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Tech Best joker pressure on block

Dr Jackal

Dr__Jackal
Hi everyone,

Happy to see lot of Joker here, as you may know I am not really active on TYM because I have the finish him community to manage. I discovered lot of set ups on Joker too (almost all covered by Cat right now, congratulations I didn't found the "push block trap" and I enjoyed it). I come here to talk about strategy.

What is your best joker pressure on block ?
As far as I am concerned I have several options :
323 teeth
- Poke with d1 several times
- Block ==> Push block trap
- j2 ==> Then b3 and combos
- If the opponent jump back ==> bf3

212 treeth (this one is clearly interesting for the advantage data on block)
Same tactics.

Well ! Here are the basics and I think you have quite the same strategy.
I am trying to set up new mix up with the gun (cancel). Right now the results are pretty good in match. Here is what I do :

example :
212 Gun cancel, dash, B1 Gun cancel, Dash, 323 teeth + (what I describe)
(you can't begin this by 323 because you will be punished easily with a poke)

I think it's an interesting way to use it, I notice an other thing :
212 Gun cancel, backdash + teeth to be safe. You can set up a zoning if needed with your gun.
You are not forced to use teeth, The cool thing here is to see that lot of opponents will try to run on you if the teeth are not used. You have the time to punish the opponent's dash with a full combos.

I tried it online yesterday, really good results for me.

What do you think ? Share your strategy If you came up with something different.

Cheers.
Dr J
 
yeh the pressure stuff is pretty basic now im sure we all take advantage of his many mixups.. but what i didnt read is that you dont use the throw? i think thats quite good aswell offcourse there are many wayys to mix it up but i sometimes poke a few times and combine that with a throw with a teeth right when they are near the corner..

the gun cancel works pretty good yeh..but i never used it for defending purposes since im a trap/rushdown player which the joker fits that role perfectly i dont give them any space..
i notice most of the time they will just stand still ducking once you stand there with ure gun out for longer then a second.. so i just rush in either use a sweep when they are blocking high and when they duck i usually jump in with 3 or 2 to try for a teethloop or lowgas bomb combo..

i dont use that back forward 3 move out of the blue because its really punishable i only use it when i screw up a combo as a last resort.. when they jump back i just jump in with the mighty crowbar
i use the acid flower as the finishing move for any high string when they are blocking and i use a lot of teeths but i never use them for defending purposes..i pretty much dont give my opponent any space to block when they lie on the ground they 80% of the time they get welcomed with a teeth around them..
 
I played a lot with stryker and gun cancel pressure works great in that game because dashing isnt weird like in this game heh.. I tried pressuring with a gun cancel mix with joker, and i get punished easily...
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
tested online with strings that end in a duckable gunshot.

test them offline vs knowledgeable ppl. gun cancels out of strings are gimmicks at best
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
323 teeth is not a good stein on block. Ppl. Who know how to fight joker will punish you while avoiding the teeth as well. 212 is his best option.

I was messing with gun cancels and it can have some benefit.
212 gun cancel dash is safe. Opponent cannot 6 frame punish the dash. This is a good way to bait out unsafe moves or strings from a opponent.

Also a good way to mix things up instead of just doing 212 teeth.

The backslash after gun cancel is a good idea. Didn't think of messing with that. This might be a good way to bait out strings and make them whiff.
Opponent might see the gun and thing you going for a dash up and attack and instead you backdash (the advantage should be great enough to avoid back dash punishes) and you get a whiff punish or a full combo if they did a unsafe move.
Also might be a great way to create space and bait out a jump in which you might be able to AA in time with d2.

Or backdash from the gun cancel and do a teeth while proving some space ( opponent might try to jump in when you are setting teeth, which might still give you enough time to block and push block the jump in attack (yes you can push block jump in attacks) sending them to your teeth you just set)

Although I'm just thinking of these things while at work. Will need to go home and test stuff out.
 

Dr Jackal

Dr__Jackal
323 teeth is not a good stein on block. Ppl. Who know how to fight joker will punish you while avoiding the teeth as well. 212 is his best option.
- Yes if you only consider the frame data, 212 is clearly the best option, you can't be punished by wake up mooves beacause you have the time to block safely. But ppl with high level ppl will not use wake up attack any time, they will : back dash (easy to punish I am ok with that), or poke to break a pressure. Furthermore the last hit whiffs on several characters in the cast if they are in crouch. (let's say it, wellknow characters).
With 212 people can't poke you safely (I need to verify that), it's interesting to give them the illusion that it's possible to set up the push block trap. (I test it lot of time with and it works well. I am not sure the frame data for 323 are really correct in the training mode, you have the time to block if the opponent poke you to break your pressure and that's why I like this string to set up the push block trap. I don't know if you have the time to set up a B3 armored btw.
- It's important to mix the strings to set up traps too.

212 gun cancel dash is safe.
Yes ! I think it's a good way to mix up the 212 string

Well ! lot of things to test as well to set up my final strategy to mix things. Interesting to debate ! Push block trap is interesting to punish some wake up attack but if we think for the future, this trap needs to punish poke as well. We need to verify if the opponent try to punish you with poke if you are using the 212 teeth string (212 create some space between you and the opponent). With 323 the response is clearly "Yes" for the moment. I will verify if the luthor wake up attack works vs the 323 teeth.
 

laudanum09

Darling
Remember guys, there's currently a glitch in training mode where the training dummy is granted some extra frames of invincibility on wakeup attacks so keep that in mind when testing stuff
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
- I am not sure the frame data for 323 are really correct in the training mode, you have the time to block if the opponent poke you to break your pressure and that's why I like this string to set up the push block trap.

323 teeth is unsafe.. youll get punished before you can block after setting up the teeth... but 323 alone is safe and its good to punish d1s that whiff after..

We need to verify if the opponent try to punish you with poke if you are using the 212 teeth string (212 create some space between you and the opponent)..
212 is safe with teeth
 

Dr Jackal

Dr__Jackal
Yup I know 212 is safe ^^, for the moment I have excellent results with 323 even if it's unsafe, maybe because my opponent doesn't know the joker MU pretty much.

Regarding the suggestion with 212 gun cancel dash + pressure on block, I verified and it's unfortunately unsafe. I will certainly use it with a backdash.