General/Other - Kenshi Buffs Kenshi Desperately Needs.

[ismael4790]

Whats your stratagy with fisticuffs? I MUST KNOW

I answered you in private, this is Kenshi's place!

 

[TerribleMatt]

Reasonable (I think) balanced Kenshi buff suggestions

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 35 frames (from 43)
exbf3 is now -2 on block (from -9)

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15)
exbf2 has increased pushback

Telekinetic Slice (db4) startup reduced to 20 frames (from 24)
db4 now -15 on block (from -10)
exdb4 is -4 on block (from -10)

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10)

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42)

1 is now +3 on block (from +2)

Any thoughts?

 

[coconutshrimp]

Reasonable (I think) balanced Kenshi buff suggestions

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 35 frames (from 43)
exbf3 is now -2 on block (from -9)

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15)
exbf2 has increased pushback

Telekinetic Slice (db4) startup reduced to 20 frames (from 24)
db4 now -15 on block (from -10)
exdb4 is -4 on block (from -10)

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10)

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42)

1 is now +3 on block (from +2)

Any thoughts?

This seems reasonable, but what about Telekinetic slice on hit? As it stands that's -1 on hit.

 

[ismael4790]

This seems reasonable, but what about Telekinetic slice on hit? As it stands that's -1 on hit.

Yes, it's totally stupid that it is negative on hit...

 

[Immortal]

Reasonable (I think) balanced Kenshi buff suggestions

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 35 frames (from 43)
exbf3 is now -2 on block (from -9)

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15)
exbf2 has increased pushback

Telekinetic Slice (db4) startup reduced to 20 frames (from 24)
db4 now -15 on block (from -10)
exdb4 is -4 on block (from -10)

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10)

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42)

1 is now +3 on block (from +2)

Any thoughts?

Adjusted:

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 32 frames (same as it was before stealth nerf)
exbf3 dmg up to 17%, -2 or -9 doesnt really matter you're not gonna throw TF up close.

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15) -------------- this is fine
exbf2 no need to increase pushblock, just make it like +5 or +6 on block (from -3) same as Shinnok EX Hellsparks thou this move still obviously gonna be worse but good enough. Gives you some breathing room when pressured.

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10) --------- this is also fine

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42) --- this makes no sense in Balanced. If anything make it to be overhead (first hit) or even double overhead but if you still think Balanced should'nt have any mix ups, then just make it non cancel-able.

1 is now +3 on block (from +2) this is also fine thou it's not really needed. Way more needed is a 6f D1.

Added:

TKS has now 19 startup frames (down from 24) and is +3 on hit.

 

[TerribleMatt]

Adjusted:

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 32 frames (same it was before stealth nerf)
exbf3 dmg up to 17%, -2 or -9 doesnt really matter you're not gonna throw TF up close.

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15) -------------- this is fine
exbf2 no need to increase pushblock, just make it like +5 or +6 on block (from -3) same as Shinnok EX Hellsparks thou this move still obviously gonna be worse but good enough. Gives you some breathing room when pressured.

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10) --------- this is also fine

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42) --- this makes no sense in Balanced. If anything make it to be overhead (first hit) or even double overhead but if you still think Balanced should'nt have any mix ups, then just make it non cancel-able.

1 is now +3 on block (from +2) this is also fine thou it's not really needed. Way more needed is a 6f D1.

Added:

TKS has now 19 startup frames (down from 24) and is +3 on hit.

There are a lot of ways this could potentially go I think. I personally would prefer Kenshi's buffs to go the defensive route, so I am all in favour of a 6f d1 but I am less partial towards the plus frames on exbf2 or the overhead b1. It is not up to me, however, and other than that I agree with you.

Also exbf3 and exdb4 doing added chip damage would be useful I think (maybe 3% up from 1.88%).

 

[Immortal]

There are a lot of ways this could potentially go I think. I personally would prefer Kenshi's buffs to go the defensive route, so I am all in favour of a 6f d1 but I am less partial towards the plus frames on exbf2 or the overhead b1. It is not up to me, however, and other than that I agree with you.

Also exbf3 and exdb4 doing added chip damage would be useful I think (maybe 3% up from 1.88%).

