Competetive needs to add the special abilities!

[John Silhacek]

It seems pointless to put really cool unique abilities in the game and not be able to use them in competitive. The flash has a projectile now and can't use it, whilst other characters get Dive kicks, projectiles and air projectiles on top of "Plus Frame" special moves that give them more free pressure. I'm in love with the flash and his meta but feel Crippled against these top tiers. I would really like to see some changes made. This doesn't just go for the flash. Gorilla Grodd gets bullied by zoners unless he gets his trait. And even after using his trait, it takes 15 seconds to recharge. Seems, to me, that they need to re-think the general layout of how match-ups work. I don't even need them to nerf the top-tiers into the dirt. Just give us some more options that don't always require burning a bar to get in and likely get blown-up in the effort.
Let me know if you guys agree.
Cheers!

 

[John Grizzly]

I've said this a million times, the abilities are an absolute waste if we can't see them used at a high level. I agree there needs to be a competitive mode with all abilities unlocked that players can choose from. It's no different than choosing a variation in MKX, so I don't see the issue. There's so many cool abilities locked behind the stupid gear system.

 

[John Silhacek]

I've said this a million times, the abilities are an absolute waste if we can't see them used at a high level. I agree there needs to be a competitive mode with all abilities unlocked that players can choose from. It's no different than choosing a variation in MKX, so I don't see the issue. There's so many cool abilities locked behind the stupid gear system.

Exactly. I feel that all they would need to do is make the gear purely cosmetic in competitive and just add the abilities. They even have to list of abilities before each match so people know what their opponent has!

 

[Somea2V]

The problem is that not all abilities are balanced. NRS already does such a questionable job in this department that I think we should count ourselves lucky the base game is as reasonably balanced as it is.

 

[John Grizzly]

Obviously, this would cause some balance issues, but I'd at least like to see it tested out as a side tourney or something. It may make some low tier characters more viable. Just seems like such a waste currently.

 

[TonyFatFingers]

Depends on the ability though. Superman has an ability that makes his super unblockable. Nobody wants that in competitive mode.

 

[Juggs]

Other than them not being balanced for competitive, the main issue is not everyone is going to have every ability. Meaning you can't lab with or against it if you don't have it. The only way this could be a thing is if you are given every ability in training mode. I mean there might even be an option, never cared to look.

 

[RikoLaw]

Unless the moves can be unlocked for every console this is a bad idea. We would have to wait around for a system that has that move gear unlocked.... to much of a pain in the ass

 

[Somea2V]

Obviously, this would cause some balance issues, but I'd at least like to see it tested out as a side tourney or something. It may make some low tier characters more viable. Just seems like such a waste currently.

But that's my point. Do we really want to take a gamble on NRS balancing something when they actually somehow got it almost right on the first try?

And to Tony's point, some abilities just aren't able to be balanced without nullifying the point. Superman's unblockable or Catwoman's Cat Call, for example. Look, I would love to have instant air shots as Cold, but would never take them if it meant allowing them in.

 

[knight x1868]

I'm glad someone else made a post about this. I was going to a while ago.

Here's the thing:
Abilities in the game give players OWNERSHIP of their characters. Right now, It feels as though I'm playing half of a game because I can't use my characters they way in which I want to used them despite having access to the tools I would need to use them that way. The worst part about it is that it wouldn't be a difficult addition. The Marvel Vs. Capcom series gives players the option to choose certain tools prior to every game. NRS could do something similar while adding nuance to the meta game. Imagine playing a set at a tournament, losing the first game, going back to character select and choosing two new abilities instead of a new character. The game is currently extremely ZONER HEAVY and that makes games dull and predicable. Not to mention that certain characters (i.e. Grodd) are absolutely unusable due to narrow frame windows. MOST of the abilities you have to UNLOCK to use exclusively in Multiverse (with exception to the few difficult nuggets in player matches) make zoning less intrusive and open up new and interesting combo opportunity.

BESIDES! WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SHOW THE STUFF OFF IN WATCHTOWER IF WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE IT COMPETITIVELY?!!!

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Guys -- some of these abilities are really broken. They were put in for kicks/fun, and they were never meant to be used in competitive play. They are meant for casuals.

We need to stop trying to push this, as this will never be a thing (and would not be good for competitive play).


This game wasn't designed around it and it would be an absolute mess.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

I'm not even going to get into the impact on matchups and the wonkiness this would introduce. This is not viable for tournaments simply because:

A) Every console would need to have every ability unlocked, and
B) Every single fight or character switch would have to start with each player setting up their load out. We are already pushing organizers with our need for 3/5 format. This is just logistically untenable.

 

[PetulantWaste]

No, some gear moves need to be added to a character's regular move-set. Gear moves should ONLY replace existing moves with slight variations, for example, Blue Beetle can change his projectile to a different one. That's a gear move. But air-mandible strike/ invisibility/ should just be regular moves. If you added them to BB's move set he wouldn't be overpowered or even that much stronger as a result.

Gear moves are this games version of variations but they are such a cheap and obvious money grab that it kind of makes me not want to play this game out of principle.

