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Cheetah grievances

kcd117

Noob
I feel like this thread should of been along for advice instead of pointing out things that she doesn't really need. She's not even decent, she's really really good.

I predict you're going to feel so silly once the game develops and you realize how amazing she is.

The only and I mean ONLY match ups I'd consider not using her for are Batman and Atro.
She actually seems to do good against atrocitus, batman and superman are the only characters that give her real trouble, but that's not bc she is lacking anything, they just have to much honestly.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
f3 can be just blown through, on reaction.
In the heat of the moment it's very difficult for 99% of players to react to even slow moves like a F3. If I'm a player that predicts a F3 is coming, do I:
  • Block it on reaction because it's ~30 frames, after which Cheetah is left pretty + but she only gets chip and maybe a followup.
  • Try to blow through it which can cost me a full F3 combo if I mess up.
The second situation is not ideal for nearly all players. Say you have a character with a 6-frame normal and Cheetah's F3 is 30 frames (not sure if it is exactly but let's say 30 for this example's sake).
  • With pretty good reactions someone can see the move coming within 20 frames, which is already impressive in the middle of a heated match.
  • The fastest normal they have is 6 frames, so 30 - (20+6) = 4 frames left to do the input.
  • Your hand has 4/60th of a second (game runs at 60 frames per second), which is 0.067 seconds to do the input for the attack. This is pretty much undoable.
You're not going to blow through Cheetah's F3, unless you are a reaction god.

If you're doing dbf, you've already done db, so why would you do the extra f?
DBF is just practice, it really is. Why is it like this? I don't know, it's a fighting game thing. What I do know is that probably everyone has struggled with DBF at some point, and they can all deal with it just by practicing. It's hard at first, not so hard after even a short practice time.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
She actually seems to do good against atrocitus, batman and superman are the only characters that give her real trouble, but that's not bc she is lacking anything, they just have to much honestly.
Superman I feel like is manageable once you make the threat of low profiling and punishing f23 with pounce.

Batman we all know, i dont need to explain.

And Atro was fine for me until I fought a few Atros that realized that spamming breathe from mid distance literally shuts down all her options. Breathe is super safew too so it can't be baited like a d2 and can't be punished with f3. If the Atro knows Cheetahs ranges then I'm not kidding, it's tough. That and the match itself because him zoning you out until he gets trait then he mixes. He doesn't have to do anything except breathe and trait mixups to win. It's not unstoppable but it's uphill.

If anyone finds a way through this Atro strategy against Cheetah then I'm all ears.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
In the heat of the moment it's very difficult for 99% of players to react to even slow moves like a F3. If I'm a player that predicts a F3 is coming, do I:
  • Block it on reaction because it's ~30 frames, after which Cheetah is left pretty + but she only gets chip and maybe a followup.
  • Try to blow through it which can cost me a full F3 combo if I mess up.
The second situation is not ideal for nearly all players. Say you have a character with a 6-frame normal and Cheetah's F3 is 30 frames (not sure if it is exactly but let's say 30 for this example's sake).
  • With pretty good reactions someone can see the move coming within 20 frames, which is already impressive in the middle of a heated match.
  • The fastest normal they have is 6 frames, so 30 - (20+6) = 4 frames left to do the input.
  • Your hand has 4/60th of a second (game runs at 60 frames per second), which is 0.067 seconds to do the input for the attack. This is pretty much undoable.
You're not going to blow through Cheetah's F3, unless you are a reaction god.
This. I remember the bill of reacting to Nightwing's 20+ frame 50/50 being sold. Everyone saying how easy it was to do, but noone would ever do it.
 

Osty

Noob
I sorta agree that she is pretty bad. Feel like I have wasted a lot of time on her. You are all talking about mb f3.... yeah well if your opponent know the match up, they know that cheetah has nothing meaningful outside of her overheads. There are mb wakeup in this game that have the ability to break a timed mbf3. Deadshots knee and darkseids knee have the ability to do this. Trying to get a majority of your damage though ji3 combos or f3 feels very limited on options compared to the rest of the cast. Tick throw are possible, but can be unreliable.

Almost better to wakeup with the grab. She seems clunky, and I have started to lose hope.

I have solely played this character since launch. Rest of the cast has combo strings as reliable punishers. We have 332, 22, (cant tell you how frustrating it is going for a punish with a 112 and they just duck and d1 poke you. It is actually laughable.) mid starters ending in a db 2 launcher. In which I guess we can go for another ji3 off a lunge, and if that isn't predictable... We could also dash in and Back dash out hoping for something we could possibly punish (although her range is garbo)..... but than all that hard work of getting in has now been totally negated and you are back at square one. Also, with this being a projectile heavy game..... her game plan once in can be extremely frustrating. I spar a lot with friends, and don't really play a bunch of ranked matches, which would actually probably benefit her as you would be able to get a lot of unsuspecting victims. Goes back to your opponent knowing what she is capable of. After that, she is extremely easy to bully.

