Eddy Wang
Skarlet scientist
Its been almost officially a year since the reveal event which was Januay 17th of 2019 when we were graced with MK11, and ever since we became to have contact with the game in general, either by playing at the event or later on inn the betas, it's safe to say that in a 1 year cycle the game didn't suffer a drastic change until now mechanical wise other than that several characters good buffed, some minor only and some got massive changes making them jump in the tier list.
The game also got an addition of a third variation, which has received mixed reviews as anything in game. Recently i have been way more involved with the game, and played a lot for this KL season currently sitting at Demi god,, halfway to God for the first time, played a lot too a few weeks earlier and went to a tournament securing a second place losing in the finals to geras ethernal coming from losers.
I didn't do this earlier because it would be pointless to talk about the game if i wasn't investing a real time to it as i'm doing now.
So this thread is an invitation for you who reads this message to talk about the game, what you think it doesn't work right now and what areas of the game could be improved, how can the current game shift to a better state if NRS decides to work on a patch 3 or 6 months to this thread, i will share most of the common points that i think we all agree in general, but will also share my point of view on individual ones and why taking a second look to it can be beneficial to the game.
This is what i think its a general concensus of what people don't like as much and could definitely see some changes
1) Poke system
a) i guess it goes without saying, that players in general don't like the poke meta, is it too good to exist and 80% of the cast can't fight it off since there isn't much options to deal with the poke meta, but the problem with the poke meta its that everything revolves around guessing, there is a lot involved here that it's super beneficial to some characters having better options against others even when their poke is guarded, for example.
Some characters have a 7f poke that its -3 on block, why is this broken?
In this game, the average mid starts at 14f execution wise (yes the game startup says 13 but you doing that out of a blockstun or neutral counts one additional frame) meaning, if your character is one of those where their most trustful mid starts at 13f, by default this character is always at +4 or +3 even after you block his pokes, as result the player poking is allowed to mash d1, d1 special or whatever because a) he knows he will crush highs, and b) he knows he is plus against mids of certain characters even withing a 11f mid threshold the risk its still high to the defender.
This should be the only problem right? No, unfortunately, these attacks happen so quick, that its extremely hard to tell when you get hit by one sometimes, so reacting with reversals such as backdash or specials becomes extremely hard to do and its inconsistent as well, this is what makes poke even worse than they already are.
When you think those pokes are already good enough, they come with one more perk, they hit players airbone despite being lows and literally speciall mids, meaning sometimes their range is so good, that renders backdash the only good option available to avoid them useless, but as well, you can't jump or short hop them because a move that it's supposed to hit you while standing on the legs, illogically. hits you in the air as well. so while they poke, they have 60% chance of stuffing a mid, stuffing a throw, a backdash, and even anti-air automatically if the player takes any other action that its not block or flawless block.
How does NRS fix this?
For starters, no one in this game should be hypothetically plus against any character mid for that matter, so d1s should be at very least -7 or -6, especially when they start fast as Geras's d1. No one with a 7f poke would punish them, but they wouldn't act like an all-purpose tool either.
And second, this is more a personal suggestion, and i think this implementation would add one more depth degree in the poke meta, and this is by making the short hops invincible against lows and d1 specifically, so this way, if one knows he can't poke back, he can at east avoid with a short hop which then d1 and d3 become a bit less abusable and indirectly make backdash distance coverage a much usable tools
2) Throws, trying to go in details on why throws are so strong its pointless at this point, everyone knows why throws are so good, they are fast they eat buttons, they tick off everything and it's used beyond the purpose of someone guarding.
how do we fix it: i would say, stop making throws dumb to the point of eating d3s and d1s, throws should specifically be used to break ppl guarding too much, which right now they have a multi-purpose, another good way of fixing throws it's by increasing the window to break them slightly by 2 or 3 frames.
