What's new

General/Other - Liu Kang Changes for liu kang in the next patch.

Yo, as most of you may know, our character has always been a victim for the nerf hammer in mkx. What changes would you like to have for the potential final patch?

My changes:
Universal-
8fr d1
F21 0 on block

Dragons fire-
Mb flying bicycle kick plus 1 on block (if liu keeps his 9fr d1)

Dualist (im sure more of you can touch up on this)-
Mb bicycle kick overhead for dualist. Exactly like how it is in dragons fire



Let the juices flow.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
He got an 8 frame d1 in the last patch, the only thing he need now is for bicycle kick/ punches to be bf4 to make reactions easier as well as being able to mb bicycle kicks like in dragon's fire
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
I definitely agree with these. Short and simple, we know liu doesnt need too much. They nerfed him,buffed everyones pokes and gave him nothing to compensate for all his nerfs. 8f d1 or meterburn fk being +1 would be good. F21 would be a nice luxury change. These are the only things id change about liu
 
I definitely agree with these. Short and simple, we know liu doesnt need too much. They nerfed him,buffed everyones pokes and gave him nothing to compensate for all his nerfs. 8f d1 or meterburn fk being +1 would be good. F21 would be a nice luxury change. These are the only things id change about liu
I definetely agree with the changes because Liu kang needs buff!
 
All Solar Flare projectiles drain one bar of energy from the opponent on hit. (energy = stamina for running)

- All Solar Flare projectile types drain half of a bar of energy from the opponent on block.

B,F+1(Dark Sphere) absorbs one projectile. So you would need two orbs to stop two projectiles.

EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with.

- EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) no longer counts as a projectile and cannot be negated or absorbed by any other projectile based attack.

- All Soul Spheres now have a slightly increased hitbox on the explosion. This would give him better AA setups and consistently hit small hurtbox characters.

-Stance Switch recovery frames reduced. This would allow for easier bnbs and give him slightly better block pressure.

-Healing move to be removed from the game completely and traded for a Dualist costume

Wishful buff:
-D,B,F+4 (Command Grab)
Yes a command grab that has little range and only ticks from two strings. +5 on hit, 13 frames on startup. He needs it!

Normals:
All mids should no longer be able to be low profiled.

Flame fist: WindMill punches connect more consistently on characters like jax
 

PapaRegadetho

All hail emperor Liucifer Kang!
1,1 to be high, mid again. Make the second hit have less pushback on block so it won't whiff randomly like it does for over freaking year now. This is a MUST fix, since four of Liu's strings don't work, especially 1,1,3 , that string is almost useless. F44 second hit whiffs on HITCONFIRM! NRS PLS!

D1 to be 8 frames, U4 to be a high and less startup frames, maybe 10-ish.
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
My changes:
Universal-
8fr d1
Agreed.

F21 0 on block
He does NOT neeed his F2,1 to be 0 on block because it already is a good stagger and it would be super plus using Fireball Run Cancels in the Dragon's Fire variation.
at this moment: F2,1 FBRC = +4 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +8.
F2,1 being 0 on block would make F2,1 FBRC = +8 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +12

Dragons fire-
Mb flying bicycle kick plus 1 on block (if liu keeps his 9fr d1)
Naah. Flying Kick MB is a very good toll to get on your opponents face. If you want to end your pressure being plus, use S1 which is +2, or use 1,1,1 which is +1, or use D3 which is +1, or use S4 or 4,4 which is +2; and will you save you meter to do breaker, better zoning...

Dualist (im sure more of you can touch up on this)-
Mb bicycle kick overhead for dualist. Exactly like how it is in dragons fire
Meter burning bicycle kick into a launcher in Dualist does not make sense because that is a buff that does not fit the Dualist variation. Dualist needs buffs on his tools that are not working very well - healing, orbs and fireballs.

would like to also see his f44 hitbox issues mainly fixed also
try when in practice the distance u start at. do f44 u will see first hit will hit then second hit will whiff and they can block. its harsh cos hit confirm into bk and they can block
Oh yeah, this definitely needs to be fixed.

@YOMI REO have proposed very good buffs for Dualist that are very fair and logical, IMO.

