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Comprehensive Shang Change Wishlist

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I know Shang is good, this is just quality of life improvement shit mostly. More options/better options/more gameplay diversity.

Universal Changes:

1: Soul Steal (BF2) morph now lasts 15 seconds meterless, 20 seconds when amplified. You should have the option to want to play around this move if you want to. if you need to remove this from Warlock and make it Spellmaster exclusive to accommodate this buff I would totally accept that.

2: 21U2UD has a weird issue in juggles where the final meteor just whiffs because it doesn't actually travel anywhere. Make it track so he has this option as a combo ender midscreen if he chooses.

3: Sorcery Rush (bf4) is now a low

4: B1D2 KB should trigger in the most literal sense when it currently doesn't. If I'm playing Warlock and anti-air somebody with S2 into Hellsparks and I can make the chop hit by itself, it should work.

Warlock:

1: Straight Skull double amplified KB should trigger if the entire three hit special is a counter hit or punish. Rewards neutral, rewards footsies, gives Warlock just that tiny bit more of threat level and I think is fair because you blow both offense bars for it. This currently does 338 if you do it with easy KB's turned on.

Spell Master:

This shit needs a borderline rework.

1: Well Of Souls (DB2) stays out if you morph with it out. This compliments the potential idea of this variation being the morphing one. If Shang manages to reach the end of his morph timer safely, he gets 20% of the health back he'd get if he wasn't morphed.

2: Screaming Soul (BF1) does 120 damage, amplified version does 160.

3: Scatter Souls (DF3) now has 13 recovery on hit, making it a corner launcher, hitting somebody with max charge Scatter Souls makes it unblockable. Amplified Scatter Souls links off of 21 and F24 only.

Soul Eater:

1: Force Lift (DB1) KB now triggers if it hits at maximum range.

2: Superkick (DB4) KB now triggers if two Superkicks are used in a combo, the KB also no longer requires you to spend a bar for the launch.

LMK what you guys think.
 

Agilaz

#ShangLivesMatter
Premium Supporter
I like these, but would add:

- Fix B3U434 randomly whiffing after B3U4 while also finishing the string, resulting in a huge recovery animation that's just death.

- Slight damage increase on Lift.

- Do something about his FB startup. Right now it's slow, has the worst range, and the hitbox is rather tiny. One of these aspects should be improved, preferably startup frames.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I like these, but would add:

- Fix B3U434 randomly whiffing after B3U4 while also finishing the string, resulting in a huge recovery animation that's just death.

- Slight damage increase on Lift.

- Do something about his FB startup. Right now it's slow, has the worst range, and the hitbox is rather tiny. One of these aspects should be improved, preferably startup frames.
I completely disagree with buffing his FB. It's a 360 anti air.
 

Zviko

Noob
I wouldn't make Sorcery Rush BF4 a low. This is Soul Eater's only good thing right now. Having universal low just makes Soul Eater even more useless. Also, I'd be careful with Warlock. His zoning is already insane but I agree with Soul Steal. I think every variation should have it and it should be longer. That's Shang's main thing. Or at least make it so it doesn't morph you back mid combo.

I don't know anything about Spell Master but Soul Eater definitely needs some help with ninjas. Damage buff for both Ermac and Rain and their KBs. Maybe Ermac's is fine because you can catch people blocking late at mid screen. Rain's KB though...Just make it a kounter hit or KB when you hit it 3 times or something. And make it faster maybe. Right now it's only gapless after B1, F2 and 21 I think.

I also agree with people saying his FB needs buffing. It's one of the worst FBs in the game.
 
I wouldn't make Sorcery Rush BF4 a low. This is Soul Eater's only good thing right now. Having universal low just makes Soul Eater even more useless. Also, I'd be careful with Warlock. His zoning is already insane but I agree with Soul Steal. I think every variation should have it and it should be longer. That's Shang's main thing. Or at least make it so it doesn't morph you back mid combo.

I don't know anything about Spell Master but Soul Eater definitely needs some help with ninjas. Damage buff for both Ermac and Rain and their KBs. Maybe Ermac's is fine because you can catch people blocking late at mid screen. Rain's KB though...Just make it a kounter hit or KB when you hit it 3 times or something. And make it faster maybe. Right now it's only gapless after B1, F2 and 21 I think.

I also agree with people saying his FB needs buffing. It's one of the worst FBs in the game.
F2/b1/21 xx Super kick isn’t gapless, the gaps are just not big enough to interrupt with normals which is enough to make this work. But yeah! I agree It should be like that of his f24 and b11 at least as well.
 
