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Guide - Hish-Qu-Ten Best follow-up after low plasma?

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Every midscreen lowplasma on hit results in an opponent staggering backwards. The stagger is a problem, because it causes many of Predator's best moves to miss (e.g. 3, 2, b3, and so on). Besides many strings of Predator start high and thus can be lowprofiled with pokes.

The ideal follow-up after a lowplasma is actually what I see as "the missing link" in my Predator Game.

I have been considering a few options, but I'd be happy to hear your opinions as well:

- f4:
This is an advancing mid with fast enough start-up and a hard knockdown, which is great whenever the opponent is trying to jump out. No stamina needed, so it can be used for the PCCs before. Should be slightly plus on block, thus allowing tick throws!

- b1~pcc:
This move might be a forgotten gem. However the blockadvantage of b1 seems to be too little for a guaranteed b3. Without this threat there is not too much the opponent has to worry about when poking.

- F212:
This string is advancing, midhitting and offering a mixup. However I think that Predator can get poked out of it, because of the horrible start-up. The framedata might be misleading, as Predator won't hit a ducking opponent with his first active frame.

- b22~pcc:
This one is interesting. The staggering opponent has his hitbox risen, so that the high-hitting b2 has to be blocked. A well timed b2 will always connect. The window is kinda tight (DON'T mash 2), but it is still doable.

I am also exploring some technique with buffering run during the animation of lowplasma. Theoretically this offers some more options, but during the heat of the battle I can hardly pull them off. I might edit this thread at a later point once I consider said technique viable.

Edit: Yes, 122 and f12 are guaranteed if done correctly. I mostly use these now!
 
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Parasurama

Dragon
So you use 122 and f12 now? Do they reach?
Every midscreen lowplasma on hit results in an opponent staggering backwards. The stagger is a problem, because it causes many of Predator's best moves to miss (e.g. 3, 2, b3, and so on). Besides many strings of Predator start high and thus can be lowprofiled with pokes.

The ideal follow-up after a lowplasma is actually what I see as "the missing link" in my Predator Game.

I have been considering a few options, but I'd be happy to hear your opinions as well:

- f4:
This is an advancing mid with fast enough start-up and a hard knockdown, which is great whenever the opponent is trying to jump out. No stamina needed, so it can be used for the PCCs before. Should be slightly plus on block, thus allowing tick throws!

- b1~pcc:
This move might be a forgotten gem. However the blockadvantage of b1 seems to be too little for a guaranteed b3. Without this threat there is not too much the opponent has to worry about when poking.

- F212:
This string is advancing, midhitting and offering a mixup. However I think that Predator can get poked out of it, because of the horrible start-up. The framedata might be misleading, as Predator won't hit a ducking opponent with his first active frame.

- b22~pcc:
This one is interesting. The staggering opponent has his hitbox risen, so that the high-hitting b2 has to be blocked. A well timed b2 will always connect. The window is kinda tight (DON'T mash 2), but it is still doable.

I am also exploring some technique with buffering run during the animation of lowplasma. Theoretically this offers some more options, but during the heat of the battle I can hardly pull them off. I might edit this thread at a later point once I consider said technique viable.

Edit: Yes, 122 and f12 are guaranteed if done correctly. I mostly use these now!
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
So you use 122 and f12 now? Do they reach?
only after a short run, but then they are guaranteed. however this only works, when you can hitconfirm the low plasma (= expect the stagger state).

when in doubt, i go for 32~plasma cancel. In this case I let the 3 whiff intentionally and use it to advance towards the opponent.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
only after a short run, but then they are guaranteed. however this only works, when you can hitconfirm the low plasma (= expect the stagger state).

when in doubt, i go for 32~plasma cancel. In this case I let the 3 whiff intentionally and use it to advance towards the opponent.
Is the 2 guaranteed for 32? And what what are your options after b22pcc on block?
 
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Poshib

The Artman
- D4 into plasma cancel
- Another low beam
- Run up 21
- Run up st4 plasma cancel 12 mixup
- F4

I dunno about an absolute "best" follow up after a low beam midscreen, but f4 is probably the safest. I think it just depends on the character you're facing or the player if that makes sense. A lot of times I may take that advantage from the low beam and backdash to start up some zoning.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
- D4 into plasma cancel
- Another low beam
- Run up 21
- Run up st4 plasma cancel 12 mixup
- F4

I dunno about an absolute "best" follow up after a low beam midscreen, but f4 is probably the safest. I think it just depends on the character you're facing or the player if that makes sense. A lot of times I may take that advantage from the low beam and backdash to start up some zoning.
I would use neither of these... But this is just my personal opinion... All these option do have some advantages. I just focus on different aspects:

- D4 into plasma cancel --> the opponent is ready to block and this is the most likely move to expect
- Another low beam --> worse than d4 in almost every aspect
- Run up 21 --> why not go for the 122 / 12-lowplasma mixup then?
- Run up st4 plasma cancel 12 mixup --> while this is interesting, I only use s4 it after a JIP. Then again JIP might be an option after a stagger... :)
- F4 --> no mixup, limited damage potential... But when in doubt, F4 should always be considered...

When I want some space for zoning, I stick with the backward jump into an air disc...
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Btw. b2~plasmacancel might be a very strong follow up as well, as it offers plenty of plusframes and should be guaranteed if done correctly.
 

