Video/Tutorial - Grandmaster Clone does work properly by its current design

[Tigerbang]

@Tom Brady
for clarity's sake: HITBOX and HURTBOX in reference to attacks, so that less informed players will understand situations and examples like yours correctly.

The Hurt-boxes inside of MANY Attacks Hit-boxes (and vice versa) are all kinds of jacked cast wide. Kotal's forward or backward jumping 1 along with Raidens superman are some of the more extreme examples of what you are referring to.

It will be some work but I really hope NRS addresses all or most of these.

 

[JimJam92]

Look at that. Me and Vado were right.

See, don't question people who actually understand fighting game mechanics. We told you it was a hurtbox issue.

 

[DarthVado]

This is me to you right now @Tom Brady , just replace the sentence with "It was hurtboxes, wasn't it Tom?"

 

[DarthVado]

So @DarthVado's whole argument was basically correct then.

I don't like to gloat, but yes, yes it was, and Tom should really acknowledge that.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

This does still point out a flaw in the game.

The attack box doesn't necessarily have to be the same as the hitbox, but the hitboxes should extend as the characters extend to attack.

Hit boxes basically never function like this. Moves have startup frames, and then during their active frames, they are fully occupying the area that they hit. The animation occurs during these windows, but doesn't mean anything beyond looking cool and giving you a visual indicator of the move. This was what I said 3 threads ago, but I don't play sub zero, so obviously I couldn't possibly understand how basic elements of fighting games work. Seriously. How did this become this much of a thing? Yes, some hit boxes in this game are stupid, and yes, clone does a great job of highlighting that fact, but it doesn't mean clone isn't working, it means the moves that do this have poorly designed hurt boxes that are waaaayyyyy to disjointed from the hit boxes.

 

[Tom Brady]

True, but you've expressed the point in just about every other way possible, except implicitly. I don't think anyone argues that he is a top five character that certain characters have no options against, though. That's just a polarizing, over-exaggeration to be used as an attempt to prove yourself right by proving a point that no one is making, wrong. Don't mean to start an argument though; just giving advice: don't make points unrelated to the subject matter you're trying to convey or your thread is going to be derailed just like the other three you've made that relate to this same topic.

well.. silly me for any thread where the point was "Shouldnt the clone freeze you when you touch it?". It was others who said that if they could not poke through the clone and not be frozen that they are left with, and again i quote, "no options".

Do not pretend that people have not made Sub-Zero out to be this ridiculously broken character who dominates most of the characters. People were actually crying for him to be nerfed before the game launched after getting an early copy. It doesn't get more ridiculous then that.

 

[JimJam92]

I don't like to gloat, but yes, yes it was, and Tom should really acknowledge that.

 

[SEV]

well.. silly me for any thread where the point was "Shouldnt the clone freeze you when you touch it?". It was others who said that if they could not poke through the clone and not be frozen that they are left with, and again i quote, "no options".

Do not pretend that people have not made Sub-Zero out to be this ridiculously broken character who dominates most of the characters. People were actually crying for him to be nerfed before the game launched after getting an early copy. It doesn't get more ridiculous then that.

If anyone is saying that the Sub-Zero is broken or that they don't have any options against him, just ignore them. Odds are they haven't looked into their options at all, and you shouldn't need to waste your time to prove people wrong that are already doing a good job at proving themselves to be idiots.

I don't know what Ultradavid has said in regards to the ice clone, if that's the person you are trying to reference without naming specifically, but I think it would be dumb to disregard his opinion simply because he doesn't have a strong enough NRS background or enough Sub-Zero experience, if that is indeed your opinion. He's clearly shown that he is able to understand competitive games at the highest levels and if there is a disagreement, then it should be left at that, letting time resolve the matter.

And I'm definitely not saying you shouldn't be making posts when you find issues. I'm saying: keep the contents within your post relevant to the purpose of the post itself. The first half of the video was informative, while during the second half you went off on tangents about your opinions on Sub-Zero's viability and other things unrelated to the main purpose of the post. You should have stopped recording when you were done talking about relevant points.

Don't get upset when your threads are derailed when people comment on points that you didn't need to include, because for whatever reason you decided to bring them up in your original posts.

