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Wetdoba

All too easy...
LOL try doing the Lunge against Raiden, Kabal, Liu, Kitana, Sonya, Frost, Jade, Scorp, Erron, to name a few. Its impossible. I can do it consistently against Sub thin ice only when I'm full screen. C'mon guys this move could use an improvement to help him around the zoning.
Between lunge, spear, shoulder and his insane wave dash he has plenty of options to get in. He is more than fine in the anti zoning department
 

XxTheGoblinX

Le_Supreme_
LOL try doing the Lunge against Raiden, Kabal, Liu, Kitana, Sonya, Frost, Jade, Scorp, Erron, to name a few. Its impossible. I can do it consistently against Sub thin ice only when I'm full screen. C'mon guys this move could use an improvement to help him around the zoning.
You didnt even read what I said huh? I said this move cant be used against kitana kabal and sonya. This move should only be used full screen against good zoning from certain characters when you cant get in. Dont ask for buffs just because you dont know how to dash block and play patient.

The only matchup where its too hard to get in is against Centrion, and the hammer lunge works fine against her.
 
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Also against characters like scorpion you honestly can just walk towards him. He isn't a zoner and a ducked spear gives you plenty of time to get into optimal range.
 
Some of those are possible depending on the reactiontiming. Like with Jade if you delay it slightly your jump apex will go over her blades. I think it will be tricky to buff the move because it will absolutely cripple zoners if not done right.

I often make the opponent guess whether I will spear, jab or hammer. If I smell hesitation then I hammer.
I pretty sure that it will not punish Jade either way. I was testing it just now.
 
I have done it before but I wont claim to be able to recreate all the circumstances that made it work. It could be dependant off a frame or two opening but for me the hammer is more of a gap closer from far away anyway. It being -7 makes it rough to punish at all if done right. Especially with the threat of the amplify.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
"SK will be on Cassie/Jacqui lvl if f34 is made special cancelable."

Hmmm. F3 is -8f on block. F34 is -7f on block and it has a gap. How exactly does that make him as scary as Cassie and Jacqui? Not to also mention that the range isnt even the same as the Cassie/Jacqui's counterpart f3s. Shoulder is -20f on block.

Regarding his pokes i believe we all can agree that d1 or d3 on hit must jail to s1. If that comes true then make his s1 +1f on block.

Buffs must have less recovery in both variations. No explanation needed there i believe.

F2 must be made faster, or make it a mid.

Slightly adjust hammer lunge hitbox to be a bit more consistent against projectiles. That move is so slow it can be AAed to combo on reaction if opponent is waiting for it. It can easily be baited.

Fix some of his gaps. Almost all of his strings are practically unplayable against someone who knows the MU. Prime example is f212. Why on earth that string is -15f on block? It leads to nothing, has no mix up and the hit adv it creates does not allow any of his buffs to activate safely.

Another one is f24. It has a gap AND its full combo punishable. Zero reason.

Regarding KB's i believe the only one worth changing is his f3, 4, 1+3 one. Make it activate during a counter hit/punish. Everything else is fine imo.

Either make his spear projectile deal more dmg, or make it a true mid, cause as it is right now, it sucks big time.

Shoulder overhead is the most useless amplified move in the game. Literally NO ONE uses it. Make it come out on block. The reward? SK has oki. The risk? SK gets full combo punished. I dont see how that would make him broken. SZ has it with shoulder charge, among others iirc.

All in all if these changes are made i believe SK will become really good. Top tier? Perhaps. Broken? Nope. Why? Because we have to take into account what changes/nerfs will the top tier characters receive as well.

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DarthSatan666

Rock, Paper, Nut Punch
Small request. But I'd like to see the second part of up hammer be an overhead. Mid on the up swing, overhead for the one that falls from the sky.
 
You have no idea what you are asking for or the ramifications of all of these buffs at a high level. These changes would make him broken beyond belief and shouldnt even be humored.

The actual changes he needs are:

  • S2 hit mid on crouch block
  • D1 jail into S1 on hit
  • Better buff/taunt recovery
  • B3 hitbox more consistent on jumpers
  • Restand plus 2-3 on hit
That is it.

  • Forward throw KB is already extremely strong, start labbing match ups to find the best places to use this. Here's a hint lots of moves lose their pushback on flawless block and leave them in range for the throw KB to be a reversal punish
  • F34 does not need to be special cancellable, the string is strong enough as is as a 10 frame safe mid and F3 can be confirmed into shoulder on its own, start practicing and start staggering F3 on block. Doing F3 as a meaty also takes away the gap.
  • F34 KB needs to stay as is fixing the taunts to be reasonable will solve that viability.
  • if you honestly need hammer lunge to be a safe flying version of geras sand trap that can anti air into plus 50 knockdown to get in i dont know what to tell you. You can already land 1 spear to get in and hammer lunge can jump projectiles already if spaced right, it cant be 100% free projectile immunity. Absolutely absurd.
  • No shoulder should never be able to be amplified on block, absolutely rediculous request. It is already an advancing launcher that can reversal punish many moves. Again, you cant just make everything he does free and have zero risk. If they really want to make the the 2nd mb useful they could turn it into a long splat knockdown for a priest set up or something.
Also note that you did not factor in current top tiers getting toned down into your requests at all.
Having S1 or even S2 jail from D1 would be great and its something I wasn't considering. I was testing with d4 and it jails into S2 but only in the corner which is fine since Shao has much corner carry.

I agree on the amp shoulder coming out on block would be excessive. My idea was to give some utility to the amp overhead shoulder in some way. Right now it is useless. Maybe more damage as a combo ender.

I still think Hammer Lounge and spear could use an improvement in terms of consistency thats all. Maybe give spear a better arc and launge some invincibility frames to projectiles at the start up so you can react better.

Thanks for the feedback. Hope NRS is working on it.
 

ty lewis

Noob
If your using Hammer Lunge for pressure you are adding in extra risk. It's extremely slow to the point where you can be anti aired by a jab easily or your asking to be flawless blocked. It's best use is to punish zoning against certain characters and to hit confirm into from 1,4 in a corner.

If you are gonna use an overhead option up close use his universal hop. All of Shao Khan's overhead options aren't great and that's the best one.

Spear should have a better hitbox as it's easily ducked even by crouch blocking opponents at certain ranges.

F3,4 being special cancelable would be a dream come true.

F2 being a mid would be rather nice and make the move a lot better as terrible as it is.

There is no excuse as to why Shoulder Charge can't be amplified on block. It makes his overhead option literally useless currently.