What's new

Tech - Cyber Sub-Zero B2 50/50 Setup

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
If you can't watch the video: after doing the traditional bomb setup, use EXBomb instead. Follow with b2 or b2~Slide.

Combo: starter~Ice Ball, jip, b3u2~DK, f43~DK, NJP, f2, EXClose Bomb.



Assuming the opponent respects your options in the corner after the EXBomb is placed, CSZ can create a 50/50 with b2. B2 is a whiff punisher that is -10 on block and can be cancelled. By itself the move is an overhead.

B2 hits: the opponent is combo'd into the Puddle. CSZ does a jump-in punch (jip) and from there he has several options. Jip, 114~Slide does 31% total. Jump-in punch into a slightly delayed b1 or b3 jail and the opponent must guess; nothing in the game can escape this. A jip into a throw attempt does 35% total (23% + the 12% throw).

Combo in video: b2, f43~DK, 21, [opponent falls into Puddle], jip.

B2~Slide hits: the opponent is put into a hard knockdown state. With the Puddle beneath them they cannot wake up without meter, and if the armor they choose to use has only 1 hit then it can be broken. If you time b2 immediately after the Slide connects, then it creates a very ambiguous unblockable that does 26%. Could do more with experimentation?

Combo in video: b2, f43~DK, 21, 114~Slide.

*pretend it's orange

Also this person asked to be tagged. Here ya go buddy.
@TheGangstaFace
 
Last edited:

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
If you can't watch the video: after doing the traditional bomb setup, use EXBomb instead. Follow with b2 or b2~Slide.

Combo: starter~Ice Ball, jip, b3u2~DK, f43~DK, NJP, f2, EXClose Bomb.



Assuming the opponent respects your options in the corner after the EXBomb is placed, CSZ can create a 50/50 with b2. B2 is a whiff punisher that is -10 on block and can be cancelled. By itself the move is an overhead.

B2 hits: the opponent is combo'd into the Puddle. CSZ does a jump-in punch (jip) and from there he has several options. Jip, 114~Slide does 31% total. Jump-in punch into a slightly delayed b1 or b3 jail and the opponent must guess; nothing in the game can escape this. A jip into a throw attempt does 35% total (23% + the 12% throw).

Combo in video: b2, f43~DK, 21, [opponent falls into Puddle], jip.

B2~Slide hits: the opponent is put into a hard knockdown state. With the Puddle beneath them they cannot wake up without meter, and if the armor they choose to use has only 1 hit then it can be broken. If you time b2 immediately after the Slide connects, then it creates a very ambiguous unblockable that does 26%. Could do more with experimentation?

Combo in video: b2, f43~DK, 21, 114~Slide.

*pretend it's orange

Also this person asked to be tagged. Here ya go buddy.
@TheGangstaFace

This is a super good set-up and looks swaggy.

How does delayed wake-up effect the combo? will the unblockable still hit? The second combo looks like you can jump pretty easy but thats not always the case.

Also a super shame that the reset is punishable on block but would be pretty nuts if it wasn't.

edit: Maybe someone who is more tight with there timings can but the slide doesn't stop jump out. There is also a gap to jump out after slide hits you before frost aura activates. I can also NJP at the start as cyrax and not get frozen but full combo cyber sub; this is a problem because i think this counters jump kick after B2 and maybe even raw b2 aswell (dont quote me on that).

my execution must be way off but there isn't enough hit adv to guarantee anything. It looks cool, ill give it that and if you try to block overhead and not disrespect you're gonna have a bad time.

The jump punch reset is top tier stuff though I think good find. Making your opponent respect your corner game is going to require another set-up (you do mention this set-up is for a conditioned opponent so I'm not trying to be mean!) its important to know the set-ups weaknesses so as a CSZ you can cover your options.
 
Last edited:

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
None of this is guaranteed. However there are a few things to note.
The opponent can jump out of this. But if you do b2~Ice Ball you can freeze them just above your head.


Also a super shame that the reset is punishable on block but would be pretty nuts if it wasn't.
It's funny you should mention that. I had a bunch of clips showing different characters punishing or attempting to punish the b2~Slide setup. On block some moves were only able to punish when done very quickly.

For instance, Cassie can punish with b1 only if there is no delay whatsoever in her execution, and she can't punish with anything~Flipkick because she'll land on the Puddle. Lao can't punish with b1, s1, or any stationary normal. F23, b321, and EXSpin work.

Good news is that if the opponent jumps you're safe regardless of which b2 option you choose. You'll just skate under the opponent's jump arc.

*pretend it's orange
 

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
The reason these setups have any merit whatsoever (including this one) is because the opponent has a bomb underneath them that IIRC explodes in approx. 1.66 seconds, and they know that you have a 7f starter, and they also know you have the power to read their wake ups.

I was thinking about making a video or something explaining CSZ's corner game in detail. Let me paint a picture. You have the opponent in the corner and you combo them into a bomb setup, nothing fancy.

If they try to jump:

  • s1/21 will catch them and can be linked into a throw. We see Scar do this regularly as Smoke.
  • NJP will catch them.
If they try to press a normal:
  • CSZ has a 7f jab
If they delay their wake up then it's a visual queue that you lead the offensive.