 

[RVB]

I don't like to gloat, but yes, yes it was, and Tom should really acknowledge that.

@DarthVado are you 12? Congratz on being right on something, shall we build a statue or do you want a medal?
The arguments in the other threads were pointless as we should have ALL agreed that what was needed was that NRS took an in depth look at the situation.
INSTEAD OF THAT we all made it, INCLUDING YOU, about who's wrong or right.
Congratz on your victory over Brady... I can sleep better now

 

[GAV]

Hit boxes basically never function like this. Moves have startup frames, and then during their active frames, they are fully occupying the area that they hit. The animation occurs during these windows, but doesn't mean anything beyond looking cool and giving you a visual indicator of the move. This was what I said 3 threads ago, but I don't play sub zero, so obviously I couldn't possibly understand how basic elements of fighting games work. Seriously. How did this become this much of a thing? Yes, some hit boxes in this game are stupid, and yes, clone does a great job of highlighting that fact, but it doesn't mean clone isn't working, it means the moves that do this have poorly designed hurt boxes that are waaaayyyyy to disjointed from the hit boxes.

I have either trained boxing or Kung Fu since I was 7. To me, being able to 'feel' a fighting game as realistic is important.

To pull the two genres together, which is the goal in most fighting games, just outside the "hitbox" should be a target for pain or misdirection - because in reality, it is usually the easiest target to strike or gain control through.

 

[DarthVado]

@DarthVado are you 12? Congratz on being right on something, shall we build a statue or do you want a medal?
The arguments in the other threads were pointless as we should have ALL agreed that what was needed was that NRS took an in depth look at the situation.
INSTEAD OF THAT we all made it, INCLUDING YOU, about who's wrong or right.
Congratz on your victory over Brady... I can sleep better now

No, that's not the issue, what we should have agreed on was to actually understand the issue before complaining to NRS and trying to get something "fixed" that wasn't broken. This community acts like it wants to change, and reform to be about adapting and becoming better players, then the slightest thing doesn't go your way for your character, and you start making wild accusation towards NRS demanding it be "fixed".

The arguments in the other threads were pointless, because anyone who knows anything about fighting games already knew the actual reason why what was happening was happening, and we explained it, calmly, but were met with extreme hostility for our efforts, so yes, the element of who's right or wrong becomes important at that point, because it means all that BS people like me got for trying to help was completely and utterly pointless, because it's exactly what we said it was the entire time, and sorry, but this was obvious.

 

[GAV]

No, that's not the issue, what we should have agreed on was to actually understand the issue before complaining to NRS and trying to get something "fixed" that wasn't broken. This community acts like it wants to change, and reform to be about adapting and becoming better players, then the slightest thing doesn't go your way for your character, and you start making wild accusation towards NRS demanding it be "fixed".

The arguments in the other threads were pointless, because anyone who knows anything about fighting games already knew the actual reason why what was happening was happening, and we explained it, calmly, but were met with extreme hostility for our efforts, so yes, the element of who's right or wrong becomes important at that point, because it means all that BS people like me got for trying to help was completely and utterly pointless, because it's exactly what we said it was the entire time, and sorry, but this was obvious.

I thought it needed to be fixed, but any perceived hostility on my part was misinterpreted.

 

[crosshair271]

The collisions feel like they are like this. I don't know if they went back to BOXES or if they stayed with the 3D detection from MK9. If they did use 3D then just imagine the color sections meshing over the model which has more accuracy. Regardless of the two it still feels like they are lined up like this. It seems hand attacks have more disjointed HITBOXES than leg attacks.

 

[Zebster]

The collisions feel like they are like this. I don't know if they went back to BOXES or if they stayed with the 3D detection from MK9. If they did use 3D then just imagine the color sections meshing over the model which has more accuracy. Regardless of the two it still feels like they are lined up like this. It seems hand attacks have more disjointed HITBOXES than leg attacks.

The pictures are all broken for me. Could you repost them on imgur or something?

 

[crosshair271]

The pictures are all broken for me. Could you repost them on imgur or something?

Re-uploaded on my post. Let me know if you can see them.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Re-uploaded on my post. Let me know if you can see them.

i can

 

[PandaManee]

If they nerf the hitboxes on moves the anti air situation would only get worse.