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Match-up Discussion Bad Matchups: How to Deal with them

He gets a combo off of:
B34
312
F2
121
Naked lift
B12F1
B114
B2(Also fully charged one)

I see your point about iAB, but he only has to hit it once before he gets a free b2 mixup.

And with D4 my point is if you think he is going to d4, you can backdash to make it whiff.

He has plenty of combo opportunities
Just because they start combos doesn't mean they're effective at doing so. Like I said, he doesn't have many opportunities to get combos. He has no real pressure or mix-ups to catch you off guard with something.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Just because they start combos doesn't mean they're effective at doing so. Like I said, he doesn't have many opportunities to get combos. He has no real pressure or mix-ups to catch you off guard with something.
If he does a 312, he can U4 to catch any poking attempt or duck blocking. If you block high, he can b34 for a full combo. If you whiff anything up close he gets a free lift. If you get hit by iAB he gets a free jump in or b2 mixup which can lead to another throw. 121 can close distance and get him within 312 range for mixups. He has plenty of opportunities for combos, albeit most of them are not great. But the fact is that one mistake will cost you half your life.
 
If he does a 312, he can U4 to catch any poking attempt or duck blocking. If you block high, he can b34 for a full combo. If you whiff anything up close he gets a free lift. If you get hit by iAB he gets a free jump in or b2 mixup which can lead to another throw. 121 can close distance and get him within 312 range for mixups. He has plenty of opportunities for combos, albeit most of them are not great. But the fact is that one mistake will cost you half your life.
U4 is alright, but you can react to it. B34 is not a low. It's actually *very* high.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Vs. Smoke

Beginning of the match
At the beginning of the match I usually dash forward to try and get in Smoke's face. More than likely the smoke will try and dash backwards, so it will even it up. Just make sure not to dash into a smoke bomb(That would be lulzworthy).

Fullscreen
The majority of this matchup will be chasing smoke down. Basically you never want to be fullscreen, because spark is useless and he can just throw smoke bombs at you. Do not be fullscreen, use dash blocking and dash walking accordingly. The best way to do this is to block a smoke bomb, then dash once or twice. Rinse and repeat.

At Midscreen
Blade charge is a good tool in this matchup. The key here is to be within blade charge range, because after a blocked smoke bomb you can punish with blade charge(It is -9 and blade charge is 10 frames. They can possibly block it but even if they do you still are in their face). Just make sure if they backdash you wont whiff, because if you do you are dead. Footsies may come in to play. Blade charge out ranges any of his normals, as does D4. He does have good pokes in d3, and of course any whiffed D4 is a free combo for him. You have to be very careful playing smoke, as one mistake can cost you a round.

String Breakdown
Sometimes Smoke may come at you with strings, you should know how to punish.

B23- An overhead that is very deadly. When this is blocked you DO NOT try and punish it. Many times smoke will smoke bomb after this string, so you should wait for him to do this and then punish with blade spin or a poke. He can also end with smoke away, but you can blade charge him out of it.

3d12- The main combo starter for Smoke. It is neutral on block and can also be ended with smoke bomb to get punishers. Your best bet after this is to either wait for smoke bomb and then punish, or back dash quickly and block again. You do not want to poke because if you do he can b23 to punish for full combo.

214- Smoke's fastest string. He can either end it with smoke away or smoke bomb. Either wait to punish smoke bomb or backdash. Poking is asking to be punished.

112- I dont think I have ever seen this string, but it is -17, so that is probably why. Punish it with b3 for full combo or whatever you want to.

D4- On hit they get a free blocked b23. Do not fall for the trap of trying to counterpoke with D4, because b23 will get you. Simply backdash, make them whiff, and punish with blade charge. Your D4 outranges theirs but it can be whiff punished.

D3- Very fast with good range. Only gives +3 advantage so do not freak out. Let him poke and backdash to whiff punish. Dont try to counterpoke.

B4- All you need to know is it is neutral. Just take the knockdown, if he tries to oki you can always blade charge or spin for a safer option(he will most likely just dash backwards).

