Basically what Shao Kahn is reduced to doing since his strings are bad.

[ty lewis]

eh not really true, I noticed you can usually catch someone trying to press buttons with f2 after a d4 on hit

The move is definitely one of his worst moves. Has the longest startup making it easy to block, hits high so it's duckable, and whiffs on crouch blocking opponents at certain ranges making it even more risky. Only good thing about it is the range.

If I land a D4 on hit then I'm going for B4 which is not only safe on block but on hit gives you 28+ frame advanage which you need for his F4 to come out safely which on block leaves you at +6.

If a person gets hit by Shao Kahn's F2 then they don't know what they are doing as most of their buttons will beat the F2 out. It's begging for an uppercut punish to hit you.

 

[Olcadan13]

The move is definitely one of his worst moves. Has the longest startup making it easy to block, hits high so it's duckable, and whiffs on crouch blocking opponents at certain ranges making it even more risky. Only good thing about it is the range.

oh its for sure one of his worst, but not completely dead cough up hammer. I like to use it until they punish me just to test if they know the MU

 

[Evil Canadian]

If you are relying on F2 at all with Shao Kahn you don't know what you're doing and you're probably playing someone who doesn't know the matchup or is bad.

If you think f2 doesn't work you probably don't know much about proper spacing or getting people scared of b3 and you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Qwark28]

oh its for sure one of his worst, but not completely dead cough up hammer. I like to use it until they punish me just to test if they know the MU

How someone can think up hammer is useless is beyond me. It's literally one of the best moves to close out matches with if the opp has already used their FB, you trade 12% of your hp for 5%.

 

[Qwark28]

If a person gets hit by Shao Kahn's F2 then they don't know what they are doing as most of their buttons will beat the F2 out. It's begging for an uppercut punish to hit you.

"...By person who doesn't understand footsies".

 

[RYX]

How someone can think up hammer is useless is beyond me. It's literally one of the best moves to close out matches with if the opp has already used their FB, you trade 12% of your hp for 5%.

if a move is good after the opponent has exhausted most/all of their options is it really that good? what makes up hammer good in this regard compared to other moves Shao already has?

 

[deathstroke187]

my predictions. everyone who will be playing Shao khan,Jax and Kotal will get mopped at CB just like my last prediction. Watch this.

 

[Qwark28]

if a move is good after the opponent has exhausted most/all of their options is it really that good? what makes up hammer good in this regard compared to other moves Shao already has?

It's 1 resource. And you can do it if you have an overwhelming lifelead, even if they have it.

I outlined what makes it good. You force a life trade or you chip them out for free.

 

[Olcadan13]

It's 1 resource. And you can do it if you have an overwhelming lifelead, even if they have it.

I outlined what makes it good. You force a life trade or you chip them out for free.

i mean yeah its good for that but its definitely not working as intended

 

[Metzos]

Dude, noob’s “9f mid combo starter” is incredibly stubby and truly punishable (not like you or whoever talking about how f3 is -8 lol) at -17 (yes there’s pushback but over half the cast can easily punish it) and the 1+3 is slow to come out giving so much time to prepare for the punish. My point is just that noob doesn’t get to just throw out b1. You wanna talk about Cassie? Go ahead lol.

It’s funny you bring up noob when noob’s gameplan is almost identical to Shao Kahn’s. Noob relies on b2 and d4, and can’t make people stand block, and plays a whiff punish, neutral based game where it’s difficult to open people up but he hits hard when he hits.

"But over half the cast can easily punish it." How and with how much dmg? Unless you mean slides, shadow kicks, sand trap etc. Also do you know how much dmg Noob can deal after a b1, 1+3 on hit? Almost 40% with 1 bar. I ll take that risk if i can deal that much dmg and take 10% dmg.

Do you know that NS does not leave any hurtbox after using b1? He can destroy button mashers up close with proper spacing.

Are you seriously comparing the tools NS has, with the tools SK has?

Noob relies on b2, d4, f4, f2, f3 (probably the best AA normal in the game leading to a shitload of dmg), d3 (why everyone forgets d3 i ll never understand its godlike) and b4. Hell, he can even whiff punish with b1 as well while doing footsies war. Most of his normals leave no hurtbox at all.