I'm pretty sure that they (NRS) wont listen anyway but just for sake of arguments:

- in such a offense focused game like MK X you have to have some sort of offensive options, all proposed by me are pretty weak in comparison to those good pressure focused characters (meaning you wont get great pressure or guessing game going out of it) but it's good enough for a zoning character. B1 seems like the best and easy route (for NRS) to give him overhead.


- you can't win in MK X by playing defensive all the time, by default here if you're blocking - you're already loosing in this game. And in Balanced when you're pressured you really need a "get off me" tool. Balanced Kenshi isn't Quan Chi, you don't have anything to fear from him up close after poking out (if he gets d1 6f that is).

That's why i think EX SC should the same as EX Hellsparks so +6 on block and yet it still gonna be worse then this move obviously but good enough for a zoner.

But like i said this is only for arguments sake. Next patch is probably months away and even then it's hard to tell if NRS gonna buff Kenshi at all.

 

[Error]

A lot of scrubby, anti zoning zealots in this thread lol.

 

[HuttonMD]

Why does no one use possesed? I Dont know much about kenshi but I've seen ppl say its one of his better variations but you don't see many ppl actually use it why is that?

 

[Immortal]

Why does no one use possesed? I Dont know much about kenshi but I've seen ppl say its one of his better variations but you don't see many ppl actually use it why is that?

Firstly Possessed isn't good either (thou better then Balanced atm). Secondly people like Balanced more. Thirdly if you wanna play more mixed style Kenjutsu is a bit better imo (still not good overall).

Mostly thou people like Balanced, it reminds them how Kenshi was designed in the first place, the idea behind him and the play style.

 

[HuttonMD]

Firstly Possessed isn't good either (thou better then Balanced atm). Secondly people like Balanced more. Thirdly if you wanna play more mixed style Kenjutsu is a bit better imo (still not good overall).

Mostly thou people like Balanced, it reminds them how Kenshi was designed in the first place, the idea behind him and the play style.

Makes sense that ppl who like mk9 kenshi would automatically go to balanced. Isn't possesed zoning similar to balanced tho, you have your push move the drop down low which is kinda like the oh slash and the sickle move which is simlar to teleflurry. Now I Dont know the frame data or anything so they all could be punishable or slower or whatever and if so they ok I'm just curious they just seem like similar zoning specials but possessed has the teleport and some other moves balanced doesn't have.

If it all comes down to preference then ok and I'm not trying to argue about buffs or anything I just wanted to know possesed weaknesses

 

[HuttonMD]

What I'm getting at is if you like the mk9 kenshi style why use balanced if its worse then possessed and they both have the same kind of zoning?

 

[Immortal]

Makes sense that ppl who like mk9 kenshi would automatically go to balanced. Isn't possesed zoning similar to balanced tho, you have your push move the drop down low which is kinda like the oh slash and the sickle move which is simlar to teleflurry. Now I Dont know the frame data or anything so they all could be punishable or slower or whatever and if so they ok I'm just curious they just seem like similar zoning specials but possessed has the teleport and some other moves balanced doesn't have.

If it all comes down to preference then ok and I'm not trying to argue about buffs or anything I just wanted to know possesed weaknesses

They have different zoning options. Balanced is better in that (thou shitty overall still)

TF is way better in Balanced coz it tracks run, while in Possessed it will whiff. Also its -23 on block in Possessed, while -9 in Balanced. Only SC is better in Possessed then in Balanced. But overall Possessed variation isn't a strong zoning one which most people expect when they think about Kenshi.

Possessed is a weird mix of zoning and spacing style gameplay and at it i prefer Kenjutsu which imo is a bit better (still suck overall thou). Both at best low mid tier atm, Balanced is low tier.

 

[IrishMantis]

Adjusted:

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 32 frames (same as it was before stealth nerf)
exbf3 dmg up to 17%, -2 or -9 doesnt really matter you're not gonna throw TF up close.

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15) -------------- this is fine
exbf2 no need to increase pushblock, just make it like +5 or +6 on block (from -3) same as Shinnok EX Hellsparks thou this move still obviously gonna be worse but good enough. Gives you some breathing room when pressured.

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10) --------- this is also fine

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42) --- this makes no sense in Balanced. If anything make it to be overhead (first hit) or even double overhead but if you still think Balanced should'nt have any mix ups, then just make it non cancel-able.

