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General/Other Are Smoke players the biggest downplayers in the community?

Are Smoke players the biggest downplayers in the community?


  • Total voters
    81

HD Smoke

Noob
Exactly dude, I think if Smoke had to respect Kitana's wake up game more the match would be a 5-5, but this definitely makes it slight advantage for Smoke. D4 is such a good tool on knockdown and sets up the rest of his pressure. Kitana more or less controls the air as the only thing Smoke can do is read a instant air fan with an instant air teleport.
Yeah m2dave needs to stop saying smoke can only beat Freddy. If the character isn't full rushdown it's either free for smoke or even. Smoke loses hard to pure rushdown it's almost laughable to try and play against cage,kl, or kabal but his footsies, anti airs, and spacing ruin a lot of the cast. If we just had one armor move than he would be able to break even with cage, kl, and kabal. If Smokebomb did chip he would beat cage. Smoke is extremely weird in his design/playstyle! Also I think some matches against smoke he rapes them 7-3 so it makes up for how bad those 3 beat him.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
I fought Cat 's Kabal at Raleigh. We played several casual games. He is a good player, but he had no idea how to deal with Freddy's zoning game until much later in the series. That is because playing your dumbass made him believe Freddy is some type of rush down character. Even he admitted my Freddy is a lot better. LOL. You are a such a fool.
Better at zoning. But you did lack defense when up close which is something scar is good at. I've lost way worse to scar than to your Freddy but you both good in your own ways. No one said you can't use a character with different styles. For example in sf4. There's a ton of ryu players but compare laughs, daigos, Alex Valle, they all have diff style and succeed
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
My thoughts on Smoke:

• #6 in the game
• Loses to Jax, Sonya and maybe cage 4-6
• Loses to Lao and Kabal 3-7.
• He beats Freddy 7-3 or worse... he's just too easy to space out Freddy literally needs to take risky jumps and risky 22[1+2]...

I don't see in any way shape or form how Lao can go 5-5 with that kind of mobility, the jailing jabs, the divekick to punish sb on reaction, the roll to control his spacing even further, and Smoke's lack of pressure / chip on his safe blockstrings. (Ex. 21[1+2], 2121212) He makes it hard for Smoke to runaway, even at a +3 advantage from a D3 he can throw out a 2 and smck your B2 in the face because of it's superb range and speed. Honestly, you could argue it isn't a 3-7, but i personally don't feel it's a 5-5.... He builds more meter, has better pressure and gets in too easy imo.

Same goes for Jax. It's hard to keep him away when he can superman any Smokeballs on reaction and F413 jails. You need to keep running from Jax or play risks. If you run your cornering yourself and he can then reset you to hell.

Honestly Smoke's reset does help a lot in all of the MU's, before i thought it wasn't as big a deal. I mean, without he's still good, but a few MU's would become worse imo. Resets are the only thing keeping him in the Kabal MU.

Wafflez HD Smoke FrothyOmen KT Smith RiBBz22 matterovermind

any thoughts on Smoke, or disagreements? Just curious on every elses thoughts about him.
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
Oh i should add that although i feel Smoke is #6 tier-wise, i think there are better tournament choices seeing as how he loses / goes even with almost all tournament characters except for Freddy. You really have to be on point with reset to do some work like Wafflez did this weekend, i find sometimes thats either hit or miss and somewhat hard to control.
 

GGA Wafflez

the kid
cage is a disadvantage MU. imo. he can counter poke almost just as well as jax and his pressure is as good as it gets. he has a similar guessing game to smoke... which is guessing game on when to counter poke. no armor also affects this MU... man... smoke porting doesn't help so much... deep jump kick... maannn...
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
My thoughts on Smoke:

• #6 in the game
• Loses to Jax, Sonya and maybe cage 4-6
• Loses to Lao and Kabal 3-7.
• He beats Freddy 7-3 or worse... he's just too easy to space out Freddy literally needs to take risky jumps and risky 22[1+2]...

I don't see in any way shape or form how Lao can go 5-5 with that kind of mobility, the jailing jabs, the divekick to punish sb on reaction, the roll to control his spacing even further, and Smoke's lack of pressure / chip on his safe blockstrings. (Ex. 21[1+2], 2121212) He makes it hard for Smoke to runaway, even at a +3 advantage from a D3 he can throw out a 2 and smck your B2 in the face because of it's superb range and speed. Honestly, you could argue it isn't a 3-7, but i personally don't feel it's a 5-5.... He builds more meter, has better pressure and gets in too easy imo.

Same goes for Jax. It's hard to keep him away when he can superman any Smokeballs on reaction and F413 jails. You need to keep running from Jax or play risks. If you run your cornering yourself and he can then reset you to hell.

Honestly Smoke's reset does help a lot in all of the MU's, before i thought it wasn't as big a deal. I mean, without he's still good, but a few MU's would become worse imo. Resets are the only thing keeping him in the Kabal MU.

