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Strategy Black Adam Orb Cancel Pressure & Frame Traps

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Posted this in the general thread but should probably be easier to find;

11~orbs allows a free b2 which can not get interupted by anything 6 frames.
b2 being 15 frames leads me to believe;
11~orbs is at least +10 on block

112~orbs b2 is also uninteruptable by 6 frames. 112 is usually -1 so this is a really surprising frame trap setup.
112~orbs is at least +10 on block

22 is +1 on block. 22~ 1 is a frame trap but can be ducked. 22~d1 can not be interrupted.
22~orbs gives a free standing 3 midscreen, or another 22 in the corner where the pushback will not make it whiff.
standing 3 is 8 frames and 22 is 10 frames, so that leads me to believe:
Midscreen standing 3 is the only thing that will reach to check them, but 22~orbs 2 works in the corner.
22~orbs is +4 on block with pushback.

113~orbs allows for any attack up to b2 (15f) and that will still be uninteruptable.
113~orbs F3 is hard to escape. Using batman i could interrupt it with 11 (6f) and d1 (7f) but not with standing 2 (10f). BUT could dash under the f3. Note that armouring the F3 makes this frametrap brutal.
F3 is 28 frames, so;
113~orbs is between +15 & +18


B2~orbs 2 trades with 6 frames. 2 is 10 frames so.
B2~orbs is +4 on block.

2,2,b1 is -5 on block (a reason to press buttons). Cancelled into Orbs it becomes +frames.

d2 is -12 on block (fully punishable). Cancelled into Orbs it becomes safe vs 6f moves.

This is all tested on the patched version of the game, however my frame data could be wrong due to human input times and the 1-2 frame gaps these strings leave. Test them yourself by going into practice against batman and record black adam doing the string, and then try and escape it with batmans normals.

Any questions or ideas for Black Adams pressure should go here!
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
This is really gonna help out the pressure game. So is anything that is +10 or more on block a guaranteed grab attempt?
Anything thats above +4 will be a guaranteed grab, unless they can just frame poke with a 6 frame normal, so +5 would be un-poke-able. You can backdash or jump out here, but it all happens very quickly so its unlikely for now.

+10 would give a throw that you have to tech, assuming throws are 10 frames, but i think +8 or 9 would too depending on the frame they leave the ground after inputting jump, and the startup of backdashes, which i dont know for certain.
 
Anything thats above +4 will be a guaranteed grab, unless they can just frame poke with a 6 frame normal, so +5 would be un-poke-able. You can backdash or jump out here, but it all happens very quickly so its unlikely for now.

+10 would give a throw that you have to tech, assuming throws are 10 frames, but i think +8 or 9 would too depending on the frame they leave the ground after inputting jump, and the startup of backdashes, which i dont know for certain.
Throws are good stuff in this game. Not as good as mk ones, but Adams orb + grab is nice lol
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
GGA HAN Verify?

If this is true you have officially scared me sir. Time to study this matchup.
You can backdash alot of his frame traps, so you can usually get out for free, but on a read its possible to punish some backdashes, if not all.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
I'll add:

-2,2,b1 is -5 on block (a reason to press buttons). Cancelled into Orbs it becomes +frames.

-d2 is -12 on block (fully punishable). Cancelled into Orbs it becomes safe vs 6f moves.
Added in to the first post, nice one!
 

Primiera

Wonderful Woman
*I don't use Adam, just looking into this for a friend*

It seems that Black Adam's prowess is 99% in highs and frame traps over a high/low game. This leads to people naturally blocking high against him a good option, or at least I've found. What really, really strong things can he do to dissuade people from just holding back and looking for a throw? Maybe my friend and I are just looking at it wrong, but it seems (emphasis on seems) he has trouble opening patient players up during pressure.
 
*I don't use Adam, just looking into this for a friend*

It seems that Black Adam's prowess is 99% in highs and frame traps over a high/low game. This leads to people naturally blocking high against him a good option, or at least I've found. What really, really strong things can he do to dissuade people from just holding back and looking for a throw? Maybe my friend and I are just looking at it wrong, but it seems (emphasis on seems) he has trouble opening patient players up during pressure.
Pretty much... He has the damage/frame traps but if he can't open someone up there's no point.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
*I don't use Adam, just looking into this for a friend*

It seems that Black Adam's prowess is 99% in highs and frame traps over a high/low game. This leads to people naturally blocking high against him a good option, or at least I've found. What really, really strong things can he do to dissuade people from just holding back and looking for a throw? Maybe my friend and I are just looking at it wrong, but it seems (emphasis on seems) he has trouble opening patient players up during pressure.
Unlike shazam, black adam can get a free throw from many strings cancelled to orbs, a 23% throw every 5 seconds discourages people to not tech, when they start to unblock to tech they're free to pressure.
 

Primiera

Wonderful Woman
Unlike shazam, black adam can get a free throw from many strings cancelled to orbs, a 23% throw every 5 seconds discourages people to not tech, when they start to unblock to tech they're free to pressure.
So if you activate T right before you throw, they eat the orbs during the animation? That's pretty wicked!
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
*I don't use Adam, just looking into this for a friend*

It seems that Black Adam's prowess is 99% in highs and frame traps over a high/low game. This leads to people naturally blocking high against him a good option, or at least I've found. What really, really strong things can he do to dissuade people from just holding back and looking for a throw? Maybe my friend and I are just looking at it wrong, but it seems (emphasis on seems) he has trouble opening patient players up during pressure.
Very good assessment. But add in the dive kick guessing game: When he jumps, will BA do a regular one or a MB one? (which is + on block), or do a short one that lands right where he started, or just empty jump to bait out MB b3's or anti-airs which grant him black magic/lightning when you whiff. All of those things make him pretty good. Where he seems to lack is if you can get a life lead, he has no way to get it back without taking considerable risks.
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
I believe B2~Trait is more advantageous than +4. Reason being is, when i set the AI to reversal (Flash's DB3), it would back dash my trait set ups that would beat his DB3 reversal, but there were still frames to escape (basically if it couldn't do a reversal it would back dash out). The AI could not back dash B2~Trait, Grab. It like a 4f window, otherwise they could dash out.

His grab is what like 10f? So it's probably closer to +7. B2, much like 112 is also -1 on block. Although cancel advantage varies it should be fairly close as both moves seem to cancel quickly.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
I believe B2~Trait is more advantageous than +4. Reason being is, when i set the AI to reversal (Flash's DB3), it would back dash my trait set ups that would beat his DB3 reversal, but there were still frames to escape (basically if it couldn't do a reversal it would back dash out). The AI could not back dash B2~Trait, Grab. It like a 4f window, otherwise they could dash out.

His grab is what like 10f? So it's probably closer to +7. B2, much like 112 is also -1 on block. Although cancel advantage varies it should be fairly close as both moves seem to cancel quickly.
Dont use the AI, Set the second player to Black Adam and record him doing B2~Trait, Throw and try to escape it manually. Nobody has even confirmed why the AI backdashes, so dont rely on that. Hopefully youre right though, B2~trait is valuable for getting in!
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
WTH are you guys talking about +4 and all that tiny + bullshit, ive set it on sword spin reversal and i can do B2 T B2 with the reversal not coming out if i do it fast enough or stuffing it if i do it slow enough.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
WTH are you guys talking about +4 and all that tiny + bullshit, ive set it on sword spin reversal and i can do B2 T B2 with the reversal not coming out if i do it fast enough or stuffing it if i do it slow enough.
Do it manually on record and then mash out with the other character, dont trust the practice AI to perfectly reversal everything because i dont know if it does!