What's new

Question Arcade Stick Users In NRS Games - The Lack Thereof

iamShorteh

"Vengeance will be mine!"
The reason being that for MK style games either a Pad or a full button hitbox are advantageous over an arcade stick.
Stick is the better pick for games where you frequently need to do half-circles.

Personally I have been using a Hori Fight Commander 4 since the second month of MKX.
I have a fresh Hori FC4 pad ready to go when MK11 drops, and am always looking at new input options.
The reason I haven't bought a hitbox to try it out is the price ($200,-) plus the fact that for MK we have that dedicated block button.
For button block I just don't know where I'd bind it at comfortably, while having it on R2 works fine for me.


 
Luffy winning Evo 2014 with a ps1 pad was such an outlier that everybody was talking about it. Outlier does not equal norm. I was there at that tournament. No, pad players didn't win Capcom cup a majority of the years. Feel free to go back every year for SF since the beginning of cacpcom cup and check.
Uh pads are becoming more popular nowadays for SF which is why like I said for sfv pad players won 2/3 capcom cups. There’s pad players in every top 8. You can absolutely compete at the highest level in sf with a pad and win, and people do exactly that. Even among the Japanese/Korean players you’re seeing more pads since arcades are getting less popular and people are playing from home.
 

AbeW

Noob
The reason being that for MK style games either a Pad or a full button hitbox are advantageous over an arcade stick.
Stick is the better pick for games where you frequently need to do half-circles.

Personally I have been using a Hori Fight Commander 4 since the second month of MKX.
I have a fresh Hori FC4 pad ready to go when MK11 drops, and am always looking at new input options.
The reason I haven't bought a hitbox to try it out is the price ($200,-) plus the fact that for MK we have that dedicated block button.
For button block I just don't know where I'd bind it at comfortably, while having it on R2 works fine for me.



As another user pointed out on the thread earlier....the following would be ideal for a 24mm hitbox or stick with 30mm NOIR layout
Top row: 1 2 3 4
Bottom row: BLK, THROW, INT, StanceChange
Right thumb by default rests on block and index/middle/ring/pinky for 1 through 4.

Seems pretty intuitive as a position for the blk button and what i've been using. Easiest way to meterburn 1 through 4 as well (1+blk, 2+blk, 3+blk, 4+blk, 1+3+blk, etc).
For a vewlix layout, there's no easy solution if you have small hands. Vewlix layouts are vastly unpopular anyways and not ideal for small or mid sized hands.
 
Last edited:

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I prefer the standard Hitbox layout:
1 2 R1 L1
3 4 R2 L2

Index finger is for 1 and 3, middle for 2 and 4 and so on.

Typically your ring finger hovers at the block button and it's very very easy to press any button 1 - 4 in combination with R2 for EX moves.

Again though, experiment with what is the best setup for yourself is.
 

portent

Noob
Are we SERIOUSLY having this argument again? Really? It's personal preference! In today's day, there are enough options to satisfy everyone, and people are STILL trying to say pad players are somehow not equal to supposedly superior stick players? Maybe it has something to do with what each person grew up using and is most comfortable with?

Sonic Fox has dominated in multiple games as a pad only player, and yet this stupid argument still continues. Get on his level with a stick and then we can talk.

Sincerely,
A stick player
 

AbeW

Noob
Are we SERIOUSLY having this argument again? Really? It's personal preference! In today's day, there are enough options to satisfy everyone, and people are STILL trying to say pad players are somehow not equal to supposedly superior stick players? Maybe it has something to do with what each person grew up using and is most comfortable with?

Sonic Fox has dominated in multiple games as a pad only player, and yet this stupid argument still continues. Get on his level with a stick and then we can talk.