F4- It is slow but it is safe on block(-2). Has a little bit of pushback. Best thing to do is backdash to get in blade charge range.

Spacing
Spacing is everything in this match. You want to be just at blade charge range, where all he can really do is smoke bomb(which does no chip). Smoke will try and space with b23 and other strings, but at blade charge range his strings will whiff and you can punish. His D4 or D3 are outranged by our D4, but it is super dangerous to poke Smoke.

Wakeup
Your main wakeup option is blade charge, especially if he tries to smoke away or backdash. Be careful that you do not whiff on wakeup. If he tries to pressure with strings you can spin as wakeup.

Oki
Smoke bomb is a fearsome wakeup. Smoke away has invincibility frames but you can wait till he appears again and blade charge to get back in his face or punish if he isnt blocking.

In the corner
This may sound crazy, but you DO NOT want to corner smoke in the usual sense. If you get in close to try and frametrap, he can EX smoke away. You want to keep him cornered staying at blade charge range. He is forced to make a move because smoke bomb does no chip, any pokes can be blade charged(they whiff), any smoke away is blade charged, any jump is blade charged etc.

Example(At 1:40, I screw it up but you get the gist):

If you do want to frametrap you will have to get creative(instead of 2,2 1+2 do 2,2 F44 to get them off guard).

When Cornered
EX blade charge can be used to some effect. If you think he will do a string into smoke bomb, an EX charge after the string will get you out. Spin can also be used to punish smoke bomb. The key is to not counterpoke or get caught in a reset.

Anti Airing
Spin can be used to anti air effectively as always. F44 can be used into F4 but will be beat by jumping kicks. To stop a crossover simply spin him.

Jumping and Crossovers
A really bad idea against Smoke. D1 and 2 are great AA for reset combos. Very very dangerous and should only ever be done if you have breaker and are feeling lucky.

Meter Usage
Breaker. Nothing else, ever. (I break this rule all the time, but really you should follow it). You will regret wasting any meter, trust me.

Building Meter
You build lots of meter in this MU. Blade charge will be used to get in and get blocked frequently. Slices pressure can be used sparingly. Sometimes spark is ok if it catches them off guard, if it doesnt parry isnt a huge deal.

Air Throw
Smoke has an air throw that you need to be familiar with:
A. All Air throws are untechable, which means you either stand up or wakeup attack.
B. Most combos are ended with air throw.
C. They will either whiff a teleport(Beaten by any wakeup), or get within b2 or d4 range. If they do this you can blade charge to keep them in check and get close. They also might smoke towards or crossover, spin beats both options.

Keys to the matchup
Save meter for breaker
Stay within blade charge range
Don't try and corner in usual fashion
Don't ever try and counterpoke
Get in close for slices pressure or other frametraps
Dont ever get hit(Seriously though, his resets are what make this 4-6)

Tell me anything you would like me to add.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Whats to say in Ermac vs Baraka that the Ermac player doesnt do ANY max range TKPs and just waits for your max range blade charges, which he can punish on block with his own TKP?

Anyway, TKPs and blade charges arent the only things that will win a fight. Baraka doesnt really have anything else to threaten Ermac with, Ermac is quicker and more damaging. His 121 is + on block with pushback too, so not much Baraka can do.
 
Whats to say in Ermac vs Baraka that the Ermac player doesnt do ANY max range TKPs and just waits for your max range blade charges, which he can punish on block with his own TKP?

Anyway, TKPs and blade charges arent the only things that will win a fight. Baraka doesnt really have anything else to threaten Ermac with, Ermac is quicker and more damaging. His 121 is + on block with pushback too, so not much Baraka can do.
You just don't do charges. A setback, but not as much a game changer as shutting down push.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Whats to say in Ermac vs Baraka that the Ermac player doesnt do ANY max range TKPs and just waits for your max range blade charges, which he can punish on block with his own TKP?

Anyway, TKPs and blade charges arent the only things that will win a fight. Baraka doesnt really have anything else to threaten Ermac with, Ermac is quicker and more damaging. His 121 is + on block with pushback too, so not much Baraka can do.
So you think its 5-5 or 4-6.