Dualist:
- All Solar Flare projectiles drain one bar of energy from the opponent on hit. (energy = stamina for running)
- All Solar Flare projectile types drain half of a bar of energy from the opponent on block.
- Yin (D,B+3) now also replenishes Liu Kang's stamina bar to full after the ending animation.
- Instant air Soul Spheres have recovery reduced.
- EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with.
- EX B,F+1+BLK (Dark Sphere) no longer counts as a projectile and cannot be negated or absorbed by any other projectile based attack.
- All Soul Spheres now have a slightly increased hitbox on the explosion.
- All Soul Spheres now absorb 1 projectile that they collide with only when Yang (D,B+3) buff is active.
There are two more buffs that Dualist needs:

1 - Better healing - 1% while Liu Kang helds the healing and 3% when he ends the healing. High risk/high reward.
2 - Orb's distance - Make the orb's start-up closer to Kang, because at this moment, when Liu Kang puts and stop the orbs instantly on the screen, they stay too far from Liu Kang and that's a huge issue. Look:



----------------

Liu Kang:
- Hurtbox on D+3 slighty increased.
Agreed. It low profiles everything... I love to use it, but I have to admit that it's stupid.

- U+4 is now a high.
- U+4 start up now changed to 10 frames.
- U+4 now has a slightly increased upward hitbox.
Agreed. This way Kang's U4 would be a good anti-air :)

- The last hit of Snapping Dragon (1,1,2) now has less pushback on hit.
it would benefit a lot the Dualist variation because he could do 1,1,2 into stance switch into stading 1 without the needing to do a run to combo! :cool:

Dragon Fire:
- Dragon Fire now has 3 frames of added delay before you can cancel out of it on block. (this does not affect any current dash cancel combos and there is no delay on Hit)
- Flying Kick~MB (B,F+2~Meter Burn) hitbox adjusted so it no longer whiffs or switches sides against certain characters crouch blocking.
The hitbox issue on the Flying Kick MB needs to be fixed, and his fireball run cancels needs to be nerfed in 3 frames. I'm sorry guys, but Dragon's Fire is still too strong. The main problem is in his F2,1,3 FBRC which is +13, so he can jail it into another F2... not fair. Not only Kang, but D'Vorah and Johnny Cage cancels needs to be nerfed to prevent too strong jailings.

Btw, that REO's list is awesome!

And finally... fix Kang's hit/hurt boxes issues. Especially the hitbox on his fireballs in the Flame Fist variation:


Peace! :p
 
Last edited:

Frenzy

Noob
Agreed.



He does NOT neeed his F2,1 to be 0 on block because it already is a good stagger and it would be super plus using Fireball Run Cancels in the Dragon's Fire variation.
at this moment: F2,1 FBRC = +4 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +8.
F2,1 being 0 on block would make F2,1 FBRC = +8 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +12



Naah. Flying Kick MB is a very good toll to get on your opponents face. If you want to end your pressure being plus, use S1 which is +2, or use 1,1,1 which is +1, or use D3 which is +1, or use S4 or 4,4 which is +2; and will you save you meter to do breaker, better zoning...



Meter burning bicycle kick into a launcher in Dualist does not make sense because that is a buff that does not fit the Dualist variation. Dualist needs buffs on his tools that are not working very well - healing, orbs and fireballs.




Oh yeah, this definitely needs to be fixed.

@YOMI REO have proposed very good buffs for Dualist that are very fair and logical, IMO.



There are two more buffs that Dualist needs:

1 - Better healing - 1% while Liu Kang helds the healing and 3% when he ends the healing. High risk/high reward.
2 - Orb's distance - Make the orb's start-up closer to Kang, because at this moment, when Liu Kang puts and stop the orbs instantly on the screen, they stay too far from Liu Kang and that's a huge issue. Look:



----------------



Agreed. It low profiles everything... I love to use it, but I have to admit that it's stupid.



Agreed. This way Kang's U4 would be a good anti-air :)



it would benefit a lot the Dualist variation because he could do 1,1,2 into stance switch into stading 1 without the needing to do a run to combo! :cool:



The hitbox issue on the Flying Kick MB needs to be fixed, and his fireball run cancels needs to be nerfed in 3 frames. I'm sorry guys, but Dragon's Fire is still too strong. The main problem is in his F2,1,3 FBRC which is +13, so he can jail it into another F2... not fair. Not only Kang, but D'Vorah and Johnny Cage cancels needs to be nerfed to prevent too strong jailings.

Btw, that REO's list is awesome!

And finally... fix Kang's hit/hurt boxes issues. Especially the hitbox on his fireballs in the Flame Fist variation:


Peace! :p
Wouldn't that just kill dragons fire?
 
Agreed.



He does NOT neeed his F2,1 to be 0 on block because it already is a good stagger and it would be super plus using Fireball Run Cancels in the Dragon's Fire variation.
at this moment: F2,1 FBRC = +4 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +8.
F2,1 being 0 on block would make F2,1 FBRC = +8 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +12



Naah. Flying Kick MB is a very good toll to get on your opponents face. If you want to end your pressure being plus, use S1 which is +2, or use 1,1,1 which is +1, or use D3 which is +1, or use S4 or 4,4 which is +2; and will you save you meter to do breaker, better zoning...