I agree that Soul Steal needs adjustments. Maybe make normal Soul Steal act like the current amplified SS, and remove amp option. And I would let him have full damage of the stolen KBs. Right now risking you life to use it and do less damaging options then the ones your opponent has isn’t worth it. Like if I turn into Sonya, I rarely have time to enforce any of her own mix ups or even finish the damaging combos she has, and if I catch her with amp ring KB - I do 14%, and if she catches me morphed I get comboed into restand into morphback guaranteed kounter into another 35-40% into GGs bro!

Sorcery Rush definitely shouldn’t be a low. This is the perk of it’s Reptilian analogue in Soul Eater.

B1d2 KB shouldn’t trigger in combos, because for example Geras’ 111 1+3 KB doesn’t trigger like that either.

Warlock:
If there is something I would buff in Warlock, I would change the double amp skull KB to be like Sonya’s. Usually skull amp is a high. The skull modified by this ability should just become mid on the first Amplify and trigger the KB.
I would also add an option to amplify Ground Eruption after the first skull to allow corner combos, right now you can only get a corner combo of f242. And IT WON’T be like Shinnok’s Hell Sparks, you can either allow the early amplify on hit only, or make it like -25 on block.

Spellmaster:
I agree with the stuff the OP mentioned. I would maybe make the Soul well stay no matter what until you consume it, but it should have a limit on the max health it absorbs from opponent. The Summoning of the well and the absorption of it are both super punishable anyway.

Soul Eater:
I have seen someone make a suggestion to leave the damage on lift the same, but make Super Kick launch meterlessly (like Kabal’s dash). Maybe make it scale harder so that for example the combo f24xxSuper Kick, 3u2xx Lift Amp,d2 (which currently does 36% for 2 bars) now does like 30-32% for a bar.
Oh yeah and ending in d2 for optimal damage is lame. Maybe make meterless slide do 9% (like Sorcery Rush does) so that ending in b11xxslide or 3xxslide would do more damage than ending in d2.
Slide and Shake should have faster start ups. Slide should be around 16-17 frames and Shake should be 9fr.
The KBs need a change as well. Lift KB should trigger without amplify and still launch. The conditions for that are fine, people block late a lot when you catch them with that yolo or whiff punish. And you can punish them for trying to Flawless block f242 with that.
Super Kick KB should also launch for no meter And should be loaded after you have cancelled the Kick 3 times.
I saw someone suggest making it possible for Soul Eater to use the throw KB. That might be too good, but it would be awesome if it activated when you do the back throw right after the Super Kick cancel
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I agree that Soul Steal needs adjustments. Maybe make normal Soul Steal act like the current amplified SS, and remove amp option. And I would let him have full damage of the stolen KBs. Right now risking you life to use it and do less damaging options then the ones your opponent has isn’t worth it. Like if I turn into Sonya, I rarely have time to enforce any of her own mix ups or even finish the damaging combos she has, and if I catch her with amp ring KB - I do 14%, and if she catches me morphed I get comboed into restand into morphback guaranteed kounter into another 35-40% into GGs bro!

Sorcery Rush definitely shouldn’t be a low. This is the perk of it’s Reptilian analogue in Soul Eater.

B1d2 KB shouldn’t trigger in combos, because for example Geras’ 111 1+3 KB doesn’t trigger like that either.

Warlock:
If there is something I would buff in Warlock, I would change the double amp skull KB to be like Sonya’s. Usually skull amp is a high. The skull modified by this ability should just become mid on the first Amplify and trigger the KB.
I would also add an option to amplify Ground Eruption after the first skull to allow corner combos, right now you can only get a corner combo of f242. And IT WON’T be like Shinnok’s Hell Sparks, you can either allow the early amplify on hit only, or make it like -25 on block.

Spellmaster:
I agree with the stuff the OP mentioned. I would maybe make the Soul well stay no matter what until you consume it, but it should have a limit on the max health it absorbs from opponent. The Summoning of the well and the absorption of it are both super punishable anyway.

Soul Eater:
I have seen someone make a suggestion to leave the damage on lift the same, but make Super Kick launch meterlessly (like Kabal’s dash). Maybe make it scale harder so that for example the combo f24xxSuper Kick, 3u2xx Lift Amp,d2 (which currently does 36% for 2 bars) now does like 30-32% for a bar.
Oh yeah and ending in d2 for optimal damage is lame. Maybe make meterless slide do 9% (like Sorcery Rush does) so that ending in b11xxslide or 3xxslide would do more damage than ending in d2.
Slide and Shake should have faster start ups. Slide should be around 16-17 frames and Shake should be 9fr.
The KBs need a change as well. Lift KB should trigger without amplify and still launch. The conditions for that are fine, people block late a lot when you catch them with that yolo or whiff punish. And you can punish them for trying to Flawless block f242 with that.
Super Kick KB should also launch for no meter And should be loaded after you have cancelled the Kick 3 times.
I saw someone suggest making it possible for Soul Eater to use the throw KB. That might be too good, but it would be awesome if it activated when you do the back throw right after the Super Kick cancel
I'll give you the Sorcery Rush point. I made a video of this same list and dropped that.