Sincerely,
A stick player
SonicFox, Lil Majin, Punk, etc are top-tier pad players. Tokido, Daigo, Qudans, JDCR, etc are top tier stick players. This thread appears to be discussing the reason for a lesser number of stick users in NRS games. Nowhere does any comment state that pad players are inferior. So quit imagining things and frothing at the mouth. Your imagination might have landed you on the wrong thread.
 

portent

Noob
SonicFox, Lil Majin, Punk, etc are top-tier pad players. Tokido, Daigo, Qudans, JDCR, etc are top tier stick players. This thread appears to be discussing the reason for a lesser number of stick users in NRS games. Nowhere does any comment state that pad players are inferior. So quit imagining things and frothing at the mouth. Your imagination might have landed you on the wrong thread.
My response is simply because I've seen this before, and no matter how many ways you choose to phrase the question, it will always devolve into a pad vs. stick debate. You haven't been around long enough to remember the beginnings of these arguments, and no, I'm not going to tell you how long I've been around. I've been around, I've lived this. Take these two responses, they're further proof of what this will devolve into unless both of them just give up posting in this thread.

BTW, neither of them got attacked the same by you for virtually the same thing. What makes me so special in your eyes?

arcade stick > pad
its not even close.
ofc its a matter of preference.
u can play on an pc keyboard if you like.
the truth is most most players never learned to master an arcadestick.
thats because they r pussys - as soon as they lose some matches they continue to play on pad again, lul.
it takes some time to play on arcade stick.
or, they are playing a trash game game with an trash input engine, like most nrs games.

here 1 example what a trash input engine is:
in street fighter when u press down+hk with ruy then you will get nothing but an sweep, no matter how fast you pressed it.
in an nrs game you could get an special attack for it.
somehow this happen less on pad.
Uh pads are becoming more popular nowadays for SF which is why like I said for sfv pad players won 2/3 capcom cups. There’s pad players in every top 8. You can absolutely compete at the highest level in sf with a pad and win, and people do exactly that. Even among the Japanese/Korean players you’re seeing more pads since arcades are getting less popular and people are playing from home.


That all said, IMO the biggest reason why there are fewer stick players in NRS games has to do with history, not only with games, timing, arcade decline, but also stick layout availability.

See, the last real arcades began to close up around 2005, and one of the sole remaining "true" arcades, chinatown fair, closed in 2011, the year MK9 was released.

By the time Mortal Kombat began releasing on home consoles, not only were pads less expensive because they were included with the consoles, but, unlike Street Fighter, there was no readily available equivalent to a Mortal Kombat layout made for home consoles like SNES and Genesis. Street Fighter players had various choices that catered to their layouts with the Capcom Power sticks made for SNES and Genesis to the custom ones like MAS which used american parts but again, only offered in Street Fighter layouts.

Snes pads had the perfect MK layout, but with block and run assigned to the shoulder buttons, so pad play it was.

The next generations of systems, PS2 and Xbox in particular, enjoyed a large release of 3D Mortal Kombat games, however, by this time, the players were so used to using pad to play, and nearly all of the home console 3D games were being played on readily available pads (even when custom sticks, including MK layout were now available).

MKDC had an interesting mechanic where you could hold a button to move in 3D, or you could simply use the analog stick to do so, a mechanic clearly geared for pad play, as (if you know your MKDC history) the 3D button had input delay so 3D movement via the button wasn't as fast as using the analog stick.

It wasn't until MK9 in 2011 that we saw an MK and NRS games being played more consistently on a stick, even though pad play clearly outnumbered stick players at tournaments for this game. We also saw the introduction of alternate controls into the scheme to attempt to make it easier for SF players to transition from SF to MK by making circular motions necessary, unlike standard NRS inputs which rarely require the use of a diagonal.

So, you see, a lot goes into why we don't see as many sticks, and the last reason is that, in today's tournaments, the readily available, and less financial burden of sticks, is an optimal way for a new player to get into a fighting game, and by the time they're hooked, they're used to how they learned the game.
 

AbeW

Noob
My response is simply because I've seen this before, and no matter how many ways you choose to phrase the question, it will always devolve into a pad vs. stick debate. You haven't been around long enough to remember the beginnings of these arguments, and no, I'm not going to tell you how long I've been around. I've been around, I've lived this. Take these two responses, they're further proof of what this will devolve into unless both of them just give up posting in this thread.

BTW, neither of them got attacked the same by you for virtually the same thing. What makes me so special in your eyes?







That all said, IMO the biggest reason why there are fewer stick players in NRS games has to do with history, not only with games, timing, arcade decline, but also stick layout availability.

See, the last real arcades began to close up around 2005, and one of the sole remaining "true" arcades, chinatown fair, closed in 2011, the year MK9 was released.