Poshib

The Artman
I would use neither of these... But this is just my personal opinion... All these option do have some advantages. I just focus on different aspects:

- D4 into plasma cancel --> the opponent is ready to block and this is the most likely move to expect
- Another low beam --> worse than d4 in almost every aspect
- Run up 21 --> why not go for the 122 / 12-lowplasma mixup then?
- Run up st4 plasma cancel 12 mixup --> while this is interesting, I only use s4 it after a JIP. Then again JIP might be an option after a stagger... :)
- F4 --> no mixup, limited damage potential... But when in doubt, F4 should always be considered...

When I want some space for zoning, I stick with the backward jump into an air disc...
How plus is low beam now exactly? If it's plus enough to jail into 12 everytime then I'm afraid my timing is a bit off. My whole reason for using D4, 21, and F4 is to avoid any attempt at my opponent trying to low profile me.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
How plus is low beam now exactly? If it's plus enough to jail into 12 everytime then I'm afraid my timing is a bit off. My whole reason for using D4, 21, and F4 is to avoid any attempt at my opponent trying to low profile me.
For what I know you can't jail it, so your opponent can still use armored moves. However jumps and backdashes should get caught. At least this is what I think.

Then again, you bring up an interesting point! The opponent doesn't have enough time to duck the 1 of the 122. I have tested this. Thus I wonder, if this might work like a real jailing string. I can't remember ever having eaten an armored move.

No idea, how one could test this in practise mode...

I had the opponent on neutral duck/no blocking, which worked fine for testing the run-ins. However you would propably need a partner to try doing an armored move after getting hit by a low plasma.
 
I'm very intrigued by the title cause I've also had problems thinking what I should do after a low plasma hits.

The 2 things I happen to do the most are either b22 into cancel, low plasma, or b22d2 (use b22d2 sparingly unless trying to close out a round or if the opponent has no meter cause everybody loves to use armor after b22.
The other thing I use is d4 into disc cause after a low laser hits they are at the perfect range that even if they block d4 most people can't do anything about it at that range and have to respect the disc. I really need to work on running in and pressuring but depending on the mu you might not wanna be in someone face with pred.
 
For what I know you can't jail it, so your opponent can still use armored moves. However jumps and backdashes should get caught. At least this is what I think.

Then again, you bring up an interesting point! The opponent doesn't have enough time to duck the 1 of the 122. I have tested this. Thus I wonder, if this might work like a real jailing string. I can't remember ever having eaten an armored move.

No idea, how one could test this in practise mode...

I had the opponent on neutral duck/no blocking, which worked fine for testing the run-ins. However you would propably need a partner to try doing an armored move after getting hit by a low plasma.
Also you can test this in practice by putting the AI on stand block and jump and hit them with a low laser and see if you can run up and hit them with s1 BEFORE they jump. Either that or record the situation then play as the computer and see if you can mash out armor before getting hit. I'll actually test this later and post what I find. :)
 

Poshib

The Artman
I've been trying b22 and run up 12 here at Combo Breaker in my casual matches and both options seem to be very consistent with no room to interrupt.
 
I've been trying b22 and run up 12 here at Combo Breaker in my casual matches and both options seem to be very consistent with no room to interrupt.
I tested and you can definitely jail b22 and run up 12. I typically do b22 because you can save your stamina for cancels and to jail a 12 you have to almost know it's gonna hit and run immediately.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Guys, I am doing some Predator science again. I might come back to him (even though I love Kano for his simplicity):

I think, we all should look into "b2-plasma cancel" a little further. Rumor has is that said cancel might be ~ +8 and at least it feels like +5. In a perfect world you can jail b2~pcc into the 122 string. This would propably be by far the best follow-up! Mostly because a.) 12~pcc, b.) 12~lowplasma, b2~pcc and c.) 12~ex lowplasma are such a great (hitconfirmable) mixup...

I really have to do some research on this once I manage to get away from playing Overwatch.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
Guys, I am doing some Predator science again. I might come back to him (even though I love Kano for his simplicity):

I think, we all should look into "b2-plasma cancel" a little further. Rumor has is that said cancel might be ~ +8 and at least it feels like +5. In a perfect world you can jail b2~pcc into the 122 string. This would propably be by far the best follow-up! Mostly because a.) 12~pcc, b.) 12~lowplasma, b2~pcc and c.) 12~ex lowplasma are such a great (hitconfirmable) mixup...

I really have to do some research on this once I manage to get away from playing Overwatch.
Thanks. If any string can have 12 jailed into it then it would be awesome but the unfortunate thing about Predator is the fact people can poke and low profile it. This is also the reason why it is probably better than 32. It is faster even though they are both high. I will check my ability to to jail it with b2 pcc. I can jail with s4 pcc into F1.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Thanks. If any string can have 12 jailed into it then it would be awesome but the unfortunate thing about Predator is the fact people can poke and low profile it. This is also the reason why it is probably better than 32. It is faster even though they are both high. I will check my ability to to jail it with b2 pcc. I can jail with s4 pcc into F1.
I totally agree with everything you say. The thing with jailing would be, that the opponent remains in blockstun. For the same reason 4~pcc, f12 is guaranteed. If there is no jailing, the 122 string is still good, but way less useful. However there still remains a mindgame of some sort, because b21~pcc can easily be hitconfirmed into a Combo (e.g. f12~ex scimitar). On block it is one of the coolest tickthrows in the game.

As a result b2~pcc and b22~are a decent mixup!
 
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