Black Manta General Discussion "I brought a hook to hang you from."

[Basic Stupidity]

His pressure is super good in the corner. Here's an example:
https://mobile.twitter.com/HeroesNZ3/status/907791974538907648

J3 Cancel even at max height is slightly plus. They can D1 interrupt a follow-up but all you basically have to do is take a step back and F2 since you out-range them.

There actually isn't much you can do to blow up B2 4 J3 Cancel, even more so since you can also go into B22 so they're expecting the OH. They can D2 interrupt F21 4 J3 but again, you can condition them with the safe OH.

auto block will work against the f21 or f213 string so staggering it into trait will most likely only work against a select few characters with bad b2s and b1s. you can always go for yolo tele if you think theyre mashing but depending on their random button press and how fast it is they could hit your tele aswell tho the gap is kinda small so it could work out and then youll be able to establish pressure.

another thing is you can trait cancel the f21 and then go for instant bf2 and youll get away for free pretty dumb tbh

 

[Basic Stupidity]

i think the rockets actually being plus is a good thing, i mean they're completely interruptible and go away on hit too.

dont forget theyre highs

 

[Invincible Salads]

dont forget theyre highs

even worse, lol, kinda wish they were mids since they're so interruptible, we'll see what the next balance patch brings i guess. also doesnt his mb teleport whiff on a crouching opponent too? like whats the point of making it an over head if its still going to whiff on a crouching opponent? lmao.

can someone pls answer my question of OS'ing the beam tho?

 

[Tweedy]

At first I was like "I must regulate these downplayers because of Sonic's 15 minute hot take"

But then I was like "Well it sucks being one of the few Superman downplayers left. Maybe all of these guys can just do my work for me with Manta."

Keep it going friends.

 

[HeroesNZ]

auto block will work against the f21 or f213 string so staggering it into trait will most likely only work against a select few characters with bad b2s and b1s. you can always go for yolo tele if you think theyre mashing but depending on their random button press and how fast it is they could hit your tele aswell tho the gap is kinda small so it could work out and then youll be able to establish pressure.

another thing is you can trait cancel the f21 and then go for instant bf2 and youll get away for free pretty dumb tbh

Auto block? Are you referring to being able to block while mashing?

That well doesn't work here since they have to hold back to block the OH, i.e - they can't be mashing D2 to interrupt.

What they can do though is mash MB B3 but we can Float Cancel without the J3 to block in time or even counter with our own MB B3. Or you can just F21, walk back and punish whatever they've mashed out.

 

[HeroesNZ]

how do u os his laser exactly?

I think he means if your character has a fast enough long reaching normal with a back/down input you can mash it out and it'll punish the regular beam but you'll still block if he MBs.

It also works with DB specials so Robin for example can just mash Sword Flip

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Auto block? Are you referring to being able to block while mashing?

That well doesn't work here since they have to hold back to block the OH, i.e - they can't be mashing D2 to interrupt.

What they can do though is mash MB B3 but we can Float Cancel without the J3 to block in time or even counter with our own MB B3. Or you can just F21, walk back and punish whatever they've mashed out.

take a character like batman or darkseid who can hold back and mash fast pokes at the same time, that will blow it up.
what you can do is experiment and see if tele will catch it but if it cant then your going to have to block and hope its minus for them.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

At first I was like "I must regulate these downplayers because of Sonic's 15 minute hot take"

But then I was like "Well it sucks being one of the few Superman downplayers left. Maybe all of these guys can just do my work for me with Manta."

Keep it going friends.

i never was downplaying this character is great
Edit: nevermind

 

[Tweedy]

i never was downplaying this character is great

Yeah I didn't mean everyone or you specifically.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I think he means if your character has a fast enough long reaching normal with a back/down input you can mash it out and it'll punish the regular beam but you'll still block if he MBs.

It also works with DB specials so Robin for example can just mash Sword Flip

are you sure?

in that case its still a good move regardless, just hitconfirm into mb on block then, not really an issue.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

legit some of his helmet costume choices are low tier AF, #Downplayed.

I like how I see statuses saying he's low tier, after a friggen day. Yeah, you're right, we ABSOLUTELY know everything there is to know after a day, and its concrete and couldn't possibly ever change.. Because, ya know, not a single time in the life of this game has any character been thought to be good or bad, and later been proven otherwise.

I swear they could release a re-skin of Deadshot, same moves, frames, everything, just look different and a new name we'd see a bunch of these kumquats posting about how he was low tier because his midscreen damage was low OMG MB rifle is situational af! .. or just saying it with no explanation, because someone else said it and they lack the ability to shut the fuck up when grown folks are having a damn discussion.

How about we lab the goddamn character and stay optimistic as we figure him out, until proven otherwise? How about that?

This is not directed at anyone in particular, and its DEFINITELY not directed at anyone I see discussing his options and tools, even if you're saying you think something is weak or bad, etc, this isnt directed at you. Its purely at the jackanapes who speak before realizing the end they have aimed at the keyboard should, in fact, be aimed at the toilet, and they have the whole thing backwards.,

 

[Tweedy]

Deadshot wouldn't be seen as low tier after a day because he's the most dominant zoner and easy asf to play.