By all means if you have suggestions let me know, but I haven't found much that leads to her being good competitively.. so many other characters have a much more solid toolset than she currently has, and realistically I don't really see that changing.
 

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
Cheetah is fantastic i love playing her with all her mind games. F3 is godlike, dbf1 is easy with pratice in every use imo, and she doesnt need a launcher imo her damage is still great. I feel like she could even be a higher tier then we think later on.

Also no one gives noobe enough credit we can say all day these pros werent rdy for the matchup fully, but her f3 and d3 were fully effective, along with her pounces. Of course the meta will evolve but, i feel thats when she will shrine brightest imo.

(Could be wrong just my take)
 
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kcd117

Noob
Superman I feel like is manageable once you make the threat of low profiling and punishing f23 with pounce.

Batman we all know, i dont need to explain.

And Atro was fine for me until I fought a few Atros that realized that spamming breathe from mid distance literally shuts down all her options. Breathe is super safew too so it can't be baited like a d2 and can't be punished with f3. If the Atro knows Cheetahs ranges then I'm not kidding, it's tough. That and the match itself because him zoning you out until he gets trait then he mixes. He doesn't have to do anything except breathe and trait mixups to win. It's not unstoppable but it's uphill.

If anyone finds a way through this Atro strategy against Cheetah then I'm all ears.
I can see it being tough if he can keep her out when e doesn't have dex out, I know you can dive the napalm if he whiffs it just outside of sweep range, you can d3 as well if you are close enough, I'll take it to the lab later and check her options. When dex is out you have to armor and pushblock a lot, and d3 his gaps so you waste most of his trait, keep pressuring on knockdown and always punish his wake ups, I feel like if you can keep the pressure going and stay on offense most of the time he is not able to get much of his game going and you have a better shot at winning the match.
 

Osty

Noob
Superman I feel like is manageable once you make the threat of low profiling and punishing f23 with pounce.

Batman we all know, i dont need to explain.

And Atro was fine for me until I fought a few Atros that realized that spamming breathe from mid distance literally shuts down all her options. Breathe is super safew too so it can't be baited like a d2 and can't be punished with f3. If the Atro knows Cheetahs ranges then I'm not kidding, it's tough. That and the match itself because him zoning you out until he gets trait then he mixes. He doesn't have to do anything except breathe and trait mixups to win. It's not unstoppable but it's uphill.

If anyone finds a way through this Atro strategy against Cheetah then I'm all ears.
A good atrocitus makes it extremely hard because if they play around cat and are shielding appropriately with cat out. Cheetah can't do much. Just have to make the most out of the f3/ji3 that you do land. Because believe it our not just walking back makes it extremely tough to open up atrocitus as you still have to be careful of blood tornadoes and his far forward advancing strings. He can walk backwards and keep you in check until he gets a new cat. And it is rinse and repeat.
 

Osty

Noob
I can see it being tough if he can keep her out when e doesn't have dex out, I know you can dive the napalm if he whiffs it just outside of sweep range, you can d3 as well if you are close enough, I'll take it to the lab later and check her options. When dex is out you have to armor and pushblock a lot, and d3 his gaps so you waste most of his trait, keep pressuring on knockdown and always punish his wake ups, I feel like if you can keep the pressure going and stay on offense most of the time he is not able to get much of his game going and you have a better shot at winning the match.
You also have to remember the amount of meter atrocitus gains with his cat out. Cheetah doesn't gain much at all from his offense. He gets a ton of meter from all the dot breaths and maybe the cat shield he gets also gives him meter. I don't feel like cheetah can compete with the amount of meter he is able to gain. You can pressure him hard without cat, but he has a ton of tools to keep you in check imo. I did get the real master achievement off of an atrocitus however which I was pretty pumped about.
 

Osty

Noob
I can see it being tough if he can keep her out when e doesn't have dex out, I know you can dive the napalm if he whiffs it just outside of sweep range, you can d3 as well if you are close enough, I'll take it to the lab later and check her options. When dex is out you have to armor and pushblock a lot, and d3 his gaps so you waste most of his trait, keep pressuring on knockdown and always punish his wake ups, I feel like if you can keep the pressure going and stay on offense most of the time he is not able to get much of his game going and you have a better shot at winning the match.
Also in response to this. You can't rely on d3 to negate his dex pressure. As if he is shielding himself appropriately with dex. It eats the d3 on his gaps. There isn't much to get a poke in during this time.
 
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Osty

Noob
Cheetah is fantastic i love playing her with all her mind games. F3 is godlike, dbf1 is easy with pratice in every use imo, and she doesnt need a launcher imo her damage is still great. I feel like she could even be a higher tier then we think later on.