By the time Mortal Kombat began releasing on home consoles, not only were pads less expensive because they were included with the consoles, but, unlike Street Fighter, there was no readily available equivalent to a Mortal Kombat layout made for home consoles like SNES and Genesis. Street Fighter players had various choices that catered to their layouts with the Capcom Power sticks made for SNES and Genesis to the custom ones like MAS which used american parts but again, only offered in Street Fighter layouts.

Snes pads had the perfect MK layout, but with block and run assigned to the shoulder buttons, so pad play it was.

The next generations of systems, PS2 and Xbox in particular, enjoyed a large release of 3D Mortal Kombat games, however, by this time, the players were so used to using pad to play, and nearly all of the home console 3D games were being played on readily available pads (even when custom sticks, including MK layout were now available).

MKDC had an interesting mechanic where you could hold a button to move in 3D, or you could simply use the analog stick to do so, a mechanic clearly geared for pad play, as (if you know your MKDC history) the 3D button had input delay so 3D movement via the button wasn't as fast as using the analog stick.

It wasn't until MK9 in 2011 that we saw an MK and NRS games being played more consistently on a stick, even though pad play clearly outnumbered stick players at tournaments for this game. We also saw the introduction of alternate controls into the scheme to attempt to make it easier for SF players to transition from SF to MK by making circular motions necessary, unlike standard NRS inputs which rarely require the use of a diagonal.

So, you see, a lot goes into why we don't see as many sticks, and the last reason is that, in today's tournaments, the readily available, and less financial burden of sticks, is an optimal way for a new player to get into a fighting game, and by the time they're hooked, they're used to how they learned the game.
Look, i have no control over what everyone says on a thread and try to look at the general consensus. But, I am convinced and feel that that top tier pad players have execution that's a notch above their top tier stick user counterparts to compensate for their gameplay because sticks and all-button/stickless sticks (hitboxes) have higher precision and offer a freebie to the user in that regard. In fact, i pointed out earlier myself that i'm not the greatest with execution and sticks tend to cut me slack. For MKX, Lil Majin, Goonie, Ninjakilla etc, I can only imagine the amount of work or natural born execution skills that goes into some of the stuff they do consistently on a pad. Again, this refers to users with the highest level of gameplay and execution.

Thanks for the historical information you provided. I came from the Tekken/SF world and MKX was my first serious NRS game. I dabbled a bit with MK9 as well after MKX. I was not aware of the info you provided and this was probably the best response to my original question.

I understand that finances are a big factor and the upfront cost for a good stick can be prohibitive to many users. But, here's my take on it. I built out a custom all-button stick for right around 200 bucks. It has a 90 dollar Brook Universal board, sanwas and a case i picked up on sale from AFS. It supports 7 platforms, namely the PS3, PS4, Xbox1, 360, PC, WiiU and Nintendo Switch. That is 7 platforms for 200 bucks (at about 30 bucks for one). I own a PC and many of these consoles, so it made sense for me. Besides, you get to throw your custom artwork on it and make it your signature stick. I have had sticks last me a decade before and i expect this one to easily last me that long as well. If a button fails, it is a easy 2 dollar replacement. Also, sticks tend to have good resale value and i've sold them cutting even before. Pads tend to be uni-platform and when they fail, which could be more often, it can call for a full replacement each time. FGs probably cause the most rough use and failure on input devices unlike other genres. If you look at longer time spans for usage of these input devices, the prices even out.
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
Stick player here.
Holy crap! It's been a while since I've seen a post from you, sir! We used to play MK: Deception online way back in the day.

That being said, I'm also a stick player and I've never had issues playing NRS games on sticks. I've played every MK game on a stick, even back when the 3D MK games came out on console. It's what I'm used to using. I would occasionally try pad when I went to a friend's house to play but my skills took a hit due to lack of pad experience with the game.
 
Last edited:

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Holy crap! It's been a while since I've seen a post from you, sir! We used to play MK: Deception online way back in the day.

