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Match-up Discussion Beef Supreme's SZ MatchUp Chart

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I think Smoke MU could be 7-3 in Smoke's favor. I am sure you won't change this, but what does Sub have in this MU besides the corner?
 
Sub Zero beats cage 6-4 imo, one thing you forgot in your write up knoterror is that if cage gets in once, and gets health lead, no matter if it is 1 percent, sub zero has to chase him, and that is not good for sz. Cage is only going to pressure sz as much as he needs to get his health lead, hitconfirm into a full fwd33b3 string and force sz to come to him. You also simplified cages pressure a lot, at the highest level cage has a thousand different ways to beat you pokes, that are all pretty safe vs sz. And sz has serious probelms when he is cornered, he really has to commit to an ex slide a lot of times because cage can jus walk back and start over Of course the same applies the other way, but imo cage does better getting out of that then the other way around.
I definitely see your point. Cage CAN compete and it is winnable for him with the right reads. I didn't mean to imply that Cage pressure is a joke, but EX Slide can really nullify the shit out of it, on block OR hit. That's why I call it a 7-3 instead of worse. Against a high level Sub, Cage just has a hell of a time getting in and has to read like a boss in order to not get EX Slided out of his pressure. Cage can get a life lead, but there's just no guarantee he can keep it like Sub can. Cage has to be on point at all times, working hard, making the right reads while Sub has significant advantage in most scenarios and just poops out a clone. That to me says harder than 6-4, though I will admit it's close.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I think Kang could be 5-5. Sub wins the footsies battle imo because a lot of his normals take priority over Kang's normals. He also has a high hitbox and has a difficult time getting out of the corner with or without meter. The only thing making this match really difficult is his zoning with iafbs, but I feel like it's manageable.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Flame away asshats.

Oh my god I love you lmao <3.

If my opinion counts I think Jade and Stryker are correct although I'm a bit torn on the Jade match up being 5-5 or 4-6 in Sub's favor. If anybody does win it's probably him though.



Could we possibly run Sheeva versus Sub? This match up is annoying and I'm not quite sure of the number, but I am curious about exploring it more because I've played it a lot with Stryker and Jade, but not so much Sheeva in depth.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
K guys, Just got to work an saw all the replies(computer at home is le dead atm) I will reply to all yous guise schtuff throughout the day. I like the discussion. Good shit.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
After running some last night on and offline. I have updated the following. Mil is 5-5, SonicFox5000, based on tools alone, I can't call this in anyone's favor. This is a lame life lead matchup. Nightwolf is 6-4, sub has to respect much of NWs upclose hatchet mixups and he does retarded damage for 1 bar, but other wise its a pretty free 6-4. JC is locked at 6-4, knoterror, while you make a compelling argument for 7-3, I just can't call it that free. Its very hard to get a life lead back from JC who REALLY knows how to lame out sub. If I used .5s I'd say we could make a compromise, but alas. The match up forces both characters out of the typical play style. JC has to turtle and SZ has to rushdown. That fact alone is an issue with calling this 7-3. Neither character can play 'their game'. I may be over simplifying this, but fuck it. I do what I want.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
Oh my god I love you lmao <3.

If my opinion counts I think Jade and Stryker are correct although I'm a bit torn on the Jade match up being 5-5 or 4-6 in Sub's favor. If anybody does win it's probably him though.



Could we possibly run Sheeva versus Sub? This match up is annoying and I'm not quite sure of the number, but I am curious about exploring it more because I've played it a lot with Stryker and Jade, but not so much Sheeva in depth.
Absolutely. I will be on tonight running Jade v sub w/ goldy. I want to run stryker and sheeva w/ you. THen I want to run scorp v sheeva for my scorpion MU chart if you would be so kind.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Absolutely. I will be on tonight running Jade v sub w/ goldy. I want to run stryker and sheeva w/ you. THen I want to run scorp v sheeva for my scorpion MU chart if you would be so kind.
I'll only be able to play for a little bit tonight cause I'm going to be helping a friend and such on MK, but I should be fine to get in a couple games of each with all those characters :).
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
.....
Kenshi 1-9
Kitana & Cyrax 2-8
Skarlet & Kabal 3-7

JC, CSZ, Kano, Quan Chi, Jade, Stryker, Sheeva 6-4

everyone else 4-6

any MU SZ players think is even, is not.