safe and high damaging, but Drunken Master has to commit to a lot riskier playstyle for less reward most of the time. I'd say he loses to Dragon Breath and beats Drunken Master.


Predator
Hunter: 3-7

Why does Hunter 7-3 him? Don't see the case for that at all, Hunter's not THAT effective now imo. Would like to hear why you think Killer loses so bad to him.


Kano
Cuthroat: 4-6
Cybernetic: 3-7
Commando: 5-5

Ok there's absolutely no way he loses to Cybernetic 3-7, and surely not worse than Cutthroat. Cybernetic doesn't compete in damage with Killer, bs1 is too much of a threat to be throwing out D4s willy nilly to hold up your neutral and Killer's D3 is strong against Cybernetic's mediocre up close game. I feel like you're probably overrating his zoning a bit.


Johnny Cage
Stun Double: 5-5
Fisticuffs: 5-5
A-List: 5-5

Curious to hear why you think these are even, I would've said he loses to at least A-List and Stunt Double.


Ermac
Spectral: 5-5

You don't think he loses to Spectral? How come?


D'vorah
Swarm Queen: 5-5
Brood Mother: 4-6
Venomous: 5-5

Loses to Brood Mother but goes even with Swarm Queen? I'd have said other way about. What makes you think he loses to Brood Mother but goes even with Swarm Queen?


Triborg
Cyber Sub-Zero: 4-6
Cyrax: 5-5
Sektor: 3-7
Smoke: 5-5

Ok how does Killer go 5-5 with Smoke?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Kitana does win but I'm not sure she wins that bad lol

 

[ismael4790]

Balanced Kenshi does not beat Killer, it's actually the other way around. Even, at most. Leatherface is one of those characters that has a very consistent way to full combo punish any whiffed flurry from decent distance with his super fast advaning starter. The respect is constant.

Possessed beats him, yes. Kenjutsu, idk, have no experience in that matchup.

Fisticuffs matchup seems even, I agree.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Tempest might honestly be losing. He does kind of strip a ton of my defense and never lets my offense start. For Jax I honestly just haven't had an issue at all with those two variations but every time I've played/seen Wrestler vs Killer played it's hard.

My point was if Hat Trick wins that MU (dunno if he does since I don't know anything about Leatherface) then it means that Tempest wins aswell.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Very accurate for all 3 Variations of Reptile, but Noxious should be 7-3 just like Nimble. Other then that very accurate.

BTW it's really cool to see some MKX threads again.

 

[Youphemism]

Balanced Kenshi does not beat Killer, it's actually the other way around. Even, at most. Leatherface is one of those characters that has a very consistent way to full combo punish any whiffed flurry from decent distance with his super fast advaning starter. The respect is constant.

Possessed beats him, yes. Kenjutsu, idk, have no experience in that matchup.

Fisticuffs matchup seems even, I agree.

Whiffed flurry does not decide anything in matchups, that stopped being a talking point when people got good.

 

[JGillette]

Agree with the numbers about Tanya. However I would say the Pyromancer matchup is 3-7 instead of 2-8 because I dont really believe there is a 8-2 matchup in this game

 

[ismael4790]

Whiffed flurry does not decide anything in matchups, that stopped being a talking point when people got good.

Sure bro. What is punishable and what is not by characters does not affect their matchups.

In related news, frames don't matter and Hillary won the elections.

 

[Youphemism]

Sure bro. What is punishable and what is not by characters does not affect their matchups.

In related news, frames don't matter and Hillary won the elections.

Grow the fuck up. Where in my post did I say any of that?

Now if you're done overexaggerating as a deflection mechanism for not having a valid point you want to explain why Kenshi's should be throwing out clearly punishable flurries? Because there's not one but I'd like to hear your justification. Whiffed flurry does not decide matchup numbers, any good Kenshi player would understand that.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Zoning is a large part of it yea but also her high mobility really just fucks him bad. He has a really hard time dealing with mobility (that's why Cyber Sub is 4-6) plus her ability to just completely OS any wakeup he does is pretty shitty. It's a really bad time.

how does she os his wakeups? o.0

 

[CrazyFingers]

how does she os his wakeups? o.0

Whatever that double hitting normal is into MB Dust stuffs everything, leaves her super plus on hit.

 

[ismael4790]

Grow the fuck up. Where in my post did I say any of that?

Now if you're done overexaggerating as a deflection mechanism for not having a valid point you want to explain why Kenshi's should be throwing out clearly punishable flurries? Because there's not one but I'd like to hear your justification. Whiffed flurry does not decide matchup numbers, any good Kenshi player would understand that.

Here: "Whiffed flurry does not decide anything in matchups".

Any decent player (actually any player that knows a bit of how fgs work) would know that how your opponent can respond to each one of your attacks and your options affects the matchup. It IS the matchup indeed.

Any player that has used Kenshi more than 5 minutes and has a proper functional brain can understand that as the space control character he is, the range in which he can throw his specials and be relatively safe if he happens to make a mistake is relevant in each matchup. Leatherface can comfortably punish many Kenshi mistakes. He has good mid range options to create respect and a great way to whiff punish the most ranged special Kenshi has with short run into f1 at a VERY long range if the LF player is not ass. This affects the matchup. in a crucial way. LF players with good reactions can also deal with overhead slash running under and f1 punishing thanks to the fantastic frames Paulo blessed that special with. So Kenshi needs to be even more on point here than in many other matchups and barely use his most ranged attack because the risk reward is even worse than it usually is.

If the Leatherface player gets mopped by Balanced zoning, that player is not using all his options (maybe due to inexperience in the matchup) or is probably the kind of player that would say that Cassie Cage loses to Balanced or the kind of player that would block teleflurries instead of neutral ducking them.

This is not a 4-6 in Balanced favor. If you think otherwise, that's cool.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Whatever that double hitting normal is into MB Dust stuffs everything, leaves her super plus on hit.

her f2?

 

[ShrekForXbox]

I agree with this list other than the fact that I don't think mu's like Kitana are bad enough to be considered 3-7. Only one of these I may consider a 3-7 would be HQT and Pyro because their zoning is incredibly smothering, but Kitana and Shinnok even don't really have that effect. I'm also curious as to what makes Aftershock 3-7 and Crystalline 4-6?

Great list though!


God I miss this character ....