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General/Other - Acidic can we talk about Acidic?...

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
I think a rework of Acid/Erosive Blood is at least necessary.
Here's a move that does 15% over time on hit and is -8 on block up close, however, it has a travelling hitbox (which you can get plus frames out of), restands opponents out of the air (like Flame Aura), you can't whiff punish it with normals, on hit allows Alien to pressure with a 20%+ throw or unreactable mixup into unreactable mixup leaving him still minus enough to launch with Armor afterwards. If that wasn't bad enough, EX Erosive Blood acts like Shinnoks Mimicry forcing you to block any mixup while guaranteeing a throw.
It's not like he doesn't have a +9 on block EX'd projectile that does 15% on hit .. OH WAIT YES HE DOES.

edit: +9 projectile varies on distance, up close its neutral

I'm fine with Alien being really really good, I'm fine with NRS promoting DLC with really good tools, but some of the stuff in game is excessive to the point where I find it hard to find the competition unless you "join them, cause you can't beat them", if MKX has to be that way then every character should have a really stupid move that makes fundamental play obsolete (aka Casual Kombat X), at least it'll be balanced.

edit: seems to me NRS wants to keep characters viable solely through their offense - which I'm not against - but it doesn't justify their safety or defensive options
 
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Bomborge

Aspiring scrub
My point is let's not swing the nerf bat because this stuff just hasn't been fleshed out. It's only been 2 weeks and the kp2 characters haven't been out long enough for people to fully understand the matchups. I brought up Tanya and predator because: to this day I think predator only needed a dmg nerf, his frames and move properties should have been left alone and Tanya got hit with bat so hard she's like an elderly victim in a GTA game. Her nerfs affected all variations and I think before considering nerfs/buffs or whatever else, they need to be looked at across all variations and "carefully" tweaked or adjusted so it doesn't kill the design of how a character/variation works.
You might be a total scrub but I agree with you when it comes to waiting it out. Its been 2 weeks, the matchups aren't fleshed out and everyone is still trying to figure stuff out.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
EX Acid Spray is 0/+1 on block.

Non-ex Acid puddle restand is slightly plus, hard to tell because it depends on the height your opponent is at when hit. Opponent can armor out of all follow up options.

Acidic's zoning struggles against the better keep away characters like Kitana, Quan, Predator and Sektor.

Alien is still amazing and may be the best of the KP2.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
Actually, it kinda is. Point is a character can have a crazy conditional strength and still be balanced and beatable.
Well that's what my point is. we don't see much venomous so i can't make a comparison to that, but i'm 99% certain caltrops (or even EX caltrops) don't tick damage anywhere near as fast as the acid does. But stacked ticks is the point of the acid and I'm not saying to remove that.

umm did you look at the combos into grab? it was armored wake up into like 17% into 22% grab
sooooo a total of 32%
17+22 = 39, also is this even optimal? I know its early but I find it hard to imagine that 17% is the biggest combo you can do to lead into the restand.

then there was 27% into 21% grab off corner combo when quan got open up by an unsafe ex overhead
sooooo a total of 48%
The two characters I play can easily match or beat that either metered or meterless so no total damage output is not my argument or what I'm (or I think ANYONE ELSE in this thread is) talking about.

now what you're telling me is that i shouldn't be able to do 25% dmg of my wake up into a plus restand into a grab?

what I'm saying (not telling you) is i think acid ticks should slow down a little, or maybe last not as long, the amount of damage it does is fine but the duration of the damage is what I'm talking about (yes duh changing either speed or duration would affect damage but not in any meaningful way maybe 2-3% tops).

1 BAR UNSAFE CORNER COMBO
What combo is this?? EX flip is the bar and unsafe right? kinda moot when what we're (I) talking about is combos into acid restand into grab, if it was combo into restand into "1 BAR UNSAFE CORNER COMBO" then you have a point.