Thai being said, I'm also a stick player and I've never had issues playing NRS games on sticks. I've played every MK game on a stick, even back when the 3D MK games came out on console. It's what I'm used to using. I would occasionally try pad when I went to a friend's house to play but my skills took a hit due to lack of pad experience with the game.
Ironically, I used pad for the 3D games lol
 

jmt

Noob
I've been playing SF on stick for 25 years now and I also play all NRS games but I prefer to play those on pad even though I can and have played all of them on stick without problem.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
My response is simply because I've seen this before, and no matter how many ways you choose to phrase the question, it will always devolve into a pad vs. stick debate. You haven't been around long enough to remember the beginnings of these arguments, and no, I'm not going to tell you how long I've been around. I've been around, I've lived this. Take these two responses, they're further proof of what this will devolve into unless both of them just give up posting in this thread.

BTW, neither of them got attacked the same by you for virtually the same thing. What makes me so special in your eyes?







That all said, IMO the biggest reason why there are fewer stick players in NRS games has to do with history, not only with games, timing, arcade decline, but also stick layout availability.

See, the last real arcades began to close up around 2005, and one of the sole remaining "true" arcades, chinatown fair, closed in 2011, the year MK9 was released.

By the time Mortal Kombat began releasing on home consoles, not only were pads less expensive because they were included with the consoles, but, unlike Street Fighter, there was no readily available equivalent to a Mortal Kombat layout made for home consoles like SNES and Genesis. Street Fighter players had various choices that catered to their layouts with the Capcom Power sticks made for SNES and Genesis to the custom ones like MAS which used american parts but again, only offered in Street Fighter layouts.

Snes pads had the perfect MK layout, but with block and run assigned to the shoulder buttons, so pad play it was.

The next generations of systems, PS2 and Xbox in particular, enjoyed a large release of 3D Mortal Kombat games, however, by this time, the players were so used to using pad to play, and nearly all of the home console 3D games were being played on readily available pads (even when custom sticks, including MK layout were now available).

MKDC had an interesting mechanic where you could hold a button to move in 3D, or you could simply use the analog stick to do so, a mechanic clearly geared for pad play, as (if you know your MKDC history) the 3D button had input delay so 3D movement via the button wasn't as fast as using the analog stick.

It wasn't until MK9 in 2011 that we saw an MK and NRS games being played more consistently on a stick, even though pad play clearly outnumbered stick players at tournaments for this game. We also saw the introduction of alternate controls into the scheme to attempt to make it easier for SF players to transition from SF to MK by making circular motions necessary, unlike standard NRS inputs which rarely require the use of a diagonal.

So, you see, a lot goes into why we don't see as many sticks, and the last reason is that, in today's tournaments, the readily available, and less financial burden of sticks, is an optimal way for a new player to get into a fighting game, and by the time they're hooked, they're used to how they learned the game.
^This X 100! . You sir saved me writing a long post. I agree with this 100%!

I'm also a hitbox player. I was raised in the arcades, so sticks are my home. Pads are wonderful however you use them but keyboards and hitboxes are my go to has I've been using hitboxes for years.

It all preference really and I hear the commentary on tournaments when they say such and such is a pad or stick players like it sticks out for their respective community. Which is good btw because it produces talks like this but I also tend to think it matters also for the games that are made today.

Spot on comment @portent.
 
My response is simply because I've seen this before, and no matter how many ways you choose to phrase the question, it will always devolve into a pad vs. stick debate. You haven't been around long enough to remember the beginnings of these arguments, and no, I'm not going to tell you how long I've been around. I've been around, I've lived this. Take these two responses, they're further proof of what this will devolve into unless both of them just give up posting in this thread.

BTW, neither of them got attacked the same by you for virtually the same thing. What makes me so special in your eyes?







That all said, IMO the biggest reason why there are fewer stick players in NRS games has to do with history, not only with games, timing, arcade decline, but also stick layout availability.

See, the last real arcades began to close up around 2005, and one of the sole remaining "true" arcades, chinatown fair, closed in 2011, the year MK9 was released.

By the time Mortal Kombat began releasing on home consoles, not only were pads less expensive because they were included with the consoles, but, unlike Street Fighter, there was no readily available equivalent to a Mortal Kombat layout made for home consoles like SNES and Genesis. Street Fighter players had various choices that catered to their layouts with the Capcom Power sticks made for SNES and Genesis to the custom ones like MAS which used american parts but again, only offered in Street Fighter layouts.