If they do nothing:

  • b3d4 unblockable
  • b1~Slide combo
  • further blockstrings or a throw attempt
  • EXBomb into b2/b2~Slide (the topic of this thread)
Even going for the damage ender (114~Slide) instead of a setup has the same principle. After Slide a delayed b1 will hit the opponent meaty. B1 is 22f so that should give you an idea of how plus you are. But it isn't about that, it's rather about how safe you are. Block a single armored wake up and they'll be punished and put in the same scenario. It gets this idea into their heads that burning meter isn't the best option and that escape should come from speed or mobility rather than guts. Thus, even during bomb setups (which, by the way, can be as high as +2, low as -2-ish depending on how high you connect the NJP)... they delay the wake up. They wake up pressing their fastest normal. They wake up into a forward jump or an instant-air NJP. CSZ is in control.

*in my head all of that is orange
 

Sunny_D

Green Arrows personal Shooty guy
Heres a setup for a 50/50 i do but is a lil bit more plus. Starter into icebomb,b3u4 divekick njp into a deep njp/njk then either icebomb or ex icebomb, delay the mixup by 1 second into either instant air ex divekick (i think normal bomb will combo this might have to be ex aswell) or b3d4/just b3 if delayed. Can grant you around 70 percent and 80 percent for 1-2bars and a couple drones! Your set up is actually pretty useful for combos that go for more damage then mine an still get a setup.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
The reason these setups have any merit whatsoever (including this one) is because the opponent has a bomb underneath them that IIRC explodes in approx. 1.66 seconds, and they know that you have a 7f starter, and they also know you have the power to read their wake ups.

I was thinking about making a video or something explaining CSZ's corner game in detail. Let me paint a picture. You have the opponent in the corner and you combo them into a bomb setup, nothing fancy.

If they try to jump:

  • s1/21 will catch them and can be linked into a throw. We see Scar do this regularly as Smoke.
  • NJP will catch them.
If they try to press a normal:
  • CSZ has a 7f jab
If they delay their wake up then it's a visual queue that you lead the offensive.

If they do nothing:

  • b3d4 unblockable
  • b1~Slide combo
  • further blockstrings or a throw attempt
  • EXBomb into b2/b2~Slide (the topic of this thread)
Even going for the damage ender (114~Slide) instead of a setup has the same principle. After Slide a delayed b1 will hit the opponent meaty. B1 is 22f so that should give you an idea of how plus you are. But it isn't about that, it's rather about how safe you are. Block a single armored wake up and they'll be punished and put in the same scenario. It gets this idea into their heads that burning meter isn't the best option and that escape should come from speed or mobility rather than guts. Thus, even during bomb setups (which, by the way, can be as high as +2, low as -2-ish depending on how high you connect the NJP)... they delay the wake up. They wake up pressing their fastest normal. They wake up into a forward jump or an instant-air NJP. CSZ is in control.

*in my head all of that is orange
Yes this is all correct but the B2 happens as they are choosing their wake-up option. If i see B2 at all Im going to NJP. If i see no B2 im going to either d1/d3 then block the low bomb. Or I can just grab on wake-up if you stand there. Then there is armor, then there is character specific stuff teleports/slides that may enter the mix.

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is. If your frame advantage blows from the F2 into close bomb it opens up so many more options for your opponent. You're making the corner game harder than it needs to be, this is MKX and its full of a lot of really oppressive set-ups footsie tools. Make the set-up braindead, make the opponent make the read.

A good corner game would have two set-ups, a conditioning set-up that covers most the opponents options and is safe for armor baits and wake-up throw and a cash out set-up (like shown here) where once the opponent has it in their heads that they cannot disrespect the set-up you end the round with it (provided no breaker).

The current conditioning set-up has no mix-up 21slide? And if they do stand up for the overhead its a poor cash out.

Deep NJP close bomb is less damage but sets-up F43 dive kick for a HTB launcher and you can EX bomb before hand to stay safe from delayed wake-up. If they think "I'm just gonna delayed wake-up to stop this, that's when you hit them with the B3d4
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Oh yeah btw for future reference when you make a thread, the tags section doesn't work lol. So basically I didn't get notified
 

SnowboardRX

^ You have no idea who this guy is ^
This Zionix guy seems to know everything about CSZ and how you're supposed to play him. (Everyone else is wrong). Dude, make your own end all-be all thread for this character and how you're "supposed" to play him. That way you don't have to go into every CSZ thread and tell everyone why their way of playing is incorrect.
:DOGE
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
This Zionix guy seems to know everything about CSZ and how you're supposed to play him. (Everyone else is wrong). Dude, make your own end all-be all thread for this character and how you're "supposed" to play him. That way you don't have to go into every CSZ thread and tell everyone why their way of playing is incorrect.
:DOGE
I'm just not naive enough to think that a weak set-up is going to win any tournaments against a competent player. People can do what they want, but they should not preach what they practice unless it actually works and isn't a gimmick.

I literally only talk corner set-ups as-well, what CSZ players do midscreen I have no better answer for but when it comes to corner set-ups, there is no reason for players who are trying to learn CSZ to learn a gimmicky combo with a ton a holes when there are better alternatives.

I main Cyrax and have helped a lot of his players with improved combos, no gimmicks needed. As I have always said, nobody needs to use anything I post but when you test the set-ups you will soon realize that they are the most optimal way to play the character, (that has been found so far).