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Question - Smoke basic guides for Smoke?

El_Rubio

Noob
Guys! Can you give me basic advises for Smoke? Or a guide? I´m finding lots of combos and treads, but I´m noob with Smoke.

Which are his MUST LEARN combos?
Which are his USELESS moves?
Is invisibility useful?
Which things should I NEVER do?


Thanks in advance!!
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Go to the combo threads and learn the combos in them. You can either go for damage every time or you can go for vortex. I prefer vortex because I'm a scumbag and don't like outplaying an opponent more than I have to lol.

Make sure you hitconfim your F4D1 every time else get punished. If your opponent is ever respecting you and just blocking, go for a mixup. Just mix mix mix and bake a setplay cake.

If you're fullscreen and predict the opponent will run at you then you can throw a close Smoke Bomb and it'll catch them running.

Smoke is not a complicated character in this game.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Errr.... Smoke is a pretty complicated character in this game....in my opinion anyway , some go to advice tho ... Learn to hit confirm f4d12 , it's a great 10 frame mid to go to any time u land a poke but the string ends -13 or so if you finish it so hit confirm and stop at d1 if they block cuz it's only like -4
When u do hit go for something like f4d12 b21 f13spear
If your ending your vortex in jip 21 ( which u probly should be) remember that f13 jails if you think they will armor. Learn to abuse your gaps and not let your opponent abuse them, example- if you think they will neutral duck the second hit of f43 then use f42 , if you think they will armor f42 use f4d12 and hit confirm. F13xxsmoke cloud is a great string but most ppl know they can armor the smoke cloud , if you think they will , jus finish the whole string f131 , f131 is also special cancelable so if the block the string cancel into phase away and continue pressure with b21xxex spear or ex smoke bomb. Ex spear is safe and ex smoke bomb is plus 5 on block , best to follow up ex smoke bomb with a throw or f4d12 ( hit confirm!)
Same applies for when u b1xxexsmoke bomb for the vortex starter after a jip 21 and they block. And last but not least , use throws a lot! Anytime u land a d1 is a good time to throw , it's only +8 on hit so you can't whiff the throw because of hit stun. I made a thread on here specifically about smokes throw set ups. At the end of the day smoke is all about using gimmicky set ups to make the opponent press buttons.
 

ArmageddonUMK

Hipster Spectral Player
S4 is a pretty darn good anti air, and s1 is very good for anti cross up. Also, don't be afraid to use f3, it can really be annoying, especially against zoning
 

El_Rubio

Noob
Thanks for all your advices! I´m training Smoke, I want to use him against zoning and GM SZ (is he a good choice?) Cause my main is Sun God and it is hard to parry everything online... LOL
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I want to use him against GM SZ (is he a good choice?) Cause my main is Sun God and it is hard to parry everything online... LOL
He's quite possibly the only character you could have picked who doesn't have an easier time than Sun God, against GM Sub Zero
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
With that knowledge, if you are still interested in playing him I'll say some more bout Smoke
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
Guys! Can you give me basic advises for Smoke? Or a guide? I´m finding lots of combos and treads, but I´m noob with Smoke.

Which are his MUST LEARN combos?
Which are his USELESS moves?
Is invisibility useful?
Which things should I NEVER do?


Thanks in advance!!
Must learn combos:
- B21-Trident, covers the most range of any normal advancing mid I can think of, consider this one of your best tools.
EDIT*: I forgot to mention, that while I think B21 is one of the best neutral/footsie tools, it suffers from whiffing on crouch-BLOCKING opponents, it's character specific so if you want to play this variation competitively, you'll need to adapt to this very quickly and if need be: not use it at all (no idea if intentional but it's a huge problem, imo)
- F13-Smoke bomb, amazing punisher into vortex.
Useless moves:
there aren't any that I can think of, learn to use every string and special and keep an eye out for the best situations to use them in (for example, 21 can break 15 frame armored moves on wake-up, Teleport when people are jumping, b3d4u3 has no gaps and is a 15% safe mixup, etc.)
Invisibility useful:
sorta, after a midscreen Air Throw it's pretty much guaranteed (meterless), EX invisibility can be linked after a Trident while keeping advantage but it doesn't mean as much to me as it did when I first discovered his options with it, it's only aesthetic and isn't as threatening as others' invisibility but there are.. options.
Which things should you NEVER do?
many things, one of the most common "mistakes" I see Smoke players do is commit to their EX-Teleport (excluding F21-Teleport), might work for a surprise factor but aware opponents should never get caught with this (especially offline). You'll learn whats right and what's not through experience, though (also Scar plays him the best I've seen anyone else play him in a tournament and he streams on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/khtx_scar).

