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Cheetah grievances

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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@karaokelove I had you pegged differently during the first week of Inj2; but now I am proud of you.
Ha, can't say I blame you. I still stand by my Batman thread, but can't blame anyone for writing me off as a scrub until they see my match footage (of which there is plenty in the Match Footage thread).
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Ha, can't say I blame you. I still stand by my Batman thread, but can't blame anyone for writing me off as a scrub until they see my match footage (of which there is plenty of the Match Footage thread).
It was more your profile posts about Cheetah being garbage tier :p
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Premium Supporter
It was more your profile posts about Cheetah being garbage tier :p
Oooh yeah, forgot about those. I think I just called her unviable, but without explanation. That was when I was playing and labbing the Batman MU. With so many Batman players in every tournament pool right now, I do have to concede that we won't be seeing any Cheetahs in top 8 anytime soon. If we do, feel free to blow me up.
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
IMO Cheetah:

+ has a great f3 especially when mb'd
+ is in no way bottom 5 with her tools
+ solid damage
* causes ragequits ;)
+ probably the most fun I've had playing a character in Injustice

- has poor neutral from most ranges and poor normal/string ranges
- very bad matchups vs popular characters
- coming from mostly Capcom games, dbf command grabs suck to perform on my end
- works much harder to get in than many characters, while being fairly easy to keep out

Someone already mentioned that they wish it required more thought to keep her out than for her to get in, and I fully agree. I also think you need a good secondary to cover her many bad mu's. Satisfying as hell to win with her though.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Ehh... I think most of the stuff you're asking for it not that much needed.

An easier command grab input is not a thing she needs, it would only make B2~high command grab easier but I mean... Why waste time with B2 with how inconsistent it is? They will never change that input so I would suggest practicing it, honestly I can land her command grab enders 10/10, it's not even hard at all and I am not any execution goddess by any means.

Primal range is so easy to hit-confirm and yeah, it does send your oponent flying fullscreen which sucks but if you want pressure you can soend a bar on it and get a D1/D3 on oki, once they respect that you can go for more options.


My advice to get more damage into set-ups would be to use J3 instead of J1, I don't think there's a reason to use J1 outside of some set-ups, combos and air-to-airs. J3 launches giving you a materless combo option with 112~command grab, it's actually plus on block, better trades and a better hitbox.

She doesn't need an advancing string... I can only imagine how busted she could become with a better neutral game, they gave her a harder time in the neutral for a reason.

Also, I read somewhere that her blood lunge should have a better priority and honestly I would hate that, that move could become very scrubby if it had a better priority... It's meant ti be used as a hard read but not a get in for free jail card... I think it's ok the way it is with it being very reactable and easy to AA.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
A s+ tier nerf is all she needs to be a top character imo. Batman's batarangs are stupid, the upward one can cover the air and the ground in front of him, you can't dash or jump, and if he meterburns it lol full combo on hit and insane pressure on block. Not to mention his stupid jump 2, you cannot antiair that on reaction, not bc it is too fast, simply bc it beats everything, even if you know it's coming you are more likely to get beat or trade trying to anti air that, it also jails into his infinite + frames pressure.

Superman was designed to be an auto pilot character, f23 is the ultimate neutral tool, a 8 frames mid advancing -2 launcher string that can lead to ridiculous dmg. armor breaking dmg boost trait that comes back too fast, great movement, zoning and anti zoning, safe advancing armor, -1 special, corner 50/50 otgs, high priority jump normals, very good wakeups that are hard to punish. I can't really see a weakness on supes rn.

Atrocitus is fair till he calls dex... than the neutral is over and he has like 12 seconds to mix you up with unsafe shit with no consequence, while building tons of meter.

Black adam's dmg is something else, I can't help but think he's got some dmg scalling bug. Safe mb launcher dive kick is also too much if you ask me, but his dmg seems to be the only really ridiculous thing about him.

Batman is a problem for Cheetah, every Cheetah knows that by now.
Atro if played with Napalm UpBreathe and ForwardBreathe to zone Cheetah out until he gets trait is tough imo too.

--
Black Adam is tough only because his damage is insanity, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the top two I mentioned.
--
And Superman? I actually don't think that's a bad matchup at all.
Try going into your pounce stance whenever you think he will F23 in footsie range, if he whiffs against you then you could immediately short range instant J1 to full combo punish him. You could do this even after he F23Breathes you. It will low profile from any range.