15 seconds is what you need to make a morph count.

"B1d2 KB shouldn’t trigger in combos, because for example Geras’ 111 1+3 KB doesn’t trigger like that either." This isn't a logical point and it doesn't make any sense. That's Geras, so what?

I think on the triple fireball note you're both keeping it only okay and still making it more complicated than it needs to be? I dunno. I want it to be fully and practically usable. The problem with a lot of KB's in this game is they aren't in your control to use, they're dependent on your opponent fucking up. My take on that KB allows it to be used completely with intention instead of in a braindead scramble because someone panicked.

I'm surprised that people really want to buff Soul Eater, it's neutral control is kind of broke and some characters can't even play against it. I just figured the KB changes I suggested enhance what it's meant to do, which is play footsies. The Superkick "pressure" is a huge bill and requiring you to cancel the kick at all for the KB is insane to me to be honest.
 
able to hold shake longer, especially metered. Superkick shouldnt have a burn launch requirement at all. Damage should not be nerfed at all. If lang, geras, and the rest of the monsters can kb and combo up to 35 and 40 with one bar shang should too. And they have super recovery, stagger pressure, can d1 on blocked and whiff attacks and still catch you before you can punish. Either tone them down or bring shang up.
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
you forgot most important and simple thing , let him mb ground eruption at any point so he can actually combo in corner . Shinnok could mb his at any point co why shang cant do this ? I know you can combo in corner after f242 but what are the chances u are gonna open up someone good with it in corner ? Zero
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
you forgot most important and simple thing , let him mb ground eruption at any point so he can actually combo in corner . Shinnok could mb his at any point co why shang cant do this ? I know you can combo in corner after f242 but what are the chances u are gonna open up someone good with it in corner ? Zero
He doesn't need corner potential like that in Warlock. It's fine.
 
I'll give you the Sorcery Rush point. I made a video of this same list and dropped that.

15 seconds is what you need to make a morph count.

"B1d2 KB shouldn’t trigger in combos, because for example Geras’ 111 1+3 KB doesn’t trigger like that either." This isn't a logical point and it doesn't make any sense. That's Geras, so what?

I think on the triple fireball note you're both keeping it only okay and still making it more complicated than it needs to be? I dunno. I want it to be fully and practically usable. The problem with a lot of KB's in this game is they aren't in your control to use, they're dependent on your opponent fucking up. My take on that KB allows it to be used completely with intention instead of in a braindead scramble because someone panicked.

I'm surprised that people really want to buff Soul Eater, it's neutral control is kind of broke and some characters can't even play against it. I just figured the KB changes I suggested enhance what it's meant to do, which is play footsies. The Superkick "pressure" is a huge bill and requiring you to cancel the kick at all for the KB is insane to me to be honest.
You really think Soul Eater is good? I am genuinely asking for an opinion, because I am really split about him, that’s like my favorite variation esthetically but sometimes it seems mediocre to me, and sometimes I play a great set with him and think that it works again))
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
You really think Soul Eater is good? I am genuinely asking for an opinion, because I am really split about him, that’s like my favorite variation esthetically but sometimes it seems mediocre to me, and sometimes I play a great set with him and think that it works again))
I personally think Soul Eater is very good.
 
Soul eater needs a dmg boost in combo potential for 1 bar....lift in my opinion is good as is. Just change kb requirements/slide can change in faster startup or 3 amps and keep startup same. Morph back throw kb after all ninja transforms. Superkick kb meterless launcher is cool with me. Wishlist S3 change to a mid, b3U4 gapless
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Most of this is pretty good. The synergy between his kit in spell master really seems off atm. If that one move db4 or wtfever was changed mechanically to something like this would help a lot:
When charged can absorb projectiles. After absorbing two projectiles gains some kind of property and the same for 3. Maybe launcher or insane pushback or something. Anyway like u said variation needs borderline rework. Throw krushing blow is hella dumb as well.
 
I mean just make his throw KB function like other ones do, throw escape failed =>back throw KB loaded. It launches for a combo, but so does Jades forward throw and it is triggered by the throw escape fail as well. And it will be universal that way