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Black Canary General Discussion 2.0

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Yeah Im still kinda in shock.

I half worry they'll come to thier senses before the patch itself drops though lol. That or there were mistakes made on the stream. Canary made out like a fucking bandit. Holy hell. 33 is PLUS?..

Honestly, after the general adjustments and this stuff coming through, the Canary bandwagon is gassed up gonna look like one of those trains in India with people hanging off every inch of it. Lol.

I have my Characters finally. Canary snd Bats. Booya.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
This is all I've heard so far.

Imo....

112 safe on block - I need to see the numbers. We're probably at -5 or sonething like that. cool that if we miss our punish, we won't get launched though.

1121+2 a tick throw - that's nice man. I wonder if the throw can be ducked or broken. If not..... that's nice. We're at +25 and can do some vortexes on some characters. That's pretty good guys. People are gonna learn to backdash the grab when they see 112 and block it. So.... we do 112 Df33 (should connect on all backdashes) or 112 BF2 (should connect on the smaller backdashes) or 112 Df3MB (if it's blocked, we're at +1 although it may push the opponent back more now with the other changes out of jab range)


33 is + on block - whoa. I mean..... wow. Guys.... as it is right now, 33 is -8 on block. We cartwheel to make it safe. But let's be honest..... we weren't using that shit as a lockdown/mixup unless it connected in a combo because it was so punishable. Now it's + on block. We can lock a motherfucker DOWN with this shit! 1, 33 chases down people who backdash after the 1. The second 3 will connect on almost the whole cast. So now..... if it's + on block..... how are they gonna get away? 33 moves us forward. Oh and did I mention it's a mid/mid? That's right. 33 isn't a high. It just looks like it. I REALLY want to flesh this out. I'm seeing free cartwheel entries on block right now. That's a free entry into a 50/50. A mb OH combo or the HKD sweep. Lol. My god. I have to see how many frames on block it is. What if we can 1, 33, into 21/23? On block?!

More moves out of cartwheel have push back on block - not sure what this means exactly. First of all, there's only 3 moves from the cartwheel not counting the mb. And other than the mb, they all can be punished. If it makes them safer, that's cool. I'll have to see it in motion.

Upkick is now safe - wait.... you mean the the gear upkick? They can't mean the one from cartwheel right? I know I only used it in combos but.... safe? That would honestly be an embarrassment of riches.

B12 safe on block and does more damage - it's always good to be safe on block. B1 was one of her best whiff punishers and it was a move I used a lot in neutral. I would get the b12 on times I missed and did B1 Canary Drop motion on block. I'm cool with this.

Overall I'm stoked. It's still gonna be as hard before to get in. But.... now we might be able to stay in. On block! It looks like they won't be able to dash away.
Actually noone ever used 112 1+3 for pressuring. Until now 33 was irrelevant for her neutral game as well. We gotta see where this leads, but making her mixups slightly stronger (even stronger) won't help her too much, because upclose she was superb anyway. 21/23 will remain her main mixup, so 112 1+3 is nice to have, but nothing that we will rely on (at least if it can be neutral ducked as I expect).

The buff I am most excited for is b12. Finally we got something to throw out during neutral.
 
I feel like Aquaman nerf is her biggest buff. And other changes to her are even more ridiculous than whatever it was, that i asked for. I`m gonna enjoy those sweet, sweet plus frames.

Also, i played other Canary`s like twice since the release. It`s seems like it`s time to learn the matchup.
 

Tigerbang

Legendary doodbro
I do not think she will be as strong as "many" think because pushblock stops alot but her 50/50 stuff is there no doubt, along with being stronger with the knockdown dealing SAFE B+1,2 BUT she still has to get you there. the 33+ stuff is not amazing. 1,1,2 on the other hand is good but its far from unstoppable. she got better but not Goddes Like.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
I've been using 33 before I ever heard of this buff coupled with her oki. I basically do jump over 3 (which may or may not cross up and I have literally no idea which way a person should block) on knockdown and then 33 which combos with the jump 3 or gives me pressure. 33 being plus is gonna really make all that worse for people.
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Changes made her wayyyyyyyyy better than I expected.

Her neutral game went from..... however good you thought it was, to potentially up there with the best. Her getting lvl 2 basically 24/7 only gets stronger as a tool of hers the better her neutral overall gets. Thing is, when you buff her neutral, you're also buffing her lvl 2 trait which at this point is ridiculously powerful. Her already top 1 mix game is SIGNIFICANTLY more terrifying, and it got even better than that in footsie range to the point it can be overly oppressive at times. Still hanging on to her potentially top 5 char overall as this version of the game gets fleshed out more.
 
Yo man.... we at +3 after 33 is blocked. That means....

- D3 (the God Normal) is 7 frames.
- D2 is 5 frames
- 2 is 8 frames.
- 1 is 3 frames.

An interesting thing I've messed around with..... Canary's F3 takes a step back before she does her overhead. After 33 is blocked, you're at the perfect range (and frames) that the hop back will dodge practically the entire casts D1, a lot of D2s and either hit them with the overhead or give them just enough time to block it. Which is still nice for us, because we're at +6 after F3 is blocked. It does push us out though.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
Yo man.... we at +3 after 33 is blocked. That means....