3) Jumps attacks
I will always say no to Jump attacks especially kicks that can be made plus, the good threshold of a jump kick should be 5 active frames,when most of the generic anti-airs such as jabs only have 2, its a bit unfair, reducing the active frame of all jump kicks to 5, would make the jump kicks less effective, if they wanted that plus frame they had to hit deep, which would facilitate anti-air, if they do it early they don't become as plus, but won't hit ppl trying to duck on a high read.
there 3 changes adressed would make the game more tolerable in the current state, more enjoyable, the changes are minor but makes a huge difference, it makes MK11 mechanics more consistent, and if every character plays by these rules, i can guarantee NRS it wouldn't be an issue about game mechanics anymore. In fact i think anyone would enjoy this game without much of these 3 issues alone making a consistent universal mechanic to abide to.
These are things i think personally would make the game a lot better
wakeup invencibility
that feels like a bug characters standing into jumps without getting hit, delayed wakeup with invencibility, something to look at.
Flawless block launcher
No one, i mean no one in this game U2 should be faster than 10f, some of these can even launch d1 on flawless block due the horizontal hitbox, the u2 treshoud should be 10~11 at the fastest
Flawless block launcher part 2
The time between a flawless block and the time to react to it its seamless at times, in situations like these, is where NRS should actually add more helpers, like show the flawless block on a freeze frame for a few frames so players can get a visual aid that they actually flawless blocked something, moves such as jump kicks, first hit strings are some that could definitely have this effect and would help punish these moves more.
Flawless block gapless strings lockout
one of the things NRS could definitely play around with, its how Jade's F2 and Scorpion's B1 are both locked out if a player flawless block it, making impossible to continue to dial after the first hit, i think each character who has a gapless string, should have a similar effect if their first hit gets flawless blocked.
Some projectiles are way too big on hitbox, either that or jump arcs are just terrible enough that you can't jump projectiles on reaction, and even on anticipation, some characters jump with their feet glued at projectile hitbox reach, can't crossup at will, or on reaction because of it
After that, it comes more specific areas in the game, which are more reserved to characters
They are too big to name, generally, i would talk KB requirements, KB damage, fatal blows with pushabacks and regenerations, limitations that some characters do have in tools, combos, or even utility, those are things that could definitely get some review and take a different spin, i feel like the game plays too safe and should definitely allows for players to do more but it doesn't.
But i would like to see, who do you guys think break the rules of the game, and how would you make certain characters better? Since it's kinda hard to follow up on different threads, i though following here what's going on across all forum with those whish lists and stuff would be much more easier
The game also got an addition of a third variation, which has received mixed reviews as anything in game. Recently i have been way more involved with the game, and played a lot for this KL season currently sitting at Demi god,, halfway to God for the first time, played a lot too a few weeks earlier and went to a tournament securing a second place losing in the finals to geras ethernal coming from losers.
I didn't do this earlier because it would be pointless to talk about the game if i wasn't investing a real time to it as i'm doing now.
So this thread is an invitation for you who reads this message to talk about the game, what you think it doesn't work right now and what areas of the game could be improved, how can the current game shift to a better state if NRS decides to work on a patch 3 or 6 months to this thread, i will share most of the common points that i think we all agree in general, but will also share my point of view on individual ones and why taking a second look to it can be beneficial to the game.
This is what i think its a general concensus of what people don't like as much and could definitely see some changes
1) Poke system
a) i guess it goes without saying, that players in general don't like the poke meta, is it too good to exist and 80% of the cast can't fight it off since there isn't much options to deal with the poke meta, but the problem with the poke meta its that everything revolves around guessing, there is a lot involved here that it's super beneficial to some characters having better options against others even when their poke is guarded, for example.
Some characters have a 7f poke that its -3 on block, why is this broken?
In this game, the average mid starts at 14f execution wise (yes the game startup says 13 but you doing that out of a blockstun or neutral counts one additional frame) meaning, if your character is one of those where their most trustful mid starts at 13f, by default this character is always at +4 or +3 even after you block his pokes, as result the player poking is allowed to mash d1, d1 special or whatever because a) he knows he will crush highs, and b) he knows he is plus against mids of certain characters even withing a 11f mid threshold the risk its still high to the defender.
This should be the only problem right? No, unfortunately, these attacks happen so quick, that its extremely hard to tell when you get hit by one sometimes, so reacting with reversals such as backdash or specials becomes extremely hard to do and its inconsistent as well, this is what makes poke even worse than they already are.