Thanks for all your advices! I´m training Smoke, I want to use him against zoning and GM SZ (is he a good choice?) Cause my main is Sun God and it is hard to parry everything online... LOL
No, GM loves Smoke.

Make sure you hitconfim your F4D1 every time else get punished. If your opponent is ever respecting you and just blocking, go for a mixup. Just mix mix mix and bake a setplay cake.
Learn to hit confirm f4d12 , it's a great 10 frame mid to go to any time u land a poke but the string ends -13 or so if you finish it so hit confirm and stop at d1 if they block cuz it's only like -4
I keep reading about hitconfirming f4d12, do you guys use monitors by any chance? I'm asking because I've tried learning to hitconfirm this string since day 1 and I still can't pull it off with AI set to "Block Random Combo".
F4D1 is 13 frames; you could only technically hitconfirm from the F4 on hit which leaves you 13 frames to hitconfirm, you all saying you can react to this consistently?

For comparison, Mileena's B12 leaves 11 frames to hit-confirm into Ball Roll, which I think is impossible to do, many people claim Foxy does this "in his sleep" but I don't buy it, I've seen him miss the Ball Roll hitconfirm multiple times and I think this is due to him "hitconfirming" before the B1 hits, which means it's more of a guess based on what your opponent was doing before B1 even connects (or what your opponent is doing after B12).

I think same applies to Smoke but I'm Interested in your thoughts/experience, I play on a 40" TV so I could be wrong here.
 
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God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Ok I'll tell you what I personally think and how I personally play. Everyone seems to do him a little bit different. I agree with Boba that this character is very complex, one of the most in the game, and it's not an empty statement I've learned over half the cast and I'm pretty familiar with what the rest do, Smokes got endless possibilities for creativity in play.

A lot of his depth is in his pressure, which is built off frame traps and spacing traps and input reversing. There is more layers to it than you can imagine, you can just start small and slowly add to your tools tho so don't let it scare you, very basic is 114 forward phase is +4 on block meaning F4 beats every button in the game and hit confirms into full combo so you can force them to respect it. Go from there and build, he has actually endless options with a shitload of his strings and specials, if you want suggestions I can go deeper for you, but you play SG Kotal so you probly know how to work frame data and high/mid mix ups to your advantage

I don't go for the vortex because I feel like his damage is really nice if you don't (~40% for a bar off most key strings and really nice corner game carry), and his neutral is really good so he really doesn't need to try vortex on anyone (except GM Sub lol) he's not like Inferno Scorp, so I just take my damage and my corner and my oki. Personal choice and I'm not saying anyone is wrong for doing it differently, just consider that. Go with what works for you.



Nuetral, I poke with standing 1 string and use D4 as a spacing tool, only ever use D3 when a read of a High to low profile it, I never use D1

F4 is your bread and butter, F13 is sick as well, you should be able to keep your turn after both of them being blocked with smart use of his conditioning off both

B21 is great but do try space it so that B2 connects or they can whiff it by walking forward , now if they armouring this gap (or any other gap that you are worried about) play around with what Phase does for you on this read, its great way of countering a lot armor without necessarily throwing your turn away and leaving you sitting at them blocking on a misread.

F34 I was worried about at first, but after using it, it's like the safest slide in the game. Always delay the second hit, more corner carry that way, and when you do get blocked it's a mix-up - do they wait for your second hit to punish, or are you just gunna hold block? Real cool

Ex phase is great for whiffing shit when you up close, using it defensively when it's your opponents turn or after stuff like a blocked F42 can often whiff stuff and give you full combo just like armor, if you misread it's tricky to punish. For ex phase and just phase in general like pressure phase, remember mixing it up with back phase is your other option making everything your opponent does a risk thanks to the range of B21

Thats basically it, his neutral pretty straight forward other than ExPhase, his depth is in the mix-up/pressure and spacing game, also EX TP is worse than you think in the neutral. Use it sparingly or not at all, he doesn't rely on it like Scorp so should be fine.

