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Match-up Discussion Ares-Superman is the worst match up in the game

4x4lo8o

Noob
The title is a bit hyperbolic - I don't actually know enough about other character's match ups to say that this is definitively the worst in the game - but this match up is completely awful for Ares.

f23

f23~breath, f23~breath is basically a block infinite if you don't have meter. d1 doesn't get you out, s1 trades, you can't jump out. MB b3 doesn't even work because the second hit of f23 hits before b3. Your options to get out are MB f3, pushblock, or get hit by breath. If you block f23~breath at the beginning of the match you'd better hurry up and get hit by breath before he pushes you into the corner. Even after getting hit by breath he can dash twice and be in f23 range by the time you get up, but at least you can try a wake up or something. If he gets you in the corner and you don't have meter, the match is over. He'll f23~breath until he hits you and when he hits you he's doing 70%, you have no options. Chip damage doesn't build meter, so you'll never get the meter you need to get out.

I forgot to show back dashing(because Ares back dash is so bad that it I forget it exists) and I'll upload a video later, but for now take my word for it that if you back dash the distance is so short and the recovery so long that if you back dash after breath you can't do anything but block f23~breath again.


Trying to zone


Ares doesn't actually win the zoning war in this match up, but he can kinda pretend to compete and zoning's more work for Superman than f23~breath so any smart Superman player is going to come in. And coming in for him is a joke. On top of Ares general poor mobility and inability to run away he can jump over all of Ares zoning. From more than half screen if jumps a fireball he can air dash and Ares can't aa the jump in, so Ares ends up in the block infinite and has to spend meter. Superman can jump over the axe on reaction, and punish if he's in the right range.
Superman also gets a free dash after crouching any of Ares fireballs, and it takes about 3 dashes to get in from full screen.


Blowing up wake ups
This is pretty self explanatory. As if Ares wake ups weren't awful enough as is(see this thread), Superman has easily exploitable glitches that crush Ares wake up game. I didn't record it, but f23 also usually goes under wake up close GS. Full screen you have to block a laser and close up you have to block f23~breath if you get knocked down.


There's lots of other dumb shit in this match up - like how Superman's floating hitbox ruins the range on Ares d1 - but that's all I felt like recording right now. I'm sure sometime next week I'll try playing this match up again and remember a bunch of other ridiculous stuff about this match up and the size of this post will double. Everything about this match up is retarded, Ares has no good options anywhere on the screen.

AK Reayon
The Gabriel
EGP Wonder_Chef
WannabePlayer
Dislexsik
Red Reaper
DownfouralitY
xInfra Deadx
Astrocytic
Mr Aquaman
Eminent
Doombawkz
KingHippo
CitizenSnips58
 

Flagg

Noob
There are dumb characters in the game and superman is one of them.

This is not the worst match up in the game though.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
There are dumb characters in the game and superman is one of them.

This is not the worst match up in the game though.
I doubt it. I don't know of any other character that gets locked down by anything as badly as Ares does by f23 breath. There's lots of bad match ups, and I'm sure Ares-Superman isn't the only one that's near unwinnable, but you haven't made any compelling argument that there's anything worse.

grundy vs superman
grundy vs bladam
Grundy at least has high damage and good oki, all he needs is a few lucky guesses and he can take a match(or at least a round). He also has options to deal with f23~breath. Although if you disagree feel free to make your own thread and videos about how bad those match ups are.
 

Flagg

Noob
I doubt it. I don't know of any other character that gets locked down by anything as badly as Ares does by f23 breath. There's lots of bad match ups, and I'm sure Ares-Superman isn't the only one that's near unwinnable, but you haven't made any compelling argument that there's anything worse.



Grundy at least has high damage and good oki, all he needs is a few lucky guesses and he can take a match(or at least a round). He also has options to deal with f23~breath. Although if you disagree feel free to make your own thread and videos about how bad those match ups are.
I think lobo vs gl is harder. A purely zoning zod is really frustrating for lobo as well.

I really hate the dash system in this game.
 
Close MB godsmack on reaction maybe?

Might be more reliable than mb b3/f3 and ares gets much more damage off it.

Though maybe I should replace "on reaction" with "on lucky guess"... Hard to react to a 8 frame move.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Close MB godsmack on reaction maybe?

Might be more reliable than mb b3/f3 and ares gets much more damage off it.

Though maybe I should replace "on reaction" with "on lucky guess"... Hard to react to a 8 frame move.
To get out of f23~breath?

I haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure the armor takes too long to activate and you'll get knocked and even if it doesn't Supes probably recovers fast enough to jump and full combo punish. Also, Ares doesn't get much more off a GS than a f3.


I'll test it when I go to record back dashing though, it's worth looking at
 
To get out of f23~breath?

I haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure the armor takes too long to activate and you'll get knocked and even if it doesn't Supes probably recovers fast enough to jump and full combo punish. Also, Ares doesn't get much more off a GS than a f3.


I'll test it when I go to record back dashing though, it's worth looking at
Just tested it, and you're right, armor takes too long to activate. *sigh*
 
f23 is a inf on joker as well since he cant backdash whats your point again? at least ares has a teleport to get around superman laser show
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
f23 is a inf on joker as well since he cant backdash whats your point again? at least ares has a teleport to get around superman laser show
Joker has parry(plus d1?), and having that one meterless option that will beat out an immediate f23 followup after breath is a huge deal. It establishes a guessing game with what you're going to do and gives Superman a reason to think about doing something else. With Ares that doesn't exist

Maybe it's just because I suck, but using Ares 20 frame start up teleport on reaction to 25 frame start up lasers hasn't worked out well for me
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Why am I tagged? Lol.
To that point, Bane's b.1 block thing would also be an "infinite" since it comes out in 1-5 frames
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Why am I tagged? Lol.
To that point, Bane's b.1 block thing would also be an "infinite" since it comes out in 1-5 frames
I tagged you because I knew people would be coming in here saying the worst match up in the game was Superman-Bane and you would enjoy telling them otherwise. And I like you.

I don't know what Bane's b1 block thing is, but I suspect Ares can get out of it without using meter if he decides to do it repeatedly