Wafflez HD Smoke FrothyOmen KT Smith RiBBz22 matterovermind

any thoughts on Smoke, or disagreements? Just curious on every elses thoughts about him.
I think we are all in agreement with these matchups with everyone besides m2dave. He thinks they are all 5-5 so obviously Smoke is the best character in the game and everyone should switch to him for their main right away. And somehow he talked to CDjr who said he goes even with Kung Lao and Jax after CDjr told me himself that Smoke sucks (obviously doesn't actually suck, but figuratively speaking against the top tier characters you will see in tournament I am sure).
 

matterovermind

mindundermatter
My thoughts on Smoke:

• #6 in the game
• Loses to Jax, Sonya and maybe cage 4-6
• Loses to Lao and Kabal 3-7.
• He beats Freddy 7-3 or worse... he's just too easy to space out Freddy literally needs to take risky jumps and risky 22[1+2]...

I don't see in any way shape or form how Lao can go 5-5 with that kind of mobility, the jailing jabs, the divekick to punish sb on reaction, the roll to control his spacing even further, and Smoke's lack of pressure / chip on his safe blockstrings. (Ex. 21[1+2], 2121212) He makes it hard for Smoke to runaway, even at a +3 advantage from a D3 he can throw out a 2 and smck your B2 in the face because of it's superb range and speed. Honestly, you could argue it isn't a 3-7, but i personally don't feel it's a 5-5.... He builds more meter, has better pressure and gets in too easy imo.

Same goes for Jax. It's hard to keep him away when he can superman any Smokeballs on reaction and F413 jails. You need to keep running from Jax or play risks. If you run your cornering yourself and he can then reset you to hell.

Honestly Smoke's reset does help a lot in all of the MU's, before i thought it wasn't as big a deal. I mean, without he's still good, but a few MU's would become worse imo. Resets are the only thing keeping him in the Kabal MU.

Wafflez HD Smoke FrothyOmen KT Smith RiBBz22 matterovermind

any thoughts on Smoke, or disagreements? Just curious on every elses thoughts about him.
Agree on the MU numbers you provided - smoke is easily and abysmally overwhelmed by Kabal and Lao, and Sonya and Cage to a lesser extent. Lao and Kabal easily shut down one of smoke's most important tools (smoke away/towards) with dive kick and nomad dash, respectively. This part of the mathcup (for me anyway) is extremely frustrating.

For the Lao and Kabal MU I agree the resets are essential; without them he wouldn't have much of a fighting chance. And on that note, most of the time when I'm in these MU's I'm saving that meter for breaker. It really is tough.

Smoke is definitely top 10, but not top 5 imo. I'd need to think about it a bit more to place him more accurately.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Why are players still trying to factor Jax's F413 string into him being a bad matchup for someone? It only whiffs on like, half a dozen characters, and when it does, it's his problem. From an outside perspective I'd agree that it's 6-4 for Jax regardless but still..

This is like me saying:
Scorp beats Sheeva because standing 2 hits her in crouch block
Scorp loses to Jade because standing 2 doesn't hit her in crouch block

Or hell:
Kung Lao loses to Sonya because instant tele3 whiffs on her
My character loses to Kung Lao because instant tele3 doesn't whiff on me.
 

LaR

Noob
Kung Lao is not that bad for smoke the fact that you can go under Kung Laos strings with d4 is really big and he also punishes spin better than anyone.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Kung Lao is not that bad for smoke the fact that you can go under Kung Laos strings with d4 is really big and he also punishes spin better than anyone.
So wait, because Smoke's d4 goes under KL's strings this is not that bad of a match? Is everyone really good against Kung Lao then? KL doesn't need to randomly throw out the spin against Smoke because all of Smoke's options are pretty much neutralized in this match and he can instead use it just to punish.
 

LaR

Noob
So wait, because Smoke's d4 goes under KL's strings this is not that bad of a match? Is everyone really good against Kung Lao then? KL doesn't need to randomly throw out the spin against Smoke because all of Smoke's options are pretty much neutralized in this match and he can instead use it just to punish.
Yes exactly d4 beats kl's 1 and 2 all day and kung lao does have to throw out random spins. I main both smoke and kl and i know for sure its not as bad as everyone says. It sounds like you just need to level up in this match up.
 
Ok, so smoke avoids a 1/2 and gets a d4 to hit. he now has a chance to unsafely 50/50 Lao due to SB being punishable. b23 -8, b23~sb -9, b23~smoke away lets him teleport in for free. d4 on hit gives 4% damage and +12 advantage into another 50/50 situation. d4 on block leaves you neutral, meaning that since you are fighting lao you MUST BLOCK because his normals are faster than yours... you could try to neutral duck but that can get blown up by spin or just downpokes that give hella advantage on crouch hit... I see what you're saying and how it could work but I just see too many places for smoke to get blown up.

But, anything is better than just stiting there and blocking and getting raped, so at least if you make good reads on when to d3/d4 I suppose Lao is less scary in that regard

No matter how much I play this character, I cannot stop getting raped by him. I've gotten really good at dashing and ducking around all his teleport shenanigans, but it's tough when he's constantly in the air and has options within his options to beat your AA attempts...