SK on the other hand, has b4, d4 and f3. F3 having a 10f startup is the only thing that still makes him relevant.

 

[Invincible Salads]

i love how people are grasping at straws to try and prove shao is fine, your just making it worse. lol

his f2 could be sped up a lil bit tho.

 

[Jynks]

he is fine.. even made A+ tier on Sonic Fox's list....

 

[Invincible Salads]

lmao

 

[ty lewis]

If you think f2 doesn't work you probably don't know much about proper spacing or getting people scared of b3 and you don't know what you're doing.

If F2 works then your opponent is an idiot. As it's one of Shao Khan's most easily punishable moves that he has. When F2 has as much start up as it does there is not such thing as out spacing. I would definitely be using B3 instead of F2. You throwing F2 out is nothing but risk for you as your opponent will always be able to block it or punish it. The string is safe but it kills your pressure and puts you close to your opponent where Shao Kahn is most weak at. F2 itself is one of the easiest moves to flawless block and because of the gap between F2 and 1 they can spend the meter to punish you.

Even Sonicfox pointed out how shitty this move is in his tier list video. F2 is literally nothing but a move you can use against people who don't know what they are doing.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Even Sonicfox

lol

 

[XxTheGoblinX]

eh not really true, I noticed you can usually catch someone trying to press buttons with f2 after a d4 on hit

I get those allllll day and if an opponent is ducking to avoid it there gonna get Shouldered full combo. But yea F2 shouldnt be thrown around like crazy but the move is definitely usable.

 

[Zoidberg747]

my predictions. everyone who will be playing Shao khan,Jax and Kotal will get mopped at CB just like my last prediction. Watch this.

Jackal made it out of pools tho

 

[Invincible Salads]

shao kahns f2 is decent at whiff punishing, but mostly use it to catch people letting go of block in the neutral. still could be a bit faster tbh

 

[Qwark28]

shao kahns f2 is decent at whiff punishing, but mostly use it to catch people letting go of block in the neutral. still could be a bit faster tbh

Who uses a 21f move to whiff punish... You literally have a 16f mid launcher or even lower startup moves.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Who uses a 21f move to whiff punish... You literally have a 16f mid launcher or even lower startup moves.

i mean, if u know you can get it and sqeeze out a bit more damage why not?
but yeah shoulder is probably better for that anyway. They really should make it like 18 frames or something.

 

[Metzos]

Jackal made it out of pools tho

He did? Awesome. Must have been off stream though, didnt see any SK players in stream.

 

[Zoidberg747]

He did? Awesome. Must have been off stream though, didnt see any SK players in stream.

Yeah he lost early on but ran through losers to get the 3rd spot out of pools. They were only streaming winners finals of pools earlier.

 

[Son ov Timett]

So what are your tourney results then?

He beat an online Kitana, can ye show some modicum of respect? I think he's earned the right to piss on a known poster/tourney player (NB Semi Evil Ryu's) two week old SZ for mashing out a poke and pissing away his + frames. Given the fact of being in such a stress free and chill environment as an offline tourney, the gameplay error is inexcusable. Pfft

 

[RYX]

He beat an online Kitana, can ye show some modicum of respect? I think he's earned the right to piss on a known poster/tourney player (NB Semi Evil Ryu's) two week old SZ for mashing out a poke and pissing away his + frames. Given the fact of being in such a stress free and chill environment as an offline tourney, the gameplay error is inexcusable. Pfft

ah ok so tourneys conveniently only matter when you point out that shao won and they don't matter anymore when you analyze why he won

 

[ty lewis]

i mean, if u know you can get it and sqeeze out a bit more damage why not?
but yeah shoulder is probably better for that anyway. They really should make it like 18 frames or something.

Whiff punishing with a move that has over 20 frames of startup is not gonna happen at mid screen. Majority of the time if you try to do this the opponent will see the F2 and duck and then punish you for doing it.

Shoulder charge is riskier but is more reliable as a whiff punish move. Same with B3.