General/Other Characters who can backdash B2,3,F2

[Tony at Home]

Look at post #31

That answers the part of "Why would I backdash these initially negative strings?"- grammar error in the OP.

But it still doesn't answer the "why would I backdash if I can only backdash the overhead and not the low option of a d1?"

Because the reason I would want to backdash is to get out of a 50/50. But if I can only backdash the overhead, but not the low- then backdashing is the equivalent of blocking high... in which case I should just block high because he's plenty negative on block after his b2 followups.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

@LtLuthor backdashing can be done after a j3 is blocked as well, but all backdashes can be option selected by DS and I can see ur point as well. Either way, community needs to be aware of things like this.

 

[Youphemism]

But it still doesn't answer the "why would I backdash if I can only backdash the overhead and not the low option of a d1?"

Because the reason I would want to backdash is to get out of a 50/50. But if I can only backdash the overhead, but not the low- then backdashing is the equivalent of blocking high... in which case I should just block high because he's plenty negative on block after his b2 followups.

It's just to see which characters have to deal with the 50/50 at all. But this is mainly to do with doing b23f2 to an opponent after the string noted on hit, some can backdash it some can't.

 

[ryublaze]

I don't understand any of this at all- I think there's some grammar issues- or maybe something isn't explained right?



OK, so F3 is positive on block and leaves me open to Deathstroke's safe 50/50 against Lex, so that's definitely something I would like to backdash... but...

Why would I want to backdash after that last one? It's punishable. And he's negative after D1/B2,2 xx MB Sword Spin so why would I backdash that either? Hell, I can punish MB Sword Spin on block.

You backdash after a blocked F3 so you can whiff punish b1u2, and some characters can whiff punish b23f2. The D1/B22 xx MB Sword Spin is on hit, so if I hit you with D1/B22 xx MB Sword Spin dash Sword Flip, I get to dash up twice and either do d1 or b23f2. Some characters can backdash the b23f2 and get a full punish.

Now I'm even more confused. So this thread is about backdashing an overhead option after DS is + on block after an F3, it feels like the reason I'd do that is to avoid a mixup.

IF I can backdash a b22 followup after a blocked F3, but can't punish it and risk getting caught by a low-hitting option, how is this functionally any different than just blocking high? I'm still guessing high at the risk of getting hit low, I'm not able to punish something I would normally wouldn't be able to punish, I'm not getting any additional frame advantage than I would just blocking (he's negative on block after any overhead option other than F3).... Why the hell am I backdashing if it isn't of any more benefit to me than just blocking high?

Again, you backdash to avoid b1u2 (the low option). Some characters can backdash to avoid b23f2 (overhead). If you're not backdashing, you're giving DS a safe 50/50 rather than an unsafe 33/33/33.

**EDIT**

To be more specific about my situation, this thread says Lex can backdash the b22 option after a blocked F3, but can't punish it. Given my best punisher is a godlike 6 framer, if THAT can't punish it that means Deathstroke isn't at a relative frame advantage that is more than -6 after a succesful backdash. And b22 is -6 on block, so it really seems to me like Lex gains absolutely jack squat for backdashing in this situation as opposed to blocking the overhead option if I think he's going for it. It would be a different story if this also got me out of a d1- but apparently this isn't the case.

The reason why Lex can't punish b22 (on whiff) is because of his long backdash. If you don't backdash, you're letting me get away with b23f2 (meterless and sends you fullscreen where Lex doesn't want to be against DS) and b1u2 (meterless and does more damage than d1 sword spin).

 

[dribirut]

Wait so what's the 33/33/33.. I think it's so dumb the opponent can buffer a back dash on a frame trap and it will just cause then to block..

 

[Crathen]

Wait so what's the 33/33/33.. I think it's so dumb the opponent can buffer a back dash on a frame trap and it will just cause then to block..

The 3 way mixup is Overhead / Low / Punish backdash.

Also that happens only when the frametrap is a true blockstring ( meaning there's no frame gap ) and that's why lows > overhead in that kind of situation, wich doesn't happen too often outside of f3 / j3 ( unless you have MMH MB orb lol )

 

[dribirut]

The 3 way mixup is Overhead / Low / Punish backdash.

Also that happens only when the frametrap is a true blockstring ( meaning there's no frame gap ) and that's why lows > overhead in that kind of situation, wich doesn't happen too often outside of f3 / j3 ( unless you have MMH MB orb lol )

Yea then d1/ b2 would be best option but that's not really a 33/33/33.. You don't have to back dash and just guess the 50/50

 

[Crathen]

Yea then d1/ b2 would be best option but that's not really a 33/33/33.. You don't have to back dash and just guess the 50/50

You don't have to backdash but it's an option so it's still a 3 way mixup.

Example: Backdashing > low / overhead ( depends on how good the backdash is )
Blocking > punishing backdash
Overhead > blocking low
Low > blocking high

1 of your options evades the 50/50 guess = backdashing
1 of your options still makes you having guess high or low = blocking
1 of your options can "punish" stuffing a backdash = blocking

You may not be stuck in choosing wich way to block but it's what actually happens when you get an option with a reward for the opponent trying to punish a backdash ( meaning blocking and reacting to what they are doing ) and one to avoid the 50/50 ( in most cases safe on block ) guess , it's kind of an unsafer 3 way guessing game.

I can't word it better atm.

 

[ryublaze]

Yea then d1/ b2 would be best option but that's not really a 33/33/33.. You don't have to back dash and just guess the 50/50

using d1 or b1u2 depends on your playstyle...for me I'd rather take the risk and get 10% more off my low option and not burn a bar of meter, unless i have significant lifelead and don't have to take a risk.

d1 sword spin combo = 20%, costs 1 bar, safe and can't be backdashed
b1u2 combo = 29-33%, costs no bars, unsafe if they backdash

it's true on characters like Joker, Deathstroke does get a 50/50 if he chooses to use d1/b23f2. BUT if that DS player thinks you won't backdash he might start doing b1u2 instead of d1, then that's when you start to backdash. It really depends on what both players are thinking.