Also no one gives noobe enough credit we can say all day these pros werent rdy for the matchup fully, but her f3 and d3 were fully effective, along with her pounces. Of course the meta will evolve but, i feel thats when she will shrine brightest imo.

(Could be wrong just my take)
She is definitely been my favorite character so far. I hope this is the case. Just feel like when people understand the matchup she has a tough time doing things. I appreciate your optimism, I am currently in need of a lot of it. Lol.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
I sorta agree that she is pretty bad. Feel like I have wasted a lot of time on her. You are all talking about mb f3.... yeah well if your opponent know the match up, they know that cheetah has nothing meaningful outside of her overheads. There are mb wakeup in this game that have the ability to break a timed mbf3. Deadshots knee and darkseids knee have the ability to do this. Trying to get a majority of your damage though ji3 combos or f3 feels very limited on options compared to the rest of the cast. Tick throw are possible, but can be unreliable.

Almost better to wakeup with the grab. She seems clunky, and I have started to lose hope.

I have solely played this character since launch. Rest of the cast has combo strings as reliable punishers. We have 332, 22, (cant tell you how frustrating it is going for a punish with a 112 and they just duck and d1 poke you. It is actually laughable.) mid starters ending in a db 2 launcher. In which I guess we can go for another ji3 off a lunge, and if that isn't predictable... We could also dash in and Back dash out hoping for something we could possibly punish (although her range is garbo)..... but than all that hard work of getting in has now been totally negated and you are back at square one. Also, with this being a projectile heavy game..... her game plan once in can be extremely frustrating. I spar a lot with friends, and don't really play a bunch of ranked matches, which would actually probably benefit her as you would be able to get a lot of unsuspecting victims. Goes back to your opponent knowing what she is capable of. After that, she is extremely easy to bully.

By all means if you have suggestions let me know, but I haven't found much that leads to her being good competitively.. so many other characters have a much more solid toolset than she currently has, and realistically I don't really see that changing.
I wish I could see you play to see what the issue is, but im serious when I say Cheetah is much better than you're giving her credit for.

Every dash in is a mixup if you have meter because you could use the fear of mbf3 to get free mixups. In some match ups you literally don't have to jump much at all unless on Oki.

Once she's in her Oki is disgusting vs most of the cast too so life bars could drain fast. I play some very respectable tournament players and I'll be the first to say that she isn't just gimmicks and surprise tactics.

Also, 112mbb3 combos. Mb-cancelling strings is 2 meters bit it's crazy damage. And don't forget that you could punish really unsafe stuff with b2dbf1 or just raw dbf1.
 

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
She is definitely been my favorite character so far. I hope this is the case. Just feel like when people understand the matchup she has a tough time doing things. I appreciate your optimism, I am currently in need of a lot of it. Lol.
Look man haha i feel where you guyz are coming from with all your statements totally. Alot of chars feel like they can force there will on you way easier, but im addicted to the long set mind games im having it feels rewarding and deep imo
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
I think she's awesome and rewarding. Definitely my main. I just want her tool set to reflect what other characters can do. If I have to use my brain so should you or if you feel like you shouldn't have to... why should I? Nerf the braindead stuff or give me braindead stuff.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
I think she's awesome and rewarding. Definitely my main. I just want her tool set to reflect what other characters can do. If I have to use my brain so should you or if you feel like you shouldn't have to... why should I? Nerf the braindead stuff or give me braindead stuff.
Out of curiosity, what would you consider braindead? I think this game is pretty honest compared to anything NRS has made.
 

Osty

Noob
I wish I could see you play to see what the issue is, but im serious when I say Cheetah is much better than you're giving her credit for.

Every dash in is a mixup if you have meter because you could use the fear of mbf3 to get free mixups. In some match ups you literally don't have to jump much at all unless on Oki.

Once she's in her Oki is disgusting vs most of the cast too so life bars could drain fast. I play some very respectable tournament players and I'll be the first to say that she isn't just gimmicks and surprise tactics.

Also, 112mbb3 combos. Mb-cancelling strings is 2 meters bit it's crazy damage. And don't forget that you could punish really unsafe stuff with b2dbf1 or just raw dbf1.
I have only played cheetah sinch launch. Her damage is crazy, my downfall is maybe playing mainly friends. They know the weaknesses she has. I have explored alot of her options. She has different possible ways to utilize her tick throws. I have started to move away from the s1 starters as they can all just be ducked. Her mixup game is crazy. Where I struggle is I feel like she doesn't bring alot of the same tools that other characters in this game bring. Her low profile concept is extremely useful as you can d3 pretty much everything from a crossup ji2 on Batman to deadshots low rifle bullets to fates orb for great position.