Trust me, this makes the matchup SUPER annoying for him and forces him to use other strings and buttons while you still have all your options. It's not free, but it's definitely not horrible.
 

bishbash

Magic as easy as 1 2 standing3
Why are people struggling with ending combos with her command grab? It's easy to buffer into her 112 string, easier to buffer into her 21 string, if you wanted you could even end a juggle with d1-bf1 which you should have down as a tick grab anyway. It's without a doubt the optimal finish if you're wanting to keep up pressure but not being able to execute it isn't an issue with the character
 

kcd117

Noob
Batman is a problem for Cheetah, every Cheetah knows that by now.
Atro if played with Napalm UpBreathe and ForwardBreathe to zone Cheetah out until he gets trait is tough imo too.

--
Black Adam is tough only because his damage is insanity, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the top two I mentioned.
--
And Superman? I actually don't think that's a bad matchup at all.
Try going into your pounce stance whenever you think he will F23 in footsie range, if he whiffs against you then you could immediately short range instant J1 to full combo punish him. You could do this even after he F23Breathes you. It will low profile from any range.

Trust me, this makes the matchup SUPER annoying for him and forces him to use other strings and buttons while you still have all your options. It's not free, but it's definitely not horrible.
Thanks for the tips I'll try that the next time I play a superman. I was messing with lunge to make him whiff f23 already but I was backdashing for the whiff punish instead of doing the close lunge, didn't realize you could hit him before f23 recovey by letting the blood lunge rock instead of cancelling it. My biggest issue with this matchup is not only the neutral, but every other aspect of it. d3 is so inconsistent since it randomly whiffs on supes when he is walking. On oki D3 whiffs on rising grab and you don't recover fast enough to punish his landing frames most of the time. F3 second hit also whiffs if you don't space it perfectly, the punch wake up beats d3 and all of her normal options free, and if he meterburns it he can break the armor on your mbf3, so you dont really get to pressure him a lot on wakeup unless you are in he corner, and even then, a single mistimed f3 and he is out and you have your back against the wall now. Supes on the other hand can otg you and make you guess which side is he gonna hit you whitout the threat of a wakeup attack, you guess wrong twice in the corner and you are dead, you guess right and you have to hope for his divebomb not to land outside the range of standing 1 so you can get a weak punish. I just feel that he beats cheetah everywhere in the screen, still trying to come up with something to make that matchup less difficult.
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
lmfao cheetah is very good, what is this? lol

the only thing she lacks is neutral, thats it.
She lacks neutral in a game where neutral is king. That is major.

And to whoever said Cheetah would be busted with an advancing string, Robin must be all types of broken according to you.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Oooh yeah, forgot about those. I think I just called her unviable, but without explanation. That was when I was playing and labbing the Batman MU. With so many Batman players in every tournament pool right now, I do have to concede that we won't be seeing any Cheetahs in top 8 anytime soon. If we do, feel free to blow me up.
Didn't Noobe just make top 8 at CB?

EDIT: Nvm. Looks like he got 9th.
 

Osty

Noob
I should maybe requote my other message. To stating I don't think she can compete. I definitely don't think she is trash or bottom tier. She just lacks a few things that would make her amazing. I was mainly looking on other people's inputs on their scenarios, but it doesn't sound like you guys deal with different situations than what I am already currently doing. I would like to watch some streams of people playing cheetah, but I haven't seen anyone streaming her all that much. I will occasionally see yungmonster stream his cheetah. Anyone else stream cheetah?
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
A s+ tier nerf is all she needs to be a top character imo. Batman's batarangs are stupid, the upward one can cover the air and the ground in front of him, you can't dash or jump, and if he meterburns it lol full combo on hit and insane pressure on block. Not to mention his stupid jump 2, you cannot antiair that on reaction, not bc it is too fast, simply bc it beats everything, even if you know it's coming you are more likely to get beat or trade trying to anti air that, it also jails into his infinite + frames pressure.

Superman was designed to be an auto pilot character, f23 is the ultimate neutral tool, a 8 frames mid advancing -2 launcher string that can lead to ridiculous dmg. armor breaking dmg boost trait that comes back too fast, great movement, zoning and anti zoning, safe advancing armor, -1 special, corner 50/50 otgs, high priority jump normals, very good wakeups that are hard to punish. I can't really see a weakness on supes rn.

Atrocitus is fair till he calls dex... than the neutral is over and he has like 12 seconds to mix you up with unsafe shit with no consequence, while building tons of meter.

Black adam's dmg is something else, I can't help but think he's got some dmg scalling bug. Safe mb launcher dive kick is also too much if you ask me, but his dmg seems to be the only really ridiculous thing about him.
Pushblocking Atro's Dex mixups is huge. He loses trait time and gets you more room to work with.

That being said I think he wrecks Cheetah. She's still really good though.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I've been playing against cheetah a lot, f3 is a very strong neutral tool especially if the other character has shitty reach
 
Anyone who's "afraid" of cheetahs advance, dash ins or f3 can just throw out safe moves to check those. At certain close ranges, there's no reason to fear cheetah.

