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Chernyy Volk's Black Manta Bible (Work In Progress)

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
did you try following up with d1 instead of another b2? i've been doing that sometimes too. but that might also be because u said you don't like utilizing the full mind game of b2.
I tried doing all the b2 stagger ideas when Manta first came out. Could never get it to work on anybody.
 

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I really want my Manta to be super good but I can't find a way to play him that isn't just damn boring.
I want to play like a rushdown manta.. if that's a thing. I'm pretty ignorant on whatever the hell Manta's plan is, can somebody point me to the right direction? Maybe even some labbing to help me out? I know some of the deep tech with him like his float cancel plus frame data, etc. I just want to know how to integrate that into core gameplay and make him worth while.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I feel like 2D3 is hit confirmable, at least to the extent where you can not input a special on block and just do the string. Further testing required.

21 is definitely hit confirmable, there's just not a ton of great stuff to hit confirm into. Super works though.

And while 213 may not be great as a stagger, it lets you go for an armor break + a bit of damage on Oki or the like without risking much at all or using meter.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
This is some really really good shit and it's shaping up to be one of the best guides on the site. We need more of this kind of thing, 100%. I'd love to contribute but I don't know any character well enough lol.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
This is a quality thread, @Chernyy Volk ! It's exactly the sort of content this website needs and it reminds me of the oldschool MK9 guides that I used to read. I particularly enjoyed the flowchart you made of the post F213 blockstring, you don't often see people put that sort of details in a guide so it's really cool to see it.

Keep up the good work!
Thank you man. I appreciate it. I'm also planning out the MU chart soon. Manta's bad MU's are pretty unorthodox for this game. He goes even with the top tiers and actually struggles against the niche more mid tier picks.
 
Wondering what most folks think are good ways to get out of the corner? Manta's pokes aren't phenomenal so when I'm really stuck I've been going yolo d1 ~4 and j3 stabbing my way out. Of course, I always forget pushblock is a thing...
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Wondering what most folks think are good ways to get out of the corner? Manta's pokes aren't phenomenal so when I'm really stuck I've been going yolo d1 ~4 and j3 stabbing my way out. Of course, I always forget pushblock is a thing...
Pushblock is your friend. It's really easy for Manta to take back the advantage post pushblock.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Are you sure he beats Catwoman? Can you play Semiiij/Rewind? I don't say that to be like super omg elitist, I just really believe they're the only 2 people on the planet playing that character correctly. I think it's probably even. They both play strong footsies and Manta doesn't let her jump like crazy, but she still out damages him and mb b3 is still a problem.

Edit: I also dunno if he goes even vs all the top tiers. Supergirl probably beats him imo. Black Adam is still hard imo even if he punishes black magic. I haven't grinded it vs a solid Red Hood, Darkseid or Deadshot so no comment on those.

I think Supergirl and Adam just outfootsie him and that's like all Manta is good at. He also doesn't have good answers to Supergirl's gaps because of his button speed.
 
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kcd117

Noob
Wondering what most folks think are good ways to get out of the corner? Manta's pokes aren't phenomenal so when I'm really stuck I've been going yolo d1 ~4 and j3 stabbing my way out. Of course, I always forget pushblock is a thing...
What I do sometimes against some characters is d1xx4 bf2 when I can counterpoke. It is a "gimmick" but unless they are looking for it they will probably try to poke you back if they blocked you, and you'll float over the poke and charge away to safety. If they get hit they will respect the followup which gives you room to float and get out of the corner. Jump back 1 bf2 also works good against jump happy characters. If you don't abuse it most characters don't have a way to chase you down without a read, so you should be good.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Are you sure he beats Catwoman? Can you play Semiiij/Rewind? I don't say that to be like super omg elitist, I just really believe they're the only 2 people on the planet playing that character correctly. I think it's probably even. They both play strong footsies and Manta doesn't let her jump like crazy, but she still out damages him and mb b3 is still a problem.

Edit: I also dunno if he goes even vs all the top tiers. Supergirl probably beats him imo. Black Adam is still hard imo even if he punishes black magic. I haven't grinded it vs a solid Red Hood, Darkseid or Deadshot so no comment on those.

I think Supergirl and Adam just outfootsie him and that's like all Manta is good at. He also doesn't have good answers to Supergirl's gaps because of his button speed.
I wish I could play Semiij. I agree with you on that front about people playing the character. I am FAIRLY sure Manta wins because he can lame her out. It's typically how the MU goes for me otherwise. I'm going to try to get some sets in with some of the supposedly better CW's off Discord and make sure my suspicion is correct. I'm just basing this off experience so far. I can't say I find CW a hard MU up to this point.

I've played very solid Red Hood's and Darkseid's. Red Hood gets suffocated by frame traps and his zoning's not very effective against teleport and instant air Superman and lunge is always b11 punishable, Darkseid has been too easy for me to just D2 on reaction everytime he goes for a setup because Manta's D2 is so good. Also Darkseid just gets oppressed on wakeup because you can do jump back j3, if he does a knee you just got 300 damage or so off a boot legged combo. As for Supergirl, I'm not sure what she has on paper that makes her beat him. It feels completely even to me. She can't challenge f213 on block with b1 because you'll just d1~laser her for it, her other options after blocking it aren't favorable, she gets mauled if a MB teleport ever gets blocked because you get iaj2~db2 punishes. I dunno, I'll have to lab it more. The characters I have the biggest problems with are characters you can't run his frame trap meta on like GL where b1 just goes through EVERYTHING.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I'm starting to add corner combos. Manta's corner game is garbo as far as combos go.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
It sounds extremely stupid, but I like characters with basic ass corner games. I have enough trouble managing the neutral. I dont want extra shit to do in the corner, lol.
 
My only issue with him so far is that you're pretty much forced to end every single combo in B11U3 - 4 - J3DB3, because ending in any other string compromises his damage output far too much. Sometimes it's nice to have some variance with your combo enders for setup purposes, but it feels like Manta loses too much to do this in comparison to other characters.

Apart from that he actually feels great to play. Hoping the above gets addressed in a future patch, but it probably won't happen.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
My only issue with him so far is that you're pretty much forced to end every single combo in B11U3 - 4 - J3DB3, because ending in any other string compromises his damage output far too much. Sometimes it's nice to have some variance with your combo enders for setup purposes, but it feels like Manta loses too much to do this in comparison to other characters.

Apart from that he actually feels great to play. Hoping the above gets addressed in a future patch, but it probably won't happen.
Manta does not need to be buffed. This would be a bad idea. The reason he's designed as he is is because his HKD ender (b12) allows him to stuff even most of the fully invincible wakeups in this game when he meaties with 21. It's a big deal. Some characters can't get up at all versus him.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I have added more clarification into the post b22~db2/3~db2/2d3~db2 situation section.
 
I'm starting to add corner combos. Manta's corner game is garbo as far as combos go.
After playing Red Hood extensively before taking to black, I'd have to agree. I've found though what he lacks in big combos is made up for in f213 pressure to keep them in corner and follow up with ray for chip. Once panic sets in, punish them on attempts to escape corner. Although I'm guaranteed to be playing at a lower level of skill. But it has yielded successful results
 
@Chernyy Volk

Dumb question. But are the D2 combos listed supposed to be his anti air combos, or are those just combos capable off of a raw grounded D2, or both? I'm going to try my hand at picking up Manta so I'm compiling a list of all of his combos into categories like mid screen, corner, anti air, ect. to better practice each scenario. Also great work on the guide so far! You have no idea how awesome it is to be able to read about what a character can do before actually picking them up. Tbh if it wasn't for this guide I would've probably passed on learning Manta. Thanks bro.