Snes pads had the perfect MK layout, but with block and run assigned to the shoulder buttons, so pad play it was.

The next generations of systems, PS2 and Xbox in particular, enjoyed a large release of 3D Mortal Kombat games, however, by this time, the players were so used to using pad to play, and nearly all of the home console 3D games were being played on readily available pads (even when custom sticks, including MK layout were now available).

MKDC had an interesting mechanic where you could hold a button to move in 3D, or you could simply use the analog stick to do so, a mechanic clearly geared for pad play, as (if you know your MKDC history) the 3D button had input delay so 3D movement via the button wasn't as fast as using the analog stick.

It wasn't until MK9 in 2011 that we saw an MK and NRS games being played more consistently on a stick, even though pad play clearly outnumbered stick players at tournaments for this game. We also saw the introduction of alternate controls into the scheme to attempt to make it easier for SF players to transition from SF to MK by making circular motions necessary, unlike standard NRS inputs which rarely require the use of a diagonal.

So, you see, a lot goes into why we don't see as many sticks, and the last reason is that, in today's tournaments, the readily available, and less financial burden of sticks, is an optimal way for a new player to get into a fighting game, and by the time they're hooked, they're used to how they learned the game.
i will say this: if mk games were always fgc like street fighter aka tournament games, then today the nrs scene would play on dedicated (mk panel layout) arcade sticks, like traditional (for the most part)
pad players in the sf scene are like exception.
mk became fgc with mk9 and most of the top nrs players never played an fighing game before (competitive)
or they played mk only, some older guys. but not fgc, thats the point.
because this arcade stick culture only existed within the fgc. to buy an arcade stick, to build your own stick, to buy parts and so on. most people outside the fgc didnt even know all of this.

exception were some og,s who really played mk in the arcades, some of them keep playing games like mk2 or umk3 with custom-build arcade sticks.

also, i am sure if madcatz, quanba or such company would sell mk-sticks (with umk3 panel) more nrs player would play on sticks.
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
i will say this: if mk games were always fgc like street fighter aka tournament games, then today the nrs scene would play on dedicated (mk panel layout) arcade sticks, like traditional (for the most part)
pad players in the sf scene are like exception.
mk became fgc with mk9 and most of the top nrs players never played an fighing game before (competitive)
or they played mk only, some older guys. but not fgc, thats the point.
because this arcade stick culture only existed within the fgc. to buy an arcade stick, to build your own stick, to buy parts and so on. most people outside the fgc didnt even know all of this.

exception were some og,s who really played mk in the arcades, some of them keep playing games like mk2 or umk3 with custom-build arcade sticks.

also, i am sure if madcatz, quanba or such company would sell mk-sticks (with umk3 panel) more nrs player would play on sticks.
This is very true. If they do make an MK themed stick, they need to steer clear of making a specialized button layout just for the block button placement. Just make a stick that can be used for any fighting game, not just MK and it will be fine. Perhaps more NRS players will get into using sticks if we get some bad-ass MK themed art for the panel.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
i will say this: if mk games were always fgc like street fighter aka tournament games, then today the nrs scene would play on dedicated (mk panel layout) arcade sticks, like traditional (for the most part)
pad players in the sf scene are like exception.
mk became fgc with mk9 and most of the top nrs players never played an fighing game before (competitive)
or they played mk only, some older guys. but not fgc, thats the point.
because this arcade stick culture only existed within the fgc. to buy an arcade stick, to build your own stick, to buy parts and so on. most people outside the fgc didnt even know all of this.

exception were some og,s who really played mk in the arcades, some of them keep playing games like mk2 or umk3 with custom-build arcade sticks.

also, i am sure if madcatz, quanba or such company would sell mk-sticks (with umk3 panel) more nrs player would play on sticks.


I don't know. I do remember sticks being widly sought after as the premier way to play but just very expensive and down right hard to get. Only in magazines like GamerPro, Electronic Gaming Monthly, Nintendo, I think Sony and Microsoft had one for consoles and PC's too. That's were you could order a stick or find out a latest one if that. Yes before the internet.

Either way your right there wasn't a huge competitive community back then except for Capcom games which was widly popular over seas and just started to grow here in NA and SA.

