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Question - Sorcerer Black Magic Utility

Israfel

Designer for BxA
What is everybody using to maximize the utility of Quan Chi's black magic spell (dd1)?

After a brief lab session one evening one setup I found to bait the opponents wake-up ended up being a 46% reset that used no meter and effectively "stole" 2 bars from the opponent. I was using B324 njp run 2,1 dd1 (21%) I had reptile set to wakeup MB slide and still had enough time to block and follow up with b2 trance b324 njp 141 (25%)

If you have any critiques, I'm happy to listen. I'm also curious about everybody else's setups they use/are willing to share with the Quan-munity.
 
What is everybody using to maximize the utility of Quan Chi's black magic spell (dd1)?

After a brief lab session one evening one setup I found to bait the opponents wake-up ended up being a 46% reset that used no meter and effectively "stole" 2 bars from the opponent. I was using B324 njp run 2,1 dd1 (21%) I had reptile set to wakeup MB slide and still had enough time to block and follow up with b2 trance b324 njp 141 (25%)

If you have any critiques, I'm happy to listen. I'm also curious about everybody else's setups they use/are willing to share with the Quan-munity.
A while ago I saw gustavness or w/e his name is post some stuff about draining 3 bars by using 1 but I can't seem to find it , but usually Id only put it up if I'm facing a heavy meter dependent character like shinnok for example.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Premium Supporter
During a jump in, I like to hit confirm F21 DD1. It's safe on block and allows for his boss back dash.

If the opponent jumps into that space, they will be trip guarded into Anything into MB Rune, Trance. This will consume almost two bars.

You can choose to finish the combo with 4 Close rune and take tons of meter from the opponent.
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
@Gustavness is the man to ask. His set ups are dirty and should be banned.
@EVB Alright RyRy Ryan, I meant to tell you ive got some nasty flame fist stuff now, lets get some offline.

@Israfel As for Sorcerer, he plays very differently and you will have to relearn a lot of things. If you specifically want to know about meter drain, you want to learn one bar setups, two types. people will tell you to work on meterless, but this is just silly. he builds meter so ridiculously fast now you should always use a bar in any combo you do. I'll use low starter as an example.

Starter, NJP, 14xx Trance, black magic, 3xxMB Rune, B2xxrune. Using standing 3 makes it so quan does not move and will keep you inside the portal for the b2xxrune. 3 drained hits, little over a bar i think and does 35%. In the corner add jip into low air skull for more drain.

Starter, 4xxMB trance, black magic, crossover jip F2122, 4xxrune. 40% 1 bar, hard knockdown, slight drain, option to drain more on block or go for the portal fake. Corner you can do more dmg, same concept

You should only use black magic when the opponent is approaching a bar and a half to 2 bars, otherwise use armor.

F212xx Black Magic on hit is super-plus (I even use it on block thats how good the cancel window is) and lets you sneak in low/overhead into MB Rune, Trance. I land that shit all the time, it may as well be cheating if you want to be honest. he has a couple dirty setups like that.

If you have the opponent cornered, they have no meter, and you land something you can use chip portal if you have at least two bars. there are setups that can be done that cannot be escaped that will net you about 75%

Good luck. remember that without meter, no one can armor through any gaps, and no wakeups. Most characters cannot extend combos. as an example, sorcerer demolishes shaolin kung jin. without ex chakras, he does next to no dmg. Personally, I call him Bum Jin. lack of meter kills many characters offense and lets you pretty much run free all over them.
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
@EVB Alright RyRy Ryan, I meant to tell you ive got some nasty flame fist stuff now, lets get some offline.

@Israfel As for Sorcerer, he plays very differently and you will have to relearn a lot of things. If you specifically want to know about meter drain, you want to learn one bar setups, two types. people will tell you to work on meterless, but this is just silly. he builds meter so ridiculously fast now you should always use a bar in any combo you do. I'll use low starter as an example.

Starter, NJP, 14xx Trance, black magic, 3xxMB Rune, B2xxrune. Using standing 3 makes it so quan does not move and will keep you inside the portal for the b2xxrune. 3 drained hits, little over a bar i think and does 35%. In the corner add jip into low air skull for more drain.

Starter, 4xxMB trance, black magic, crossover jip F2122, 4xxrune. 40% 1 bar, hard knockdown, slight drain, option to drain more on block or go for the portal fake. Corner you can do more dmg, same concept

You should only use black magic when the opponent is approaching a bar and a half to 2 bars, otherwise use armor.

F212xx Black Magic on hit is super-plus (I even use it on block thats how good the cancel window is) and lets you sneak in low/overhead into MB Rune, Trance. I land that shit all the time, it may as well be cheating if you want to be honest. he has a couple dirty setups like that.

If you have the opponent cornered, they have no meter, and you land something you can use chip portal if you have at least two bars. there are setups that can be done that cannot be escaped that will net you about 75%

Good luck. remember that without meter, no one can armor through any gaps, and no wakeups. Most characters cannot extend combos. as an example, sorcerer demolishes shaolin kung jin. without ex chakras, he does next to no dmg. Personally, I call him Bum Jin. lack of meter kills many characters offense and lets you pretty much run free all over them.
The 50/50 after f212 into Black Magic is guaranteed? They can't armor/backdash, etc?