MKX gave each character 3 variations out the gate. Each character was complete and had to be balanced in their own variation. It was amazing. No stupid RNG grinding, no OP as hell gear moves, no stupid unbalanced player matches where one player has access to moves that the other player doesn't.

If this is the future of NRS games then they can count me out, not that they'll miss me now that people are spending real money just to upgrade their characters to level 20 and get costumes and shaders because grinding is random and unfun.

 

[Jaku2011]

People talking about how some stuff is broken or how it can't be implemented because you have to unlock them makes me think "Hey maybe NRS made some stupid decisions while making this game"

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

People talking about how some stuff is broken or how it can't be implemented because you have to unlock them makes me think "Hey maybe NRS made some stupid decisions while making this game"

....Except that's exactly why they included a bloody competitive mode! So that they could go crazy with their design decisions and not have to worry about the consequences.

/Thread.

 

[gam224]

Give me whatever this guy has been smoking

 

[knight x1868]

Guys -- some of these abilities are really broken. They were put in for kicks/fun, and they were never meant to be used in competitive play. They are meant for casuals.

We need to stop trying to push this, as this will never be a thing (and would not be good for competitive play).


This game wasn't designed around it and it would be an absolute mess.

Then don't make those available.
And saying the "game wasn't designed around it" is absolute garbage. The game was initially designed for it. And there was backlash around it by us (the NRS community) fearful that it would be broken without actually giving it a fair shot.

Ed Boon completely back pedals in multiple interviews about the gear system. Not to mention the comments.

"wait a minute so the winner will no longer be decided by who is the better skilled player but by who is the high level and therefore has the better Gear? WTF!?!?!? so now it will be like every other online game in which you ever plays longer is at a better advantage as opposed to who is better skilled?"

"Still not quite sold on the new gear system. Seems like a catastrophic misstep in the making. sigh"

"I love Injustice but I still don't know how I feel about the gear system. I don't like the idea of being forced to use gear that I don't like just because it has better stats (like vanilla Destiny). Or just the thought of a noob beating a veteran fighting game player like me because they have better gear"

"Am I the only one that thinks the gear system is kind of dumb? Wouldn't the person with the higher powered gear win easily?"

"I don't know why they even bothered with the gear system to be honest. I can see why they are for cosmetics and looks, but why give them stats? It's been announced that two separate modes will be in game, one with gear stats counting, and one without. I can guarantee a GOOD % of players won't even bother playing "gear stats count" mode. ESPECIALLY if you get the really good gear with RNG or worse, micro transactions."

 

[Jaku2011]

....Except that's exactly why they included a bloody competitive mode! So that they could go crazy with their design decisions and not have to worry about the consequences.

/Thread.

So cut out half the game so it's 'balanced' (which I bet it's not) fuck off with that. How are people defending this stupid shit when we had variations already where all the content in the game was useable from the get go in all matches?

 

[Baconlord]

Asking for abilities to be turned on in competitive is line asking for smash to be played with items

 

[I AM T3XAS]

The problem is that not all abilities are balanced. NRS already does such a questionable job in this department that I think we should count ourselves lucky the base game is as reasonably balanced as it is.

Yes the same 6 characters are always played in tourneys and most that I run into online. Bang up job on the balancing there.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

So cut out half the game so it's 'balanced' (which I bet it's not) fuck off with that. How are people defending this stupid shit when we had variations already where all the content in the game was useable from the get go in all matches?

Content gets cut for the sake of competition all the time. Console exclusive characters get cut. Kombat Codes aren't allowed (one exception aside).

Balanced is a relative term. If a fighting game has at least 8 viable characters and no S++ tiers I'd call that reasonably well balanced for a competitive fighter.
In any case though: balance isn't the be all and end all of competition though, and like I said in my post there's other factors to consider.

 

[John Silhacek]

Just give flash that projectile and his old dash move that can be meter-burned safely. I would be content. A lot of the other moves are super cool and creative but I wouldn't need the rest to be happy with him.

 

[Jaku2011]

Content gets cut for the sake of competition all the time. Console exclusive characters get cut. Kombat Codes aren't allowed (one exception aside).

Balanced is a relative term. If a fighting game has at least 8 viable characters and no S++ tiers I'd call that reasonably well balanced for a competitive fighter.
In any case though: balance isn't the be all and end all of competition though, and like I said in my post there's other factors to consider.

Which loops back to variations being the same concept done better...

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Then don't make those available.
And saying the "game wasn't designed around it" is absolute garbage. The game was initially designed for it. And there was backlash around it by us (the NRS community) fearful that it would be broken without actually giving it a fair shot.

They didn't make them available...in *competitive mode*.

As for your other argument:

NRS designs games as much for the casual player, if not more, then for the competitive. The game is built around the story and having a good time with your friends, which is why its loaded with a huge amount of content...but most of that was never intended for a competitive mindset.

 

[ChaosTheory]

You tend to be happier with fewer choices. Competitively in MKX, very few had the time/desire to break down most variations.

Doesn't completely ensure balance, but I would guess that more competitive players would prefer the MK9/Injustice style where there is less volume and it's more about honing your fewer options.

A single move can drastically alter a match-up. I don't believe most players want that many variables, personally.