General/Other Are Smoke players the biggest downplayers in the community?

[RiBBz22]

Yes exactly d4 beats kl's 1 and 2 all day and kung lao does have to throw out random spins. I main both smoke and kl and i know for sure its not as bad as everyone says. It sounds like you just need to level up in this match up.

Maybe you aren't playing very good Kung Lao's. I am not saying Smoke has absolutely no chance in this matchup, what I am saying is that it is heavily in KL's favor.

When you talk about leveling up in the match really doesn't add much to this discussion. Any player can level up to better the odds of bad matchups, but this DOES NOT change what the matchup is. The matchup is what we are discussing, not how to approach it and strategies to make it easier.

 

[THTB]

KL doesn't ever have to spin...wtf? The only time he should be spinning it's if he needs the 6f attack or for AA. Smoke is only faster in the pokes department.

Any character can d4 under KL jabs...but you aren't always gonna be able to do that.

 

[LaR]

Ok, so smoke avoids a 1/2 and gets a d4 to hit. he now has a chance to unsafely 50/50 Lao due to SB being punishable. b23 -8, b23~sb -9, b23~smoke away lets him teleport in for free. d4 on hit gives 4% damage and +12 advantage into another 50/50 situation. d4 on block leaves you neutral, meaning that since you are fighting lao you MUST BLOCK because his normals are faster than yours... you could try to neutral duck but that can get blown up by spin or just downpokes that give hella advantage on crouch hit... I see what you're saying and how it could work but I just see too many places for smoke to get blown up.

But, anything is better than just stiting there and blocking and getting raped, so at least if you make good reads on when to d3/d4 I suppose Lao is less scary in that regard

If smoke lands his d4 he has loads of safe options.

d4
b2
b23 smoke away ( Im pretty sure you can punish lao's tele or at least d3 it if he try's to tele after this)
214
3d12

Kung Lao has to take risks with spin and the risk reward is heavilly in smokes favour.
If you block his tele instant 3 the only thing you have to worry about is spin or standing 3.
you can punish him with d4/d3 if he does 11 or 21 after the tele 3 and d1 will AA if they try crossover.


You just have to force Lao to random spin by constantly using low pokes and this match up is not so bad.
The only problem Smoke has in this match is chasing Lao and not having a fast uppercut but he makes up for these problems with his resets.

 

[RiBBz22]

KL doesn't ever have to spin...wtf? The only time he should be spinning it's if he needs the 6f attack or for AA. Smoke is only faster in the pokes department.

Any character can d4 under KL jabs...but you aren't always gonna be able to do that.

Thank you for seeing the craziness of that post.

 

[RiBBz22]

If smoke lands his d4 he has loads of safe options.

d4
b2
b23 smoke away ( Im pretty sure you can punish lao's tele or at least d3 it if he try's to tele after this)
214
3d12

Kung Lao has to take risks with spin and the risk reward is heavilly in smokes favour.
If you block his tele instant 3 the only thing you have to worry about is spin or standing 3.
you can punish him with d4/d3 if he does 11 or 21 after the tele 3 and d1 will AA if they try crossover.


You just have to force Lao to random spin by constantly using low pokes and this match up is not so bad.
The only problem Smoke has in this match is chasing Lao and not having a fast uppercut but he makes up for these problems with his resets.

So Smoke's punish is a d4 and KL's punish is a spin and full combo and this match isn't that bad. If you block is tele and instant 3 you are jailed into a block string which builds KL a bar of meter.

-If your opponent starts reading d4 and catches you at neutral you are screwed
-If you read that KL is duck blocking you try to punish with the 15 frame b23 overhead string which the KL could react to in enough time to spin you out of it.

 

[BTK HYENA]

*clears throat*

 

[LaR]

So Smoke's punish is a d4 and KL's punish is a spin and full combo and this match isn't that bad. If you block is tele and instant 3 you are jailed into a block string which builds KL a bar of meter.

-If your opponent starts reading d4 and catches you at neutral you are screwed
-If you read that KL is duck blocking you try to punish with the 15 frame b23 overhead string which the KL could react to in enough time to spin you out of it.

so all this time you thought instant 3 jails into a blockstring?. No wonder you hate this match so much. After the instant 3 is blocked you are at 0. Only the late 3 jails

 

[LaR]

KL doesn't ever have to spin...wtf? The only time he should be spinning it's if he needs the 6f attack or for AA. Smoke is only faster in the pokes department.

Any character can d4 under KL jabs...but you aren't always gonna be able to do that.

Kung Lao does have to random spin its what makes him so scary every good Kung Lao random spins.

 

[RiBBz22]

so all this time you thought instant 3 jails into a blockstring?. No wonder you hate this match so much. After the instant 3 is blocked you are at 0. Only the late 3 jails

Same difference. What can you do when you are at 0 against Kung Lao? Get spun, get combo'd?

 

[TheW1tchDoctor]

M2Dave still at this shit? I vote M2Dave as the least flexible MK player. Has a bad matchup, doesn't adjust gameplay, doesn't pick up a new character, doesn't stop bitching about it. And then talks shit about EVERYBODY?! KH Scar is gonna blow your dumbass up.

