What's new

General/Other - Balanced Can we talk about the obvious?

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Okay so I have to point out the obvious and hope something gets changed. I'm grateful for the changes Lord Paulo but there's still room for improvement I believe.

There's some changes that I and the Kenshi community I'm sure would agree with should happen to make Balanced a more viable option. I know the patch just came out but sometimes you don't need long to see what things need changes.

DB4: As @Mitsuownes asked on his Inferno rant. What is a zoner gonna do with no hit advantage on a zoning tool? That needs to change

EX BF3: With this patch it was given +1 on block as some sort of incenstive to use it. What is anyone gonna do with +1 at full screen? The thing with Balanced is that the opponent is more than likely neutral ducking so they don't get hit by BF3 right? So why would I risk spending a bar to get +1 IF theyre blocking and 5% more damage? The change everyone wanted was for EX BF3 to have all the hits come out on block for more chip, meter build (this next one would just be something maybe a little absurd I personally want but why not lol), and extra push back.

Finally I have 2 options I would like to propose for people jumping at Kenshi when they start to get pretty close.
A: Make DB1 faster for a viable anti air
B: His standing 1 is already a good anti air so I propose giving his F3 just a little more range. At max range, anti airing with standing 1 into F3 whiffs. That combo only goes into 20% into pushing them full screen so it wouldn't be too much to ask for.

Please don't give this variation any offensive tools. He's clearly all defense and I want him to stay like that.

P.S. Again grateful for the buffs, I just think he still needs to be touched up on.

@16 Bit @colt
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
As for Balanced:

Regular Db4 should definitely have better frames on hit, and have faster startup.

Ex teleflurry is still useless on block. Why would anyone spend a precious bar to be +1, even up close in blockstrings, when you can use ex push? All hits coming out on block would be a good idea, same as the MB teleflurry Jacqui style I proposed some time ago.

Exrisingkarma move now has very reduced utility. Armor removal has hurted his antiair game and the variation feels empty. If they don't want to revert its previous state (which won't be crazy, since unbreakble sub kept his low armor launcher, and Kenshi was bottom tier as him) I would propose 3 intermediate options:

1- Give it armor, send the opponent far, but not launch for combo, at most a teleflurry, for around 19%.

2- Give it armor, not launch by itself, but gives the option to spend another bar for full combo like Mileena's ex roll.

3- Give it armor, make it launch for full combo, but change the scaling of the move, so that he can't reach 30%.
 
Last edited:

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
As for Balanced:

Regular Db4 should definitely have better frames on hit, and have faster startup.

Ex teleflurry is still useless on block. Why would anyone spend a precious bar to be +1, even up close in blockstrings, when you can use ex push? All hits coming out on block would be a good idea, same as the MB teleflurry I proposed some time ago.

Exrisingkarma move now has very reduced utility. Armor removal has hurted his antiair game and the variation feels empty. If they don't want to revert its previous state (which won't be crazy, since unbreakble sub kept his low armor launcher, and Kenshi was bottom tier as him) I would propose 3 intermediate options:

1- Give it armor, send the opponent far, but not launch for combo, at most a teleflurry, for around 19%.

2- Give it armor, not launch by itself, but gives the option to spend another bar for full combo like Mileena's ex roll.

3- Give it armor, make it launch for full combo, but change the scaling of the move, so that he can't reach 30%.
I don't agree with the overhead being faster. They're supposed to duck because of teleflurry. The opponent has the right to be able to react to the overhead. And I like the first EX RK change you proposed. That seems the most fair
 

omooba

fear the moobs
patch been out for a day and 70% of my time has been on kenshi. to be honest the only thing i want is bf3 to fully come out on trade. the main problem i have is every zoner wins the zoning war. against none zoners i have no porblems. buffing his dmg of anti airs won't really help much i think the bf3 coming out on block and trade will make him legit viable regardless of if this meta stays or we go back to the way it was
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I don't agree with the overhead being faster. They're supposed to duck because of teleflurry. The opponent has the right to be able to react to the overhead. And I like the first EX RK change you proposed. That seems the most fair
I didn't mean significantly faster, of course.