If you want BnBs let me know and I'll post mine for you
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
F4D1 is 13 frames; you could only technically hitconfirm from the F4 on hit which leaves you 13 frames to hitconfirm, you all saying you can react to this consistently?
You don't hitconfirm the last hit. You throw out the string and you hitconfirm if F4D1. If F4 is blocked and the D1 isn't blocked then you're not hitconfirming it simple as that lol. Same with Mileenas B12.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
You don't hitconfirm the last hit. You throw out the string and you hitconfirm if F4D1. If F4 is blocked and the D1 isn't blocked then you're not hitconfirming it simple as that lol. Same with Mileenas B12.
I know it's literally impossible to hitconfirm off the last hit.
What I mean is... When F4 hits, D1 gives you 13 frames to input 2 as the hitconfirm (as you can't hitconfirm earlier than an ON HIT F4, otherwise it becomes sortof a guess).
Have you tried the method with AI set on Block Random Kombo? This is the only way to learn it correctly. The only case where I can say I legitimately hitconfirm F4D12 is when I see my opponent doing anything other than blocking before my F4 connects, if that's what you mean then I understand this term of "hitconfirming".
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I know it's literally impossible to hitconfirm off the last hit.
What I mean is... When F4 hits, D1 gives you 13 frames to input 2 as the hitconfirm (as you can't hitconfirm earlier than an ON HIT F4, otherwise it becomes sortof a guess).
Have you tried the method with AI set on Block Random Kombo? This is the only way to learn it correctly. The only case where I can say I legitimately hitconfirm F4D12 is when I see my opponent doing anything other than blocking before my F4 connects, if that's what you mean then I understand this term of "hitconfirming".
I can hit confirm into the full string it in practice mode 10/10 set to random block, using a bottom tier stick, a shitty panasonic knock off brand widescreen, and online practice delay turned on in my settings. It's not an easy confirm but it ain't that bad. The hard part is confirming into string on hit while cancelling into phase on block, I'm about 7.5/10 on that but still working on it
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I know it's literally impossible to hitconfirm off the last hit.
What I mean is... When F4 hits, D1 gives you 13 frames to input 2 as the hitconfirm (as you can't hitconfirm earlier than an ON HIT F4, otherwise it becomes sortof a guess).
Have you tried the method with AI set on Block Random Kombo? This is the only way to learn it correctly. The only case where I can say I legitimately hitconfirm F4D12 is when I see my opponent doing anything other than blocking before my F4 connects, if that's what you mean then I understand this term of "hitconfirming".
Oh, I the wya you worded it made it seem like you were hitconfirming the one hit of the string lol my bad. I misunderstood.

Well yeah the F4D1 is 100% hitconfirmable - I can do it with the AI on random combo. It's like, a bnb thing you need to do with Smoke. I'm using a BenqQ RL2455HM monitor. I dial F4D1 really quickly then if it hits I press 2.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
I can hit confirm into the full string it in practice mode 10/10 set to random block, using a bottom tier stick, a shitty panasonic knock off brand widescreen, and online practice delay turned on in my settings. It's not an easy confirm but it ain't that bad. The hard part is confirming into string on hit while cancelling into phase on block, I'm about 7.5/10 on that but still working on it
Oh, I the wya you worded it made it seem like you were hitconfirming the one hit of the string lol my bad. I misunderstood.

Well yeah the F4D1 is 100% hitconfirmable - I can do it with the AI on random combo. It's like, a bnb thing you need to do with Smoke. I'm using a BenqQ RL2455HM monitor. I dial F4D1 really quickly then if it hits I press 2.
Alright, thanks. Gotta work on that then
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I would actually be interested in that, coming back after a hiatus and I don't know much about the new characters.
No worries. Here's my BnBs for grabbing advantageous knockdown and damage. I take the vortex on F42 tho cause it's such a shitty launch and that's basically all you get.


STANDING STARTER:


any standing starter~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, 4~Phase, 21, F131 = 30-31% Meterless

F131/111/F21~EX-TP, RC, 21, 4~Trident, NjP, F34 = 38-39% 1-Bar



LAUNCHING STARTER:


F42, B21~Spear, JiP, 21 = 20% Meterless (Vortex)

F4D12, RC, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, RC, 21, F131 = 29% Meterless

F43~Throwdown = 18% Meterless

F43~EX-TP, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, F34 = 40% 1-Bar

114~EX-Trident, RC, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, B214 = 31% 1-Bar
Haven't quite ironed out a corner game yet but it doesn't exactly open a world of possibilities, you basically just get back the 1% you lose from no jump in after a spear by adding an extra S4 or 21 somewhere in there
 

ArmageddonUMK

Hipster Spectral Player
No worries. Here's my BnBs for grabbing advantageous knockdown and damage. I take the vortex on F42 tho cause it's such a shitty launch and that's basically all you get.