You think a f3 is coming or you see it, just d2. You been jailed into d3? Backdash or push block sort out any problems.

This game has a broad problem with people being able to sit on a life lead and walk away like it's sfxt all over again. Cheetah has a problem where she can't chase people down in non obvious ways, which is ironic in a tragic way.

Anyone who says dbf is easy is under 30.
The game has input problems. You go past multiple moves to put in the command, it's dumb.
The input window for putting in dbf during combos is smaller than out as you have less time to meet the cancel Windows of strings. If you can get past that hurdle,I guess it's easy.

Also, the recovery on ba and b's dive kicks is minimal, cheetahs is stupid long in comparison and rolls you into range for a punish and you can't even choose the angle. It's a great move, but it could be less stupid
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Anyone who's "afraid" of cheetahs advance, dash ins or f3 can just throw out safe moves to check those. At certain close ranges, there's no reason to fear cheetah.

You think a f3 is coming or you see it, just d2. You been jailed into d3? Backdash or push block sort out any problems.

This game has a broad problem with people being able to sit on a life lead and walk away like it's sfxt all over again. Cheetah has a problem where she can't chase people down in non obvious ways, which is ironic in a tragic way.

Anyone who says dbf is easy is under 30.
The game has input problems. You go past multiple moves to put in the command, it's dumb.
The input window for putting in dbf during combos is smaller than out as you have less time to meet the cancel Windows of strings. If you can get past that hurdle,I guess it's easy.

Also, the recovery on ba and b's dive kicks is minimal, cheetahs is stupid long in comparison and rolls you into range for a punish and you can't even choose the angle. It's a great move, but it could be less stupid
You can't backdash F3 into D3 tho, it jails.

A good tool in the neutral is instant air divebomb IMO, people are so afraid of her sweep that they will get hit by the mix-up a lot. Don't overuse it tho

112~command grab is extremely easy to do due to the long string, B2 is the only hard one honestly and idk why command grabs have those inputs either but NRS is not changing them at all, people have been asking for a change for years and nothing... I don't think it's bad at all.

Well, if someone is walking away they are also cornering themselves which is great for her.
 
You back dash/pushblock the f3, or after the d3.

Backing away gives you more time to react to cheetahs approaches and lets you safety to apply counter pressure
 

Osty

Noob
Why are people struggling with ending combos with her command grab? It's easy to buffer into her 112 string, easier to buffer into her 21 string, if you wanted you could even end a juggle with d1-bf1 which you should have down as a tick grab anyway. It's without a doubt the optimal finish if you're wanting to keep up pressure but not being able to execute it isn't an issue with the character
You sir are incorrect as the command grabs don't come out on a 112 string due to push block or peeps getting hit with an overhead causing you to whiff you command grab and getting punished in doing so.
 

Osty

Noob
You can't backdash F3 into D3 tho, it jails.

A good tool in the neutral is instant air divebomb IMO, people are so afraid of her sweep that they will get hit by the mix-up a lot. Don't overuse it tho

112~command grab is extremely easy to do due to the long string, B2 is the only hard one honestly and idk why command grabs have those inputs either but NRS is not changing them at all, people have been asking for a change for years and nothing... I don't think it's bad at all.

Well, if someone is walking away they are also cornering themselves which is great for her.
WHY are people saying 112 into command grab works.... It doesn't. It works if you have land a f3 or a ji3 on an airborne opponent. If this works and doesnt whiff I would love to see the footage. Is this a stall after the 112, and hoping the opponent doesn't d1 check you after this string? Personally I think this is terrible advice. 12 command grab works while opponent is blocking and inputs have to be chosen on if the opponent is ducking or standing on which command grab to choose.

If the 12 lands and hits the opponent your command grabs DON'T work. They work when the opponent has blocked the string.
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
She has a +10 overhead advancing launcher and one of the stupidest d3's in the game. DON'T GET ME STARTED.

But all in all? She's meh. Mid tier, exactly where every character should be 'theoretically.'
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Premium Supporter
WHY are people saying 112 into command grab works.... It doesn't. It works if you have land a f3 or a ji3 on an airborne opponent. If this works and doesnt whiff I would love to see the footage. Is this a stall after the 112, and hoping the opponent doesn't d1 check you after this string? Personally I think this is terrible advice. 12 command grab works while opponent is blocking and inputs have to be chosen on if the opponent is ducking or standing on which command grab to choose.

If the 12 lands and hits the opponent your command grabs DON'T work. They work when the opponent has blocked the string.
It's only after a launcher that it will connect. On the ground, you want to do 112 and then confirm into either db2 or bf3.