People often defend zoning but the one thing about it is it's easy. Working your way in and hit confirming/setting up situations properly is a lot more complicated in a game where zoning is relevant, than zoning is. That's why Sub was bad on day 1 and that's why Manta is bad on day 1. That's why Cheetah and Scarecrow were low tier at release.

 

[HeroesNZ]

take a character like batman or darkseid who can hold back and mash fast pokes at the same time, that will blow it up.
what you can do is experiment and see if tele will catch it but if it cant then your going to have to block and hope its minus for them.

Darkseid can't do anything, Batman can with trait and B2. Except if he B2s we can beat him out with either a J2 Cancel or a D1 interrupt after F21

Supergirl beats J3 with B1 but J2 can hit her on a read. WoWo and BA can trade B1 with J3 Cancel. Supes' B2 beats it but is highly punishable, Robin's DB2 is punishable, Firestorm is the same as Supergirl.

It's super read-based pressure and there are options for everything. F2 Rocket even beats out mashers, as does F21 Tele as you already said. Overall his pressure's pretty good.

 

[HeroesNZ]

Manta's seemingly pretty good on paper, literally the only area he's lacking in is damage but even then it could be worse.

Gonna have to see how his MUs play out.

are you sure?

in that case its still a good move regardless, just hitconfirm into mb on block then, not really an issue.

Yeah I'm sure, not every character can do it though.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

lol I see mashing is now being discussed as legitimate strategy. NRS players pls.

 

[STB BroZki]

legit some of his helmet costume choices are low tier AF, #Downplayed.

I like how I see statuses saying he's low tier, after a friggen day. Yeah, you're right, we ABSOLUTELY know everything there is to know after a day, and its concrete and couldn't possibly ever change.. Because, ya know, not a single time in the life of this game has any character been thought to be good or bad, and later been proven otherwise.

I swear they could release a re-skin of Deadshot, same moves, frames, everything, just look different and a new name we'd see a bunch of these kumquats posting about how he was low tier because his midscreen damage was low OMG MB rifle is situational af! .. or just saying it with no explanation, because someone else said it and they lack the ability to shut the fuck up when grown folks are having a damn discussion.

How about we lab the goddamn character and stay optimistic as we figure him out, until proven otherwise? How about that?

This is not directed at anyone in particular, and its DEFINITELY not directed at anyone I see discussing his options and tools, even if you're saying you think something is weak or bad, etc, this isnt directed at you. Its purely at the jackanapes who speak before realizing the end they have aimed at the keyboard should, in fact, be aimed at the toilet, and they have the whole thing backwards.,

Welcome to Test your might. The longer you stay here the longer your brain starts to melt from the stupid shit people say.

 

[Tweedy]

Thoughts on b11u3d2 or b11u3 float to the other side jump 2? A mix up?

 

[Jelan]

Welcome to Test your might. The longer you stay here the longer your brain starts to melt from the stupid shit people say.

May I suggest visiting the Injustice Reddit?

 

[God Confirm]

Deadshot wouldn't be seen as low tier after a day because he's the most dominant zoner and easy asf to play.

People often defend zoning but the one thing about it is it's easy. Working your way in and hit confirming/setting up situations properly is a lot more complicated in a game where zoning is relevant, than zoning is. That's why Sub was bad on day 1 and that's why Manta is bad on day 1. That's why Cheetah and Scarecrow were low tier at release.

So true, but people have a serious validation complex on here where they need to constantly state how hard good zoning is

Yes decisions are still just as important as any other style of play when zoning, but the fact is you just don't have the same execution requirement or complications as you do when just inputting different specials to zone

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Darkseid can't do anything, Batman can with trait and B2. Except if he B2s we can beat him out with either a J2 Cancel or a D1 interrupt after F21

Supergirl beats J3 with B1 but J2 can hit her on a read. WoWo and BA can trade B1 with J3 Cancel. Supes' B2 beats it but is highly punishable, Robin's DB2 is punishable, Firestorm is the same as Supergirl.

It's super read-based pressure and there are options for everything. F2 Rocket even beats out mashers, as does F21 Tele as you already said. Overall his pressure's pretty good.

i never said it wasnt read based but i was saying there were ways to bypass the overhead or the trait

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This character is going to do absolutely nothing to shift this game's competitive meta.

He might be great. With time, we might be top 10, easy.

But nothing he does changes anything, realistically or imaginarily.

Starfire II. Just another wall made of brick.

 

[gabesena]

How's he dealing with zonning so far for you guys?

 

[chr1sam]

Everyone is training mode talking about how great he is. Showing setups and shit. I want to see someone doing well with him in actual matches...

 

[The Farmer]

Day 1 impression:

Character has no neutral.

His jump-ins have crap range.

His mids aren't good. They either have no range(stand 2) or are too slow (f+2)

His sweep is probably the worst in the game due to how slow it is.

He gets out zoned all day. Has to rely on yolo teleport to get in.

He doesn't get a lot of +plus frames on any of his knockdowns.

Character is interesting but I think hes going to be low tier.

Is this real life? No Neutral

 

[Rude]

Everyone is training mode talking about how great he is. Showing setups and shit. I want to see someone doing well with him in actual matches...

Its been a day.