STANDING STARTER:


any standing starter~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, 4~Phase, 21, F131 = 30-31% Meterless

F131/111/F21~EX-TP, RC, 21, 4~Trident, NjP, F34 = 38-39% 1-Bar



LAUNCHING STARTER:


F42, B21~Spear, JiP, 21 = 20% Meterless (Vortex)

F4D12, RC, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, RC, 21, F131 = 29% Meterless

F43~Throwdown = 18% Meterless

F43~EX-TP, 4~Trident, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, F34 = 40% 1-Bar

114~EX-Trident, RC, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, B214 = 31% 1-Bar
Haven't quite ironed out a corner game yet but it doesn't exactly open a world of possibilities, you basically just get back the 1% you lose from no jump in after a spear by adding an extra S4 or 21 somewhere in there
Whoa never seen those first two combos before, definitely gonna have to try those out. I might be able to help some with the corner stuff. I do (starter)~smoke bomb, s3, 21, 114~trident. I think this alone does around 23% damage. From here, you have all of your standard vortex options (s3 phase, f21 shenanigans, 21, etc.). And since you're in the corner, b2 smoke bomb will combo without meter (not something I'd necessarily rely on, but good to keep in mind). You can also try and bait a wake up by ending in njk~ invisibility. This is 100% safe, and either will get you a blocked (usually unsafe) wakeup, or they'll learn and just sit there, in which case you can just continue your offense.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Whoa never seen those first two combos before, definitely gonna have to try those out. I might be able to help some with the corner stuff. I do (starter)~smoke bomb, s3, 21, 114~trident. I think this alone does around 23% damage. From here, you have all of your standard vortex options (s3 phase, f21 shenanigans, 21, etc.). And since you're in the corner, b2 smoke bomb will combo without meter (not something I'd necessarily rely on, but good to keep in mind). You can also try and bait a wake up by ending in njk~ invisibility. This is 100% safe, and either will get you a blocked (usually unsafe) wakeup, or they'll learn and just sit there, in which case you can just continue your offense.
Ah, someone else who uses Invis! Is that the EX version or the regular? Sounds nice. I often cancel my F131 combo enders into EX Invis, mid screen it's only punishable by a tech roll into EX Slide, but punishable by tech rolling into a lot of things in the corner so I didn't have corner setup for it, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much damage for it. I'll look into your corner combos, sounds promising and I'll see what I think!
 

ArmageddonUMK

Hipster Spectral Player
Ah, someone else who uses Invis! Is that the EX version or the regular? Sounds nice. I often cancel my F131 combo enders into EX Invis, mid screen it's only punishable by a tech roll into EX Slide, but punishable by tech rolling into a lot of things in the corner so I didn't have corner setup for it, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much damage for it. I'll look into your corner combos, sounds promising and I'll see what I think!
Regular invis or EX will both be safe in that setup. I usually use regular invis, since the main purpose of the setup is to bait a wake up. Occasionally ill use EX if I think they'll delay wake up, which essentially gives me an invisible 50/50. Also you'll get about 26-29% damage depending on your starter, which isn't terrible by any means, especially considering that you're going to get a full corner punish if your opponent uses an unsafe wakeup.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Whoa never seen those first two combos before, definitely gonna have to try those out. I might be able to help some with the corner stuff. I do (starter)~smoke bomb, s3, 21, 114~trident. I think this alone does around 23% damage. From here, you have all of your standard vortex options (s3 phase, f21 shenanigans, 21, etc.). And since you're in the corner, b2 smoke bomb will combo without meter (not something I'd necessarily rely on, but good to keep in mind). You can also try and bait a wake up by ending in njk~ invisibility. This is 100% safe, and either will get you a blocked (usually unsafe) wakeup, or they'll learn and just sit there, in which case you can just continue your offense.
So after ironing out his corner game, here's what I got



standing starter~Bomb, 4~Phase, 21, 114~Spear, NjP, F43~Throwdown = 30-31%
(F131/111/F21)~EX-TP, JiK, 21, 4~Spear, 4~Bomb, NjP, F43~Throwdown = 40% 1-Bar
F43~EX-TP, RC, 21, 4~Spear, 4~Bomb, NjP, F43~Throwdown = 42% 1-Bar
114~EX-Spear, walk back, JiP, 4~Bomb, NjP, JiK, F43~Throwdown = 34% 1-Bar


Let me know if you got anything better
 
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ArmageddonUMK

Hipster Spectral Player
I played around myself and I've been using

F43~ExTP, rc, 21, 114~spear, 4~bomb, d2, back throw 1 bar 44%

114~ex spear, walk back, jip, f4d12, njp, d2, back throw 1 bar 34%
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I played around myself and I've been using

F43~ExTP, rc, 21, 114~spear, 4~bomb, d2, back throw 1 bar 44%

114~ex spear, walk back, jip, f4d12, njp, d2, back throw 1 bar 34%
Nice finds. My worry is if you do this often an opponent paying attention will see it coming, tech the throw, leave you with less damage anyway AND stuck back in the corner
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
EX spear isn't needed for for the walk back, JIP.
On 114 or just in general? I find walk back JiP is do-able mid screen against males, but much harder in the corner, and borderline impossible against females before you even touch the corner where I think it IS impossible. Might be wrong though, what have you found?

Either way I think you are right about ex spear not being worth it in the corner