I think options 1 (possessed worked like this prepatch) and 3 could be the best, yes. Would reduce the damage but mantain the good antiairing and anticrossup that gave identity to the variation.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
patch been out for a day and 70% of my time has been on kenshi. to be honest the only thing i want is bf3 to fully come out on trade. the main problem i have is every zoner wins the zoning war. against none zoners i have no porblems. buffing his dmg of anti airs won't really help much i think the bf3 coming out on block and trade will make him legit viable regardless of if this meta stays or we go back to the way it was
Once the opponent gets close, Kenshi is free to jump ins unless you wait to do a standing 1 for not even a guaranteed combo
 

Belial

Noob
Thing is with all the buffs there is no need to respect kenshi anymore as he has no armor, no AA and no normals. oh yea and no backdash. At least pre patch you had Karma to AA which made them fear to move or jump which in turn helped setup run-throw.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
again in my experience standing one has been working wonders. the only jump attacks i get beat by is broke cross ups. doesn't seem that bad to me
I just want consistency is all. I agree S1 is good but connecting the F3 afterwards isn't consistent
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I just want consistency is all. I agree S1 is good but connecting the F3 afterwards isn't consistent
You can do s1~risingkarma into followup, or s1 run into 43~risingkarma into teleflurry, things like that. Or if the opponent is too low to run in time, just s1, b1~risingkarma into teleflurry.

However, s1 antiair is one of those things that one gets 10/10 times in the lab when you know the jump is coming, but in the heat of the battle it is not consistent, as you say. And for crossups, forget about it.

In summary I honestly think Balanced needs armor back in exrisingkarma (maybe in one of the three options I mentioned above, not as prepatch, to regulate damage) to give sense to the variation. Just like Possessed worked, exdb1 into bf3 for 19% would be ok and give him back part of his strong antiair and anticrossup game.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
You can do s1~risingkarma into followup, or s1 run into 43~risingkarma into teleflurry, things like that. Or if the opponent is too low to run in time, just s1, b1~risingkarma into teleflurry.

However, s1 antiair is one of those things that one gets 10/10 times in the lab when you know the jump is coming, but in the heat of the battle it is not consistent, as you say. And for crossups, forget about it.

In summary I honestly think Balanced needs armor back in exrisingkarma (maybe in one of the three options I mentioned above, not as prepatch, to regulate damage) to give sense to the variation. Just like Possessed worked, exdb1 into bf3, 19% would be ok and give him back part of his strong antiair and anticrossup game.
I suppose youre right
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
yeah but

that's a dmg buff don't NEEd it. it'd be nice but i don't need it
soooo someone gonna tag pig or nah?
Ok, I'll do it lol @Pig Of The Hut

I know that he also thinks that Possessed can be strong in this meta as I suspected.
Teleport gimmicks are more "abusable" now.

But I think it's necessary to see what he thinks Balanced needs in these critic moments, and if he sees coherence in any of the three options about exrisingkarma I proposed (assuming exact old exrisingkarma couldn't go back).

I see some players saying the variation is fine or even better ( I don't agree at all) but in the end, Pig is the only one that has had real success in tournaments with the variation, he knows it deeply.
 
Last edited:

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
yeah but

that's a dmg buff don't NEEd it. it'd be nice but i don't need it
soooo someone gonna tag pig or nah?
I don't get it. What damage buff? Lol it's just an anti air combo. S1 AA into F32 BF3. And you can tag him. I forgot about it but I mentioned him on twitter. I feel like tagging him would be a little excesive
 

omooba

fear the moobs
I don't get it. What damage buff? Lol it's just an anti air combo. S1 AA into F32 BF3. And you can tag him. I forgot about it but I mentioned him on twitter. I feel like tagging him would be a little excesive
it's a dmg buff to his anti air. it's not necessary at all completely just a luxury buff
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
I've been playing Kenshi some more for the past few hours and I just don't get it. Why would DB4 not have any hit advantage?