The stick culture has always been there but during that time home consoles were really taking off where has Atri, Neo and a few others were dying off. Even Nintendo companies we're struggling with sales for their kinds of sticks which weren't really bad now in today's hindsight. Speaking from experience.

Today it's different. With so much more selections. Different and far more companies. Far more easier access to buy, customize and modd. I really don't see why difference in pros not choosing to use a stick v pad.

To me as I speak has an old time arcade hound. If the game feels like it needs a stick due to everything from the engine and game mechanics to easier exicution and less travel time on inputs with out the use of custom mapping then I say play on with whatever you decide.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
This is very true. If they do make an MK themed stick, they need to steer clear of making a specialized button layout just for the block button placement. Just make a stick that can be used for any fighting game, not just MK and it will be fine. Perhaps more NRS players will get into using sticks if we get some bad-ass MK themed art for the panel.
Honestly the worse layout I've ever played on but I do see why they did it.
 

portent

Noob
i will say this: if mk games were always fgc like street fighter aka tournament games, then today the nrs scene would play on dedicated (mk panel layout) arcade sticks, like traditional (for the most part)
pad players in the sf scene are like exception.
mk became fgc with mk9 and most of the top nrs players never played an fighing game before (competitive)
or they played mk only, some older guys. but not fgc, thats the point.
because this arcade stick culture only existed within the fgc. to buy an arcade stick, to build your own stick, to buy parts and so on. most people outside the fgc didnt even know all of this.

exception were some og,s who really played mk in the arcades, some of them keep playing games like mk2 or umk3 with custom-build arcade sticks.

also, i am sure if madcatz, quanba or such company would sell mk-sticks (with umk3 panel) more nrs player would play on sticks.
Let me also say that I wasn't, in fact, getting on you for your part in the argument, instead I was simply using it as an example to show that it was where the argument might be going. I hope you know that, and that there was no ill-will intended.
 

King Cash

Next Level
I’ve used the MK stick button layout, regular, pad, fightpad, and hitbox. I have a hitbox, qanba Dragon, TE2, Razor Atrox & Fight commander 4( also regular ps, X1 pads)

I don’t think there is a “best” they all have there qualities. Biggest thing for me as a tournament player is ease of portability. I took last year off. Plan on competing again this year and I’m really stuck on what I want to use. Especially since I play multiple games.

If you’re thinking about stick and want to travel to compete, sticks are kind of a hassle to lug around for 2-3 days.

Imagine playing casuals, or playing tourney set, then wanting to just walk around, go eat, bs with friends and you’re lugging around this big ass stick(ha), even with my “stick bags” or a backpack it gets heavy and annoying. Many times I’ve had to walk back to my room to either drop the thing off, or retrieve it to go play. Just a lil food for thought.
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
If you’re thinking about stick and want to travel to compete, sticks are kind of a hassle to lug around for 2-3 days.

Imagine playing casuals, or playing tourney set, then wanting to just walk around, go eat, bs with friends and you’re lugging around this big ass stick(ha), even with my “stick bags” or a backpack it gets heavy and annoying. Many times I’ve had to walk back to my room to either drop the thing off, or retrieve it to go play. Just a lil food for thought.
This man speaks the truth! I've had to do exactly what you described every year that attend EVO. That's one negative of using sticks.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Try lugging around an Arcade In A Box stick around EVO... I did this back in 2009 for SF4 and that thing is heavy. This is when there were 1000+ entrants and there was one HUGE pool, not the small ones we see now. I had to carry that thing for 14 HOURS! Would have loved to be a pad player then lol
 
on mayor events i almost never had my own stick all the time with me, only for tournament games.
for casuals I always lend myself sticks lying around. it was never a problem since almost everyone use sanwa stick and buttons.

however, hanging with my arcade stick around at the event all day was never a problem too since i am a real man.
;D
 

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
Try lugging around an Arcade In A Box stick around EVO... I did this back in 2009 for SF4 and that thing is heavy. This is when there were 1000+ entrants and there was one HUGE pool, not the small ones we see now. I had to carry that thing for 14 HOURS! Would have loved to be a pad player then lol
Damn, that's rough! I don't know if I could have gone through with it.