All I am saying is jump ins from blood lunge or even using it on blocked strings to escape punish. Like 332 into a lunge cancel. And than bait back in is extremely nice. You can also do a crossup dive from any lunge cancel into full combo. Although this isnt something you can keep doing it will usually net you some amazing damage if it is done unsuspectingly. What she lacks for me is a meaningful punish for someone to respect you. Sure she has ji3 and f3... You land 12 when opponent isn't blocking only thing that will land is the throw. If they block the high string you can dbf the throw and get some crazy damage. Her damage comes from being able to land her throws. Now I have played very little bane. His throw options are much more vast than anything cheetah brings. I actually do so much better with bane..... that is extremely disappointing to me as I have spent weeks of practice and lab time on cheetah.

My mind concept at this point in time is to pocket another character as her toolset doesn't match the others.
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
Out of curiosity, what would you consider braindead? I think this game is pretty honest compared to anything NRS has made.
Batarang +25
BA safe launching full screen divekick
Supes f23 breath
Atro safe two mixes in same string w dex
Aqua trait mid combo
Safe/plus invincible wakeups

Just off the top of my head. There's more I'm sure but I'd be here all day trying to think of them.
 

Osty

Noob
I wish I could see you play to see what the issue is, but im serious when I say Cheetah is much better than you're giving her credit for.

Every dash in is a mixup if you have meter because you could use the fear of mbf3 to get free mixups. In some match ups you literally don't have to jump much at all unless on Oki.

Once she's in her Oki is disgusting vs most of the cast too so life bars could drain fast. I play some very respectable tournament players and I'll be the first to say that she isn't just gimmicks and surprise tactics.

Also, 112mbb3 combos. Mb-cancelling strings is 2 meters bit it's crazy damage. And don't forget that you could punish really unsafe stuff with b2dbf1 or just raw dbf1.
Bounce cancels are really nice. I probably don't use them enough. I do use them, but sometimes I feel like 2 mb f3 is better. I often get b2 from ducking and it comes out as the stupid upward claw. I will use s2 or a d1 into grab. Idk if you have had this issue. It has happened to me alot. I don't really understand it, but not the same damage output as you getting a mb throw out of the deal. I have tried to trade out inputs that could be confused in this manner.
 

Osty

Noob
I wish I could see you play to see what the issue is, but im serious when I say Cheetah is much better than you're giving her credit for.

Every dash in is a mixup if you have meter because you could use the fear of mbf3 to get free mixups. In some match ups you literally don't have to jump much at all unless on Oki.

Once she's in her Oki is disgusting vs most of the cast too so life bars could drain fast. I play some very respectable tournament players and I'll be the first to say that she isn't just gimmicks and surprise tactics.

Also, 112mbb3 combos. Mb-cancelling strings is 2 meters bit it's crazy damage. And don't forget that you could punish really unsafe stuff with b2dbf1 or just raw dbf1.
Also thanks for the responses. I appreciate the input. Maybe I will hook up my console to my pc and record some games through twitch or something. I am always looking to improve so valuable information I will take. Criticism is also welcomed as it is only way to improve. Everyone has to improve at something, even the best.
 

Osty

Noob
Lmao, I know... I am posting from my cell phone. It autocorrected dex to sex for some reason. I edited the post.

Although, when he does have dex out he pretty much is having his way with you. Maybe we should requote this. Lol
 

kcd117

Noob
Batarang +25
BA safe launching full screen divekick
Supes f23 breath
Atro safe two mixes in same string w dex
Aqua trait mid combo
Safe/plus invincible wakeups

Just off the top of my head. There's more I'm sure but I'd be here all day trying to think of them.
A s+ tier nerf is all she needs to be a top character imo. Batman's batarangs are stupid, the upward one can cover the air and the ground in front of him, you can't dash or jump, and if he meterburns it lol full combo on hit and insane pressure on block. Not to mention his stupid jump 2, you cannot antiair that on reaction, not bc it is too fast, simply bc it beats everything, even if you know it's coming you are more likely to get beat or trade trying to anti air that, it also jails into his infinite + frames pressure.

Superman was designed to be an auto pilot character, f23 is the ultimate neutral tool, a 8 frames mid advancing -2 launcher string that can lead to ridiculous dmg. armor breaking dmg boost trait that comes back too fast, great movement, zoning and anti zoning, safe advancing armor, -1 special, corner 50/50 otgs, high priority jump normals, very good wakeups that are hard to punish. I can't really see a weakness on supes rn.

Atrocitus is fair till he calls dex... than the neutral is over and he has like 12 seconds to mix you up with unsafe shit with no consequence, while building tons of meter.

Black adam's dmg is something else, I can't help but think he's got some dmg scalling bug. Safe mb launcher dive kick is also too much if you ask me, but his dmg seems to be the only really ridiculous thing about him.