Also there is a lot Baraka can do. D4 outranges all of Ermac's pokes. After a couple of those you can f24 to catch duck blockers or b31 if they dont fall for it. All frametraps work wonders on Ermac since he has no real armor. He may have combo damage, but off of frametraps and slices pressure Baraka can do quite a bit of damage while buiding meter. Also it is good to remember that both characters build a lot of meter with TKP and blade charge so a lot of times each will have breaker.

Ive talked to Metzos before and he agrees it is 5-5.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
So you think its 5-5 or 4-6.

Also there is a lot Baraka can do. D4 outranges all of Ermac's pokes. After a couple of those you can f24 to catch duck blockers or b31 if they dont fall for it. All frametraps work wonders on Ermac since he has no real armor. He may have combo damage, but off of frametraps and slices pressure Baraka can do quite a bit of damage while buiding meter. Also it is good to remember that both characters build a lot of meter with TKP and blade charge so a lot of times each will have breaker.

Ive talked to Metzos before and he agrees it is 5-5.
5-5. I ve played this MU against Hidan's Raka and its not as easy as it seems. Both characters have an equal chance of winning.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
So you think its 5-5 or 4-6.

Also there is a lot Baraka can do. D4 outranges all of Ermac's pokes. After a couple of those you can f24 to catch duck blockers or b31 if they dont fall for it. All frametraps work wonders on Ermac since he has no real armor. He may have combo damage, but off of frametraps and slices pressure Baraka can do quite a bit of damage while buiding meter. Also it is good to remember that both characters build a lot of meter with TKP and blade charge so a lot of times each will have breaker.

Ive talked to Metzos before and he agrees it is 5-5.
IMO Its not that Ermac has moves specific to counter Baraka (which is why it may seem more diffcult), its just that what he does have is alot better. Speed, damage and similar range, no need for meter either.
But I'd listen to Metzos if you're talking Ermac.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Im going to a tourney in louisiana this weekend and I know of an Ermac player going, Ill try and find him and get some matches in to see how the matchup plays out. Right now I really think 5-5.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Whats to say in Ermac vs Baraka that the Ermac player doesnt do ANY max range TKPs and just waits for your max range blade charges, which he can punish on block with his own TKP?

Anyway, TKPs and blade charges arent the only things that will win a fight. Baraka doesnt really have anything else to threaten Ermac with, Ermac is quicker and more damaging. His 121 is + on block with pushback too, so not much Baraka can do.
Its not that simple. Baraka wins in sweep range cause of d4. Ermac does a hell lot more dmg than Baraka with his combos yes, but Baraka has much better mix ups when up close. iaFB helps Ermac in this MU only if you anticipate that Raka will attempt to d4 when in sweep range. U4 is much more helpful imo. Same applies with Sonya's, Mileena's and Reptile's d4 as well. His 121 is not +f's on block its 0. The push back it applies though is a very "gtfo me" solution. Also some of Raka's strings are at +f's on block, yeah the starter is high i know, but still that gives him some edge. Also he can punish max range TKP's with EX blade charge and he can also punish regular ones as well. Also EX BC has armor. So imo:

Full screen: Ermac wins (Ermac can very easily tp if Raka throws projectiles. Ofc Baraka can do EX BC, but its not worth it unless its for the killing blow. Better save meter for punishing max range TKP's imo.)

Mid screen: Even (Baraka can punish TKP's with EX and regular BC's on block, but also Ermac can punish blocked BC's to a full combo.)