What is the cancel adv of f212 into Black Magic on block?
 

Goat-City

Banned
During a jump in, I like to hit confirm F21 DD1. It's safe on block and allows for his boss back dash.

If the opponent jumps into that space, they will be trip guarded into Anything into MB Rune, Trance. This will consume almost two bars.

You can choose to finish the combo with 4 Close rune and take tons of meter from the opponent.
F212 into dd1 on block is minus 8, so doing it can force you to eat a guaranteed d1 if the opponent knows and they time it right, or they can just go right into a moderately fast mid string or mixup that catches your backdash. It's not a bad option but in a lot of cases it might be better to just do f212 and only be minus 3.
 
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Nuovo_Cabjoy

G O R O B O Y S
The 50/50 after f212 into Black Magic is guaranteed? They can't armor/backdash, etc?

What is the cancel adv of f212 into Black Magic on block?
Last time I tested I'm pretty sure it was +1 or +2. You could use it like your s1 in a way, mixup of the very small plus frames, throw, back up and whatever else.
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
The 50/50 after f212 into Black Magic is guaranteed? They can't armor/backdash, etc?

What is the cancel adv of f212 into Black Magic on block?
Not guaranteed, more like his personal stagger string. IMO anything that is plus for quan i consider super-plus :D. If you use it sparingly you WILL catch people, I guarantee that.

it is in fact better that F21 on hit or block. on block if i remember correctly it is safe (been a while). Keep in mind im just giving you an example :)
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Last time I tested I'm pretty sure it was +1 or +2. You could use it like your s1 in a way, mixup of the very small plus frames, throw, back up and whatever else.
Not guaranteed, more like his personal stagger string. IMO anything that is plus for quan i consider super-plus :D. If you use it sparingly you WILL catch people, I guarantee that.

it is in fact better that F21 on hit or block. on block if i remember correctly it is safe (been a while). Keep in mind im just giving you an example :)
Thanks! I might have to play with this a little and see how it feels.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Premium Supporter
F212 into dd1 on block is minus 8, so doing it can force you to eat a guaranteed d1 if the opponent knows and they time it right, or they can just go right into a moderately fast mid string or mixup that catches your backdash. It's not a bad option but in a lot of cases it might be better to just do f212 and only be minus 3.
I said F21 DD1, Not F212.
 

Triga_badass

Sorcerer
Hi guys, I use the meter drain spell during the restand of the MB trance, which if spaced correctly you can land a standing 4 for 18frame adv allowing a free mixup but I would suggest doing this with 2 bars to keep you safe, and this works extremely well in the corner from what I'v tested online
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Premium Supporter
Oh I thought that was a typo. Isn't that even more minus on block than f212 dd1? I'll double check but I think it is.
Nope.

Totally safe. You can even backdash Tempest MB Spin.

I mentioned in my original post that it sets up a dead space between you and the opponent because of how good Quan's backdash is, you get put in perfect B2 range and with a MB rune and then trance you will take two bars of the opponents life.

So using F21 from a jump gives you multiple options, you can either cancel into Purple spell, or continue with f212 and be only -1, or hit confirm into a MB rune block string or launch on a hit confirm. It is the best thing to use on a jump in with sorcerer without going for a 50/50.

And against smart players with meter, you don't want to go for the low.
 

Goat-City

Banned
Nope.

Totally safe. You can even backdash Tempest MB Spin.

I mentioned in my original post that it sets up a dead space between you and the opponent because of how good Quan's backdash is, you get put in perfect B2 range and with a MB rune and then trance you will take two bars of the opponents life.

So using F21 from a jump gives you multiple options, you can either cancel into Purple spell, or continue with f212 and be only -1, or hit confirm into a MB rune block string or launch on a hit confirm. It is the best thing to use on a jump in with sorcerer without going for a 50/50.

And against smart players with meter, you don't want to go for the low.
Ok, I just tested it and it's a frame safer than f212 dd1, so it can only be punished by a 6 frame move. You're right then, it's a great thing to use in a match with Quan's back dash unless they know the match up and can chase the back dash down with an advancing string.
 

Israfel

Designer for BxA
This is all awesome tech and great conversations as well. A nice change from the constant Quan-bashing I'm sure we all still see. I will definitely be trying out the tech you shared @Gustavness
@UsedForGlue I like the f21 setup as well. I actually use F21 alone for all of it's plus frame glory for dirty resets. I will have to start using some spells in there now.
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
So i went back and checked, usedforglue is correct. F21 is in fact a frame or two better than f212 on block (could have sworn it was not, but who knows maybe im a patch change behind). However f212 on HIT into portal is a frame or two more plus than f21

He is also correct about using f212. Like, most of the time, instead of the oh/low. Ive been preaching it for a while, but with mb rune into delays into other blockstrings he builds meter very very fast. The quan giveth, and he taketh away.
 


I practiced some of these combos last night. The first two combos in this video were giving me trouble. Specifically, at the point, between NJP into Black Magic into Standing 4. My 4 whiffs by, at least, 25 frames or more. I've tried different distances, timing, and mashing the 4. WTF am I doing wrong?