Capcom dealing with the input buffer triggering unwanted specials (NRS could learn a bit)

[Eddy Wang]

I tried the alternate controls, but they're pretty weird in general specially on BF inputs in MKXL, and this is actually my most concerned issue with NRS games on today's era, a solution to this problem needs to come forth.


A good way to solve our issue, is to make BF inputs to actually charge for a few frames like capcom does to charge characters. This would make hat throw and such moves to come out only when charged and not being able to come out when playing footsies, this would also mean the return to charge characters in MK games.

Another suggestion is the route capcom took with SFV in the above video, by lowering the time between the motion input and the button press as sort of gap, to trigger a special move, capcom will change the input from 6f to 10f in order to find a middle ground in between buffered inputs. Which i did suggested before.

But capcom its only changing this because they are trying to appeal the casual players, which complained the buffer window being too fast, although i don't really see a problem with, NRS had the best idea when they gave everyone an option to customize their controls, with alternate controls, and release check toggle option.

So having an option to make the controls a bit more precise could be something to consider, while some technical aspects of gameplay may require more from some characters than others, the exeuction barrier also differs from one characters to others, i don't think there is an easy option to play Hat Trick KL at the highest level without submiting itself to the torture of alternate controls, since that option requires to learn extra inputs, there is a big issue while trying to use hat traps and hat throws most of the time, although this eliminates the buffers on bf while trying to use normals who share the same input with certain special attacks.

Injustice its the next game in line, the online beta got a lot of feedbacks by the majority not really liking the fact of accidentally keep triggering special moves with superman when trying to use his best normal, as well as some characters.

Don't really want to tag colt into this, pretty sure NRS employee will look up and come up with a better solution to this problem, hopefully by the time Injustice is out, if this is still an issue, it should be on our best interest to suggest solutions to fix this issue along with the patches.

(this vid was not posted here, randomly, if you pay attention to it, you will notice, Jwong triggering special moves while trying to use command normals, among other things...)

 

[Azarashi Elder]

I've yet to try alternate controls in an NRS game, but they might be necessary, when and if I pick up INJ2. I've been fooling around with IGAU for months, in preparation for the sequel, and yeah, I get unwanted specials sometimes.

It's annoying. On paper, using charge might help, but in my experience I most often get an unwanted move because I'm holding down or back to block. After blocks, I try to punish with a F12 string, or something similar, and I get a B, F1 or D, F1 special instead. I found myself wishing that a second back, or downward input was necessary to get those moves to come out, but if so, that fix would be the opposite of charge.

Anyway, I blame pad players. If the game wasn't made with pad in mind, I could just do fireball motions like a sane person. Pad players... Nuts.

 

[God Confirm]

its really annoying coming out of crouch and going for a B3 with Scorpion and getting Teleport, or going for an F4 with Cyrax and getting teleport

 

[CrazyFingers]

I had this problem in the Injustice 2 beta where id be crouching and then go for a F2 and well I get DF2 and if you guys don't know that might be the worst thing to get when you're looking to throw out a huge advancing mid.

 

[freerf245]

I rarely had a problem with it in MKX but in Injustice 1 and the beta it was a huge issue. Couldn't get f2 with superman after blocking something with a tight punish window. Kept getting the rising grab.

 

[Madog32]

No offense meant to anyone, but it sounds like some ppl are trying to play IGAU like its another mkx, and just need to slow down a hair when making the switch to injustice. I've played injustice regularly since release (and continue to do so occasionally), and can't remember ever complaining about this.

I was not chosen for the I2 beta, so I cannot speak for that. Perhaps there really is an issue there. But I never had issues like this in IGAU

 

[Azarashi Elder]

No offense meant to anyone, but it sounds like some ppl are trying to play IGAU like its another mkx, and just need to slow down a hair when making the switch to injustice.

Slow down???

:fft::

My playstyle doesn't allow for such things.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

All joking aside, I doubt the problem has anything to do with speed. The problem is, Injustice is a game that requires a directional input to block. Mk uses the block button, so the input buffer problem isn't as noticeable, or present at all.

It's one studio handling two very different games with different blocking mechanics, and this problem is a consequence of that.

I'm hoping for a day one patch fix.

 

[IrishMantis]

yeah there way too generous with the buffer window

The buffer they have now should be locked to easy inputs and give non easy inputs at least half that

It's annoying I can't step back and D3 in fear of NP coming out

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I've posted the solution 1000x

This has always been a huge issue in inj1 and inj2 beta, I hope this is fixed 100% because I imagine it's very easy.

Just make it to where if you're holding back to block and u punish w f2, a f2 only comes out instead of a bf2 special unless after blocking the attack you depress back and then tap back then forward 2. The game registers you pressing the back button at the same frame you block the attack although you've already been holding it anticipating an attack.

This is elementary simple and In inj1 it was impossible to punish -16 moves w 15f startup f2s because of this

 

[Eddy Wang]

All joking aside, I doubt the problem has anything to do with speed. The problem is, Injustice is a game that requires a directional input to block. Mk uses the block button, so the input buffer problem isn't as noticeable, or present at all.

It's one studio handling two very different games with different blocking mechanics, and this problem is a consequence of that.

I'm hoping for a day one patch fix.

Actually even in MKX it is, not many ppl noticed maybe because their mains don't share command normals with special moves on same commands, but everyone else who mained a character with a requiring move to be used all the time and shared the input of the command normal with a special had to deal with this for 2 years.

I mained KL Hat Trick, he has a df2, and bf2 input and a f2 input, which its his fastest and longest reaching mid, since i'm a stick player, i always block holding back as well, but coming from duck to punish a low profiling recovery move on block (Erron's slide) was a big deal.

Justing Wong in the second video on the OP, accidentally was getting df2, trying to use f2 coming out of crouch block, and he also got db2, trying to use B2 with raiden


What i came to realize is, in MKX, if you hold a direction, the code will carry over to the next input and being registered as a command, as result, if you have a command normal that needs to be used right away on that particular window of oportunity, it becomes impossible to use due input viability.

There is also a sort of priority over specials, for example, KL df2 has less priority than his bf2, if you do bdf2 trying to get a hat trap, you will get hat toss instead which is bf2 so the first input its not ignored by the negative edge, however the second one is and the game regists bf2 instead of df2.

That issue we used in MK9 to kill off negative edge when doing Kabals, F4~ndc F4~ndc by inputing down in between b and f we could kill the negative edge off to prevent another nomad dash to come out.

 

[DeftMonk]

I would not be too pleased with NRS games using charge moves and I don't think that is the answer either (imagine casuals trying to zone with deadshot if he was a charge char). Pig of the hut recently posted an interesting video which shows how reversals appear to be just using an algorithm that reads all inputs made during reversal window simultaneously and then choosing what special its closest to. Which can obviously cause some issues.

Maybe they can come up with a new button that does something interesting when held rather than swap stance button.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't think charge moves would fit in this game. It would make certain things impossible to do due to directional inputs needed in strings. They just need to tighten the buffer window.