Up close: Baraka wins (Raka's +f strings and Ermac's hit box make it a bit difficult for Ermac to get him off him.)
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Its not that simple. Baraka wins in sweep range cause of d4. Ermac does a hell lot more dmg than Baraka with his combos yes, but Baraka has much better mix ups when up close. iaFB helps Ermac in this MU only if you anticipate that Raka will attempt to d4 when in sweep range. U4 is much more helpful imo. Same applies with Sonya's, Mileena's and Reptile's d4 as well. His 121 is not +f's on block its 0. The push back it applies though is a very "gtfo me" solution. Also some of Raka's strings are at +f's on block, yeah the starter is high i know, but still that gives him some edge. Also he can punish max range TKP's with EX blade charge and he can also punish regular ones as well. Also EX BC has armor. So imo:

Full screen: Ermac wins (Ermac can very easily tp if Raka throws projectiles. Ofc Baraka can do EX BC, but its not worth it unless its for the killing blow. Better save meter for punishing max range TKP's imo.)

Mid screen: Even (Baraka can punish TKP's with EX and regular BC's on block, but also Ermac can punish blocked BC's to a full combo.)

Up close: Baraka wins (Raka's +f strings and Ermac's hit box make it a bit difficult for Ermac to get him off him.)
This is how I see the MU as well. Although tbh I would just dash up after a max ranged TKP, not going to waste a bar of meter when Ermac has 50% combos. Better to save that for breaker.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
This is how I see the MU as well. Although tbh I would just dash up after a max ranged TKP, not going to waste a bar of meter when Ermac has 50% combos. Better to save that for breaker.
Yes you could do that but still you cannot allow Ermac to build meter though. He can get 40's from pretty much everywhere (AA's, tp on jumps, jump ins etc).
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Yes you could do that but still you cannot allow Ermac to build meter though. He can get 40's from pretty much everywhere (AA's, tp on jumps, jump ins etc).
True but if I block the max ranged TKP and dash forward, I can now punish all the TKPs. I know you can't breaker all of Ermac's combos but to save yourself from 1 or 2 is 50-100% of your life. Worth saving a bar.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
True but if I block the max ranged TKP and dash forward, I can now punish all the TKPs. I know you can't breaker all of Ermac's combos but to save yourself from 1 or 2 is 50-100% of your life. Worth saving a bar.
Indeed. You need to know which combos you must break though. Many dont understand the difference there, but thats another subject.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Indeed. You need to know which combos you must break though. Many dont understand the difference there, but thats another subject.
Well yeah. I mean if you get a jip a good ermac will get 50% at least, while a simple 31 or 12 only nets you around 40%.
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
Its not that simple. Baraka wins in sweep range cause of d4. Ermac does a hell lot more dmg than Baraka with his combos yes, but Baraka has much better mix ups when up close. iaFB helps Ermac in this MU only if you anticipate that Raka will attempt to d4 when in sweep range. U4 is much more helpful imo. Same applies with Sonya's, Mileena's and Reptile's d4 as well. His 121 is not +f's on block its 0. The push back it applies though is a very "gtfo me" solution. Also some of Raka's strings are at +f's on block, yeah the starter is high i know, but still that gives him some edge. Also he can punish max range TKP's with EX blade charge and he can also punish regular ones as well. Also EX BC has armor. So imo:

Full screen: Ermac wins (Ermac can very easily tp if Raka throws projectiles. Ofc Baraka can do EX BC, but its not worth it unless its for the killing blow. Better save meter for punishing max range TKP's imo.)

Mid screen: Even (Baraka can punish TKP's with EX and regular BC's on block, but also Ermac can punish blocked BC's to a full combo.)

Up close: Baraka wins (Raka's +f strings and Ermac's hit box make it a bit difficult for Ermac to get him off him.)
Exactly how I see the MU as well. I grind this matchup A LOT with Big D, and he and I both agree it's 5-5 (possibly even 6-4 in Raka's favor).
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Exactly how I see the MU as well. I grind this matchup A LOT with Big D, and he and I both agree it's 5-5 (possibly even 6-4 in Raka's favor).
Hmm dont know about 6-4 Raka. You should take into account that Ermac requires meter for breaker only, his dmg out put is insane, while Baraka on the other hand needs bars for EX BC's and breaker. Also like i said before many of Raka's strings are high, which means they can be uppercutted on reaction or down poked. Still though Raka has a slight advantage up close, cause of his low, medium mix ups.