1 is now +3 on block (from +2) this is also fine thou it's not really needed. Way more needed is a 6f D1.

Added:

TKS has now 19 startup frames (down from 24) and is +3 on hit.

I about making 1 +3 won't happen as far as I'm aware no normals are more than +2 which they are technically plus +3 due to transition frame between blocking to attacking (special reversals cancel the frame)

 

[Immortal]

I about making 1 +3 won't happen as far as I'm aware no normals are more than +2 which they are technically plus +3 due to transfusion frame between blocking to attacking (special reversals cancel the frame)

That's fine, like i wrote it's not really needed. 6F D1 however is, so is the rest of proposed buffs.

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

is it crazy to ask for EX Tele flurry to have all hits coming out on block ?!..... instead of just that first hit ??? (and of course being safer, cuz, i'm wasting a meter)

is also crazy to ask, for a safer EX Rising Karma ?! (i'm not asking to be + on block, like Tanya... just safer, cuz i have no mix ups on this variation)

also, his Blade Reflect, the startup, takes fucking forever.... lel

another thing, Kenshi has probably, the biggest amount of "useless strings" in the game (nice job on the mokap team) but, it was completely wasted, cuz, most of them, are not "special cancellable", they just end in a knockdown (with lower dmg)... wth is the point of that ?!

EX Spirit Charge, why does this move, doesn't go further like in MK9, this move was really good, the character still has it, but, it doesn't work (i mean, it works as a "get off me" move), but, if he had this "back", he could actually control the screen !!!

P.S. if you look closely, all the chars. that came back(from MK9) has a good variation, that they can work, not Kenshi tho..... none of his shit works....

Spoiler

P.P.S. am i the only who thinks that, Tele Flurry didn't needed to push the opponent on fullscreen.... if you want more dmg, use, Tele Flurry, but, if you want the position, end with the Spirit Charge, for the fullscreen push !!

 

[coconutshrimp]

What I'm getting at is if you like the mk9 kenshi style why use balanced if its worse then possessed and they both have the same kind of zoning?

Excuse me for being late but I use Possessed. Its my Favorite Kenshi variation, however it's still garbage. This variation suffers from poor meterless damage, it's zoning tools aren't as good because you can run through his BF3 as @Immortal stated, and doesn't have a really good anti-air.

 

[ShredMinor]

I play kenjutsu mainly and that is my main priority, buff this variation right and it'll be his best variation by far. What he needs is pressure, this is his aggressive variation that involves more going in. If they gave him better pressure from a mid starting move, mixed with his serious punishing and anti zoning, seriously.. he would be a force to be reckoned with.

Make df1 safe/safer do NOT make ex df1 safe:
Yes you can space it out, but that means spacing it out to a range B3 doesn't reach, you may not realise it but that can be caught onto and make your mixup game severely weak against someone competant. Df1 being safer would really help him. This being easily punishable at a range where B3 is an option is just not ok.

B2 - the troll move. Put it this way, even if this move was PLUS on block, it still wouldn't be that great because of its redundancy and the fact that that hard knockdown overhead you used could have been a full combo. Making this plus 1 or 2 is literally the only thing I can see to make me use it, that or completely changing the move

Make 3 1 something like -1 : THE MOST IMPORTANT BUFF. This is in my opinion the move they need to address. This is his main string for the variation and so it should be made the signature move. Making 31 minus 1 will give him stagger pressure off of a MID. I for one cannot deal with anymore uppercuts between my 42 string. I cannot stress this enough, kenshi starting pressure from only highs is by FAR the worst thing playing kenjutsu. Also, as a bonus if your generous, increase the range so 3 has the same range as his standing 1. I get genuinely shocked at some of the ranges that this move doesn't reach.

Making bf3 slightly safer on whiff would be nice, but it's not needed. It's a punisher and a move to keep them in check and in one place, it's not meant to be abused, play balanced if you wanna zone.

And for a bonus make 2112+4 or whatever the move is safer or at least better combo potential, do something with it.

And improve the stagger potential with the 2 1 series, although I don't really care, 421 covers this

This is all he needs for kenjutsu, you would be given pressure, punishers, and slightly safer/safe 50/50s until meter is used which is needed to gain access to this variations fierce damage. If you can't win with these tools, then it's not kenjutsu anymore.