I'm just saying looking at the game play I have seen so far I think that acid sprays do what they should do just a little too well.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
I'm trying to understand this. If he messes up an anti air, he's fucked? Doesn't that apply to most?
yes it's like everyone
I think a rework of Acid/Erosive Blood is at least necessary.
Here's a move that does 15% over time on hit and is -8 on block up close, however, it has a travelling hitbox (which you can get plus frames out of), restands opponents out of the air (like Flame Aura), you can't whiff punish it with normals, on hit allows Alien to pressure with a 20%+ throw or unreactable mixup into unreactable mixup leaving him still minus enough to launch with Armor afterwards. If that wasn't bad enough, EX Erosive Blood acts like Shinnoks Mimicry forcing you to block any mixup while guaranteeing a throw.
It's not like he doesn't have a +9 on block EX'd projectile that does 15% on hit .. OH WAIT YES HE DOES.

I'm fine with Alien being really really good, I'm fine with NRS promoting DLC with really good tools, but some of the stuff in game is excessive to the point where I find it hard to find the competition unless you "join them, cause you can't beat them", if MKX has to be that way then every character should have a really stupid move that makes fundamental play obsolete (aka Casual Kombat X), at least it'll be balanced.
only rework necessary is it shouldn't kill.
the plus 9 projectile isn't that nasty, it doesn't jail into anything, it's not soul blast.
are you sure about those plus frames though. that would be nasty in corner set ups
he's pressure IMO is fine too
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Well that's what my point is. we don't see much venomous so i can't make a comparison to that, but i'm 99% certain caltrops (or even EX caltrops) don't tick damage anywhere near as fast as the acid does. But stacked ticks is the point of the acid and I'm not saying to remove that.



17+22 = 39, also is this even optimal? I know its early but I find it hard to imagine that 17% is the biggest combo you can do to lead into the restand.



The two characters I play can easily match or beat that either metered or meterless so no total damage output is not my argument or what I'm (or I think ANYONE ELSE in this thread is) talking about.




what I'm saying (not telling you) is i think acid ticks should slow down a little, or maybe last not as long, the amount of damage it does is fine but the duration of the damage is what I'm talking about (yes duh changing either speed or duration would affect damage but not in any meaningful way maybe 2-3% tops).



What combo is this?? EX flip is the bar and unsafe right? kinda moot when what we're (I) talking about is combos into acid restand into grab, if it was combo into restand into "1 BAR UNSAFE CORNER COMBO" then you have a point.

I'm just saying looking at the game play I have seen so far I think that acid sprays do what they should do just a little too well.
my point in adding total dmg is i feel the ticks just make it seem nastier than it really is. seems like you're saying the problem is how long the dot is there? why does it matter if the dmg is always the same. they don't get multipled
those combos 1 was his midscreen meterless combo which is pretty abysmal if you want restand
and i mentioned his corner combo which was optimal
feel like if we just looked at the DOT as one number done instantly it wouldn't be as bad as y'all make it sound
 

omooba

fear the moobs
what I'm saying (not telling you) is i think acid ticks should slow down a little, or maybe last not as long, the amount of damage it does is fine but the duration of the damage is what I'm talking about (yes duh changing either speed or duration would affect damage but not in any meaningful way maybe 2-3% tops).
this right here is what i'm not understanding
the dmg is fine? but the duration it takes to deal the dmg is where the problem is? wtf
 

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
Alien downplaying is heating up
Wats your opinion of him? is he tanya CEO style or is he just really really good? ii think he's good, very good but i do not think he is tanya all over again. i think cyrax is worse and nobody is even talking about how crazy good leatherface is. .
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
this right here is what i'm not understanding
the dmg is fine? but the duration it takes to deal the dmg is where the problem is? wtf
Because the individual ticks are only like .2-.5% right? So I think that's a fine amount of damage but how long it lasts/how fast is my beef. Simple as that, changing duration/speed would be a fair nerf without making it useless.

You're right in that the total damage over time is probably fine, but the fact you can have that ticking all the while laying into your opponent if they make one wrong guess (of the many many many guess you have to make against alien), makes it seem a bit too strong of a tool.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Because the individual ticks are only like .2-.5% right? So I think that's a fine amount of damage but how long it lasts/how fast is my beef. Simple as that, changing duration/speed would be a fair nerf without making it useless.