When you think those pokes are already good enough, they come with one more perk, they hit players airbone despite being lows and literally speciall mids, meaning sometimes their range is so good, that renders backdash the only good option available to avoid them useless, but as well, you can't jump or short hop them because a move that it's supposed to hit you while standing on the legs, illogically. hits you in the air as well. so while they poke, they have 60% chance of stuffing a mid, stuffing a throw, a backdash, and even anti-air automatically if the player takes any other action that its not block or flawless block.
How does NRS fix this?
For starters, no one in this game should be hypothetically plus against any character mid for that matter, so d1s should be at very least -7 or -6, especially when they start fast as Geras's d1. No one with a 7f poke would punish them, but they wouldn't act like an all-purpose tool either.
And second, this is more a personal suggestion, and i think this implementation would add one more depth degree in the poke meta, and this is by making the short hops invincible against lows and d1 specifically, so this way, if one knows he can't poke back, he can at east avoid with a short hop which then d1 and d3 become a bit less abusable and indirectly make backdash distance coverage a much usable tools
2) Throws, trying to go in details on why throws are so strong its pointless at this point, everyone knows why throws are so good, they are fast they eat buttons, they tick off everything and it's used beyond the purpose of someone guarding.
how do we fix it: i would say, stop making throws dumb to the point of eating d3s and d1s, throws should specifically be used to break ppl guarding too much, which right now they have a multi-purpose, another good way of fixing throws it's by increasing the window to break them slightly by 2 or 3 frames.
3) Jumps attacks
I will always say no to Jump attacks especially kicks that can be made plus, the good threshold of a jump kick should be 5 active frames,when most of the generic anti-airs such as jabs only have 2, its a bit unfair, reducing the active frame of all jump kicks to 5, would make the jump kicks less effective, if they wanted that plus frame they had to hit deep, which would facilitate anti-air, if they do it early they don't become as plus, but won't hit ppl trying to duck on a high read.
there 3 changes adressed would make the game more tolerable in the current state, more enjoyable, the changes are minor but makes a huge difference, it makes MK11 mechanics more consistent, and if every character plays by these rules, i can guarantee NRS it wouldn't be an issue about game mechanics anymore. In fact i think anyone would enjoy this game without much of these 3 issues alone making a consistent universal mechanic to abide to.
These are things i think personally would make the game a lot better
wakeup invencibility
that feels like a bug characters standing into jumps without getting hit, delayed wakeup with invencibility, something to look at.
Flawless block launcher
No one, i mean no one in this game U2 should be faster than 10f, some of these can even launch d1 on flawless block due the horizontal hitbox, the u2 treshoud should be 10~11 at the fastest
Flawless block launcher part 2
The time between a flawless block and the time to react to it its seamless at times, in situations like these, is where NRS should actually add more helpers, like show the flawless block on a freeze frame for a few frames so players can get a visual aid that they actually flawless blocked something, moves such as jump kicks, first hit strings are some that could definitely have this effect and would help punish these moves more.
Flawless block gapless strings lockout
one of the things NRS could definitely play around with, its how Jade's F2 and Scorpion's B1 are both locked out if a player flawless block it, making impossible to continue to dial after the first hit, i think each character who has a gapless string, should have a similar effect if their first hit gets flawless blocked.
Some projectiles are way too big on hitbox, either that or jump arcs are just terrible enough that you can't jump projectiles on reaction, and even on anticipation, some characters jump with their feet glued at projectile hitbox reach, can't crossup at will, or on reaction because of it
After that, it comes more specific areas in the game, which are more reserved to characters
They are too big to name, generally, i would talk KB requirements, KB damage, fatal blows with pushabacks and regenerations, limitations that some characters do have in tools, combos, or even utility, those are things that could definitely get some review and take a different spin, i feel like the game plays too safe and should definitely allows for players to do more but it doesn't.
But i would like to see, who do you guys think break the rules of the game, and how would you make certain characters better? Since it's kinda hard to follow up on different threads, i though following here what's going on across all forum with those whish lists and stuff would be much more easier