- D3 (the God Normal) is 7 frames.
- D2 is 5 frames
- 2 is 8 frames.
- 1 is 3 frames.

An interesting thing I've messed around with..... Canary's F3 takes a step back before she does her overhead. After 33 is blocked, you're at the perfect range (and frames) that the hop back will dodge practically the entire casts D1, a lot of D2s and either hit them with the overhead or give them just enough time to block it. Which is still nice for us, because we're at +6 after F3 is blocked. It does push us out though.
One of my Canary friends was saying that 3,3, Handspring U3 is now a true blockstring. This 3,3 is ballin', I'm happier with it than I thought I'd be
 
One of my Canary friends was saying that 3,3, Handspring U3 is now a true blockstring. This 3,3 is ballin', I'm happier with it than I thought I'd be
Yup. 33, Handrpring U3 has no gaps and is completely safe (-6 on block).

Another couple of things about the Handspring attacks.....

Handspring D3 might as well be completely safe. it's -8 on block but because it pushes the opponent out so far on the 2nd blocked kick (and it doesn't matter the range either), that it's nearly impossible to punish. Before, if it was blocked close, the opponent didn't move, and you were at the mercy to every D1 combo they had.

This is almost the same with Handspring Scissor Kick (DF33). It pushes the opponent back a good ways. The first time you do it, it's almost startling. It's -16 so it can still be punished by moderately quick special moves amd reall good advancing strings like Red Hood's B23. But everybody and their mom can't just use their most stylin' juggle starter now. And Superman's F23...... it takes a specific timing for it to catch it on block. It's not a free punish for him.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Lads, it's too late here for me to start testing stuff, but
What should I be doing for pressure now? My flowchart must be updated.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Also, Sanic Fax just started playing our main, lads.

I don't want to main the same character as SonicFox. It'll make me feel like shiiiiiit.
 
I like play Black Canary because she's a mixup/rushdown character and is/was (?) considered low-tier. If tier whores start flocking to her now because of these buffs its gonna blow me, can't stand seeing people bandwagon on characters they never touched before just because they received buffs.

So is 3,3 the go to combo starter now? Are the 2,1 and 2,3 openers obsolete?
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I like play Black Canary because she's a mixup/rushdown character and is/was (?) considered low-tier. If tier whores start flocking to her now because of these buffs its gonna blow me, can't stand seeing people bandwagon on characters they never touched before just because they received buffs.

So is 3,3 the go to combo starter now? Are the 2,1 and 2,3 openers obsolete?

I can't see how they will ever be obsolete since they are part of our primary grounded mix. The delay leads to mind games and if they block wrong it's gonna be a bad time. 33 is great but you aren't going to be just randomly landing 33.. Its a pressure/footsie string and its nice to make crossup jumpin attempts less risky and hit like a damn truck.

I'm a shit player though so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I can't see how they will ever be obsolete since they are part of our primary grounded mix. The delay leads to mind games and if they block wrong it's gonna be a bad time. 33 is great but you aren't going to be just randomly landing 33.. Its a pressure/footsie string and its nice to make crossup jumpin attempts less risky and hit like a damn truck.

I'm a shit player though so take what I say with a grain of salt.
No, I'd agree with that. Haven't really tested this out yet, but any 3,3 strings seem like they will be what gets you in so you can do your 2,1/2,3/whatever string for your damage.
 
I'm afraid that since sonic fox was seen using her, everyone's gonna hop on the band wagon. Not only that, but that she's gonna get the aquaman treatment after her true cheese is revealed.

I liked that I was maining a relatively obscure character that not many people use lol.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I'm afraid that since sonic fox was seen using her, everyone's gonna hop on the band wagon. Not only that, but that she's gonna get the aquaman treatment after her true cheese is revealed.

I liked that I was maining a relatively obscure character that not many people use lol.
I thought he just picked up the character to fuck with Theo, but I'm seeing on his Twitter that he apparently beat friggin' Honeybee with Canary. I don't know what to think anymore
 

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
I thought he just picked up the character to fuck with Theo, but I'm seeing on his Twitter that he apparently beat friggin' Honeybee with Canary. I don't know what to think anymore
He beat HB in a 5-5. Theo didn't know the MU as he already stated. Even if ppl pick her up there is nothing wrong with that i think it's cool to have lots of canary boyz. But for the bandwagon ones it will be kinda annoying. Dunno what they are bandwagonning tho cus she's not top 5 lol
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
He beat HB in a 5-5. Theo didn't know the MU as he already stated. Even if ppl pick her up there is nothing wrong with that i think it's cool to have lots of canary boyz. But for the bandwagon ones it will be kinda annoying. Dunno what they are bandwagonning tho cus she's not top 5 lol
This is the screen I saw, supposedly from that set. Score said 16-5

Could have been a score carried over from another game though. You're right I guess, what's the harm in more people really?