You're right in that the total damage over time is probably fine, but the fact you can have that ticking all the while laying into your opponent if they make one wrong guess (of the many many many guess you have to make against alien), makes it seem a bit too strong of a tool.
still don't understand
either i'm slow(probably) or you're slow
how about this say there was no dot and the projectile just did 7% would that be fine?
edit: nvm
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
still don't understand
either i'm slow(probably) or you're slow
how about this say there was no dot and the projectile just did 7% would that be fine?
edit: nvm
k lets slow it down then (for you. i'm operating at top speed)

.2 * 10 seconds = 2% (look carefully!! The damage is .2 and goes for 10 seconds)
.2 * 9 seconds = 1.8% (what's this!? the damage is the same, but now we've taken a second off of its duration)

yaaaaaaayy math

again, my point isn't the damage it (acid ticks, I'm talking about individual ticks) does but its duration, i can't believe i've had to repeat that so many times. Also there aren't any projectiles that get stackable damage for landing them (that you can shoot from the air, into the air, and onto the ground, at various ranges, including spray from a normal, AND a special that restands), so comparing it to a solid 7% projectile isn't a fair comparison to what it currently does.
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
Not to downplay (I think the character is extremely good, but I don't want to argue either extreme yet), but there's a huge lack of knowledge with this character that I want to clear up, seeing how I have played purely Acidic since KP2 release.

1. As Asod said: Nothing is guaranteed off normal acid blood restands (only after specific setups using ex krawl midscreen). Ex acid blood in the corner can lead to some crazy damage however.
2. (This one is more my opinion to be fair) Why is doing an 8% DoT something to complain about? An 8% straight up projectile would be superior. Also Reptile's spit does 8%(?) and kills. I see no reason why Alien's shouldn't kill just because it is a DoT... Though this is just my own opinion.
3. The zoning is ridiculous for characters who have to get in on Alien. Characters with good projectiles tend to win fullscreen however. The reason is that acid spit doesn't reach full screen and air spit has slow startup and an even worse recovery.
4. His throw damage is not quite what everyone believes it is. After the restands, you will take a portion of damage from acid DoTs anyway (u3's in combos, acid blood restand itself), whether you are thrown or not. When you are thrown however, the damage will be included in the throw, making it appear like the throw has caused more damage than it has. Regardless, throwing while standing on an acid pool does put significant damage on a throw anyway, but I don't have numbers to quote off the top of my head.

EDIT: One thing I personally see as something that needs to go for sure is acid giving first hit. This is fine for caltrops/sunray because of how they are set up, but it is far too easy for Acidic to get first hit with his.
 
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omooba

fear the moobs
k lets slow it down then (for you. i'm operating at top speed)

.2 * 10 seconds = 2% (look carefully!! The damage is .2 and goes for 10 seconds)
.2 * 9 seconds = 1.8% (what's this!? the damage is the same, but now we've taken a second off of its duration)

yaaaaaaayy math

again, my point isn't the damage it (acid ticks, I'm talking about individual ticks) does but its duration, i can't believe i've had to repeat that so many times. Also there aren't any projectiles that get stackable damage for landing them (that you can shoot from the air, into the air, and onto the ground, at various ranges, including spray from a normal, AND a special that restands), so comparing it to a solid 7% projectile isn't a fair comparison to what it currently does.
ok here's my math
(3%)+(.50*4secs)=7%
cassie's iag=7%
if anything alien's is worse because the dmg doesn't happen instantly you never get more than 7% so i don't understand why this is so bad
it's not about math is just i don't understand your logic
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
ok here's my math
(3%)+(.50*4secs)=7%
cassie's iag=7%
if anything alien's is worse because the dmg doesn't happen instantly you never get more than 7% so i don't understand why this is so bad
it's not about math is just i don't understand your logic
alright I'm done, you're not gonna (or are just downright refusing to) understand so I'm not gonna waste my time explaining anymore.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
ok here's my math
(3%)+(.50*4secs)=7%
cassie's iag=7%
if anything alien's is worse because the dmg doesn't happen instantly you never get more than 7% so i don't understand why this is so bad
it's not about math is just i don't understand your logic
jeez dude stay away from numbers

(3) + (.5*4) = (3) + (2) = 5%