Meter burning bicycle kick into a launcher in Dualist does not make sense because that is a buff that does not fit the Dualist variation. Dualist needs buffs on his tools that are not working very well - healing, orbs and fireballs.




Oh yeah, this definitely needs to be fixed.

@YOMI REO have proposed very good buffs for Dualist that are very fair and logical, IMO.



There are two more buffs that Dualist needs:

1 - Better healing - 1% while Liu Kang helds the healing and 3% when he ends the healing. High risk/high reward.
2 - Orb's distance - Make the orb's start-up closer to Kang, because at this moment, when Liu Kang puts and stop the orbs instantly on the screen, they stay too far from Liu Kang and that's a huge issue. Look:



----------------



Agreed. It low profiles everything... I love to use it, but I have to admit that it's stupid.



Agreed. This way Kang's U4 would be a good anti-air :)



it would benefit a lot the Dualist variation because he could do 1,1,2 into stance switch into stading 1 without the needing to do a run to combo! :cool:



The hitbox issue on the Flying Kick MB needs to be fixed, and his fireball run cancels needs to be nerfed in 3 frames. I'm sorry guys, but Dragon's Fire is still too strong. The main problem is in his F2,1,3 FBRC which is +13, so he can jail it into another F2... not fair. Not only Kang, but D'Vorah and Johnny Cage cancels needs to be nerfed to prevent too strong jailings.

Btw, that REO's list is awesome!

And finally... fix Kang's hit/hurt boxes issues. Especially the hitbox on his fireballs in the Flame Fist variation:


Peace! :p
I disagree with nerfing of his fbrc(s). Doing that would kill the purpose of playing dragons fire.

Same thing applies to johnny, devorah and scorpion. I agree that Johnny's should be toned down but don't kill all of his jails.
 

Frenzy

Noob
So it looks like 11 being made high mid again, f44 fixes, and a faster d1 seem to be the most requested universal changes.
 

RyuKazuya

Jesus is my Lord and Savior!
I really want f44 to be a reliable whiffpunisher. Sometimes i play shimmy, get the right opportunity to whiffpunish and boom his second hit of f44 whiffs.

And maybe make his ex db2 14 frames on startup. He needs better defence tools. There might be more stuff but thats what id need for now.

And pls keep his fbf motion since it is ultra easy to execute and reminds me of Takumas lightning fists or Roberts lightning kicks. #dontbanexecution ^^
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Why would D1 stay 9 frames if Dragon Kick MB was made +1?

He does NOT neeed his F2,1 to be 0 on block because it already is a good stagger and it would be super plus using Fireball Run Cancels in the Dragon's Fire variation.
at this moment: F2,1 FBRC = +4 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +8.
F2,1 being 0 on block would make F2,1 FBRC = +8 / F2,1 EX FBRC = +12
Just for the record this isn't necessarily true. If NRS made F21 neutral on block by adjusting Liu's own recovery at the end of the string, the frame advantage within the cancel window would still be the same. It's not like when they adjusted Kano's B1 and had no choice but to remove blockstun inside the duration.

That said, I do agree that F2 is already decently staggerable anyway so I don't think this is a necessary change


Meter burning bicycle kick into a launcher in Dualist does not make sense because that is a buff that does not fit the Dualist variation. Dualist needs buffs on his tools that are not working very well - healing, orbs and fireballs.
There might not be anything Dualist-esque about the Bicycle Kick MB option but there's nothing that suggests it should be Dragon's Fire exclusive either lol. I guess the point is that it would give Dualist some more conversion ability if he needs it, and lack of conversions IS a legitimate problem for it compared to Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist.



Change his BFB move to BBF to make it easier to do.
BB inputs for specials haven't been around since after MK9 to prevent accidental backdashes.

And for the record it's currently FBF4. Sure it's an unorthodox input but there's far bigger things to worry about as far as execution requirements for playing Liu optmially.
 

the.hamburglar

Alien keeps me up at night
Other characters can jail into other things so I think toning down Kangs cancels will just be ridiculous. While you can argue the whole different tool sets and different character play styles, you cant deny that they can jail just as easily as we can. @Bruno-NeoSpace I know we had this conversation and I respect your opinions before but yes, I want to see DF Kang succeed and nerfing his cancels on block isnt going to help. I honestly would just be happy with the hitbox issues, a faster poke and/or plus 1-2 dragon kick. Other than that, he might be the most balanced character in the cast. No dirty overhead low, low over head safe 50/50s. (I dont count b2 as the 50/50 because it leads to a knockdown and nothing comes out of it)