Thanks for reading

 

[M.D.]

So, randomly spamming through MK offline since online is crap, I thought to give Kenshi Very Hard AI a shot.
He just stands there,does nothing, and when you breathe, you get instant TFed or RKed into 30%.

So, I can safely say that, if you are a mutant skynet machine and can react to 3-5 frames, Balanced Kenshi is the most single handedly broken character in the entire game.

Then I tried to play as him and got destroyed 900000000-0. Guess I better replace my brain with a computer.
How about for mere mortals, bring back his shoulder charge properties from mk9 >: ) and give him a 12-14% knockdown overhead.
That should do it.

 

[coconutshrimp]

So, randomly spamming through MK offline since online is crap, I thought to give Kenshi Very Hard AI a shot.
He just stands there,does nothing, and when you breathe, you get instant TFed or RKed into 30%.

So, I can safely say that, if you are a mutant skynet machine and can react to 3-5 frames, Balanced Kenshi is the most single handedly broken character in the entire game.

Then I tried to play as him and got destroyed 900000000-0. Guess I better replace my brain with a computer.
How about for mere mortals, bring back his shoulder charge properties from mk9 >: ) and give him a 12-14% knockdown overhead.
That should do it.

Any character on very hard AI is like that. Also did you know you can neutral duck TF and he's minus 43? Not so broken if ya ask me.

 

[ismael4790]

So, randomly spamming through MK offline since online is crap, I thought to give Kenshi Very Hard AI a shot.
He just stands there,does nothing, and when you breathe, you get instant TFed or RKed into 30%.

So, I can safely say that, if you are a mutant skynet machine and can react to 3-5 frames, Balanced Kenshi is the most single handedly broken character in the entire game.

Then I tried to play as him and got destroyed 900000000-0. Guess I better replace my brain with a computer.
How about for mere mortals, bring back his shoulder charge properties from mk9 >: ) and give him a 12-14% knockdown overhead.
That should do it.

The AI at very hard setting basically cheats. Imo it abuses of the fact that it knows your inputs xD (not as much as mk arcade classic games did, but yeah). But we are simple humans, can't read opponents minds, or at least can't do it every time!

 

[gam224]

Adjusted:

Tele-Flurry (bf3) recovery reduced to 32 frames (same as it was before stealth nerf)
exbf3 dmg up to 17%, -2 or -9 doesnt really matter you're not gonna throw TF up close.

Spirit Push (bf2) is now -10 on block (from -15) -------------- this is fine
exbf2 no need to increase pushblock, just make it like +5 or +6 on block (from -3) same as Shinnok EX Hellsparks thou this move still obviously gonna be worse but good enough. Gives you some breathing room when pressured.

Blade Reflect (db2) and Blade Absorb (exdb2) startup reduced to 8 frames (from 10) --------- this is also fine

b1 recovery reduced to 32 frames (from 42) --- this makes no sense in Balanced. If anything make it to be overhead (first hit) or even double overhead but if you still think Balanced should'nt have any mix ups, then just make it non cancel-able.

1 is now +3 on block (from +2) this is also fine thou it's not really needed. Way more needed is a 6f D1.

Added:

TKS has now 19 startup frames (down from 24) and is +3 on hit.

These are the first realistic kenshi buffs i have seen. I stand by this

 

[Manatee_Warrior]

i would like to see tele furry changed so that it doesn't knock back, EX version is a launch with an over head, normal version plays out with a low - doesn't

knock back on hit maybe like a sweep or something. tele slice is faster, close and mid range tele slice should have the same frame as mid slice at least and

far tele slice should be the same as close tele slice currently frame wise. make tele slice or ex tele slice a viable launch or maybe re-stand.

maybe switch the ranges on tele furry and spirit push?

or give him better over head/low combo strings.

and slightly faster low pokes.

 

[GLoRToR]

Stahp.

 

[DubiousShenron]

i fucked around with balanced and they literally need to change 2 things:

1. make the whiff recovery on teleslash better

2. increase the distance of normal telepush to past jump distance (this means if the opponent is past jump distance they have to respect [and block] telepush and teleslash to get in -- in the current state of kenshi, the opponent doesnt have to respect either option and can just walk in to jump range and jump in on you for free)