 

[LaR]

Same difference. What can you do when you are at 0 against Kung Lao? Get spun, get combo'd?

read my post again you have great options after a blocked tele 3. also now your saying get spun i thought kl didnt have to random spin?.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

My thoughts on Smoke:

• #6 in the game
• Loses to Jax, Sonya and maybe cage 4-6
• Loses to Lao and Kabal 3-7.
• He beats Freddy 7-3 or worse... he's just too easy to space out Freddy literally needs to take risky jumps and risky 22[1+2]...

I don't see in any way shape or form how Lao can go 5-5 with that kind of mobility, the jailing jabs, the divekick to punish sb on reaction, the roll to control his spacing even further, and Smoke's lack of pressure / chip on his safe blockstrings. (Ex. 21[1+2], 2121212) He makes it hard for Smoke to runaway, even at a +3 advantage from a D3 he can throw out a 2 and smck your B2 in the face because of it's superb range and speed. Honestly, you could argue it isn't a 3-7, but i personally don't feel it's a 5-5.... He builds more meter, has better pressure and gets in too easy imo.

Same goes for Jax. It's hard to keep him away when he can superman any Smokeballs on reaction and F413 jails. You need to keep running from Jax or play risks. If you run your cornering yourself and he can then reset you to hell.

Honestly Smoke's reset does help a lot in all of the MU's, before i thought it wasn't as big a deal. I mean, without he's still good, but a few MU's would become worse imo. Resets are the only thing keeping him in the Kabal MU.

Wafflez HD Smoke FrothyOmen KT Smith RiBBz22 matterovermind

any thoughts on Smoke, or disagreements? Just curious on every elses thoughts about him.

I 100% agree with all of this

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Just keeping it real for a second

For all that bitch about Kenshi and Freddy just pick up smoke, LBSH MK9 tourneys need more smoke players and its a great way to have an answer for kenshi

Kenshi/Smoke 5-5
Freddy/Smoke 7-3

 

[TakeAChance]

I 100% agree with all of this

Seconded.

 

[M2Dave]

Just keeping it real for a second

For all that bitch about Kenshi and Freddy just pick up smoke, LBSH MK9 tourneys need more smoke players and its a great way to have an answer for kenshi

Kenshi/Smoke 5-5
Freddy/Smoke 7-3

Good point.

These fools complain about Freddy and Kenshi when they have one of the scrubbiest anti-zoning characters in fighting game history.

 

[Sasarix]

LOL a Freddy player calling other ppls characters scrubby LOL

 

[RiBBz22]

Good point.

These fools complain about Freddy and Kenshi when they have one of the scrubbiest anti-zoning characters in fighting game history.

We don't complain about either of these characters.

 

[xSMoKEx]

It gets them to start baiting it out, because it's a knockdown to help get away, so they'll stop short or spend armor.

I agree, a knockdown is always better than being stuck in his pressure xD However, me personally, i'd rather save the meter for breaker or a reset. Smoke doesn't run from Jax too well either so the knockback isn't as big as it would be vs. someone like say Johnny Cage.


STRYKIE

Why not? It provides an additional level of pressure. It's the same reason Kabal players factor in hitboxes to MU numbers. F41 being safe >>>> F41 being blown up by full combo. How does that not effect the match up to an extent? Smoke's whole problem is getting raped by pressure due to his lack of armor and big hitbox, this further puts the nail in the coffin. Jax already has solid pressure (If you want to call if that, its more of a continuous footsie game) and he now doesn't even have to worry about F41 whiffing. Same way Kabal players like being able to use all their tools vs. a big hitbox.

You're basically saying me being able to 70% punish his F41 on my crouch block is irrelevant. If Smoke could do that the MU would he a lot different.

 

[THTB]

Kung Lao does have to random spin its what makes him so scary every good Kung Lao random spins.

No, they don't.

 

[trustinme]

JUST RUSH SMOKE DOWN AND STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT SMOKE PLAYERS! if you spent as much time trying to LEARN the smoke MU, or putting time into a secondary character like EVERYONE ELSE THAT PLAYS THE GAME, you might have an answer for smoke.

exactly.its impossible for me to even try and fight the likes of freddy,sonya,skarlet and kabal with nw so im trying to learn raiden. fuck freddy,that character is ridiculous.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Just keeping it real for a second

For all that bitch about Kenshi and Freddy just pick up smoke, LBSH MK9 tourneys need more smoke players and its a great way to have an answer for kenshi

Kenshi/Smoke 5-5
Freddy/Smoke 7-3

He's also great for hype. So fun to watch at high level play

 

[Big Pampering]

so all this time you thought instant 3 jails into a blockstring?. No wonder you hate this match so much. After the instant 3 is blocked you are at 0. Only the late 3 jails

the late 3 doesnt jail either my friend...

 

[LaR]

No, they don't.

Watch perfectlegend play he does it all the time. A kung lao who never random spins is easy to beat.

 

[Treadmill]

Watch perfectlegend play he does it all the time. A kung lao who never random spins is easy to beat.

I agree. I don't fear spin if I don't see a nonsense one once in a while

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[LaR]

the late 3 doesnt jail either my friend...

Well thats news to me thanks for letting me no it seems kind of obvious now that i think about that it doesn't jail. I alway thought i had to take a blockstring after the late 3.