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Question - Balanced Any point to keep playing

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Hmmm that's interesting, I usually use push to end a block string. I'll keep that in mind
Since Balanced has no mixups, you have to create your own ones. This involves ending strings in specials or not, canceling pokes into specials or not, staggers into throw or staggers into launcher... we have to work with this shit.

As push has become -10, in terms of frames it doesn't matter if you end strings in push or overhead slash. But overhead slash leaves a gap after most strings, whereas push does not.

Trying not to be predictable is key because with this variation 1 mistake can mean death, you can't allow your opponent to find out any patterns in you, this applies to both fullscreen game and closeup game.

Anyway, no matter how much you lab, how many new gimmicks you try to develop, how much time you dedicate...there are MANY matchups that are simply shit to play with Balanced in current state, the disadvantage his huge.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
As someone who tried to make Kenshi work for a long time and just ended up dropping him and now with the new patch picked him back up, I'm pretty sure I can tell you what's wrong with Balanced, and Kenjutsu.

Balanced: He's still bad-okay. Zoning got better but let me tell you that the changes to DB4 and BF3 made hardly any difference. He's a zoning designed character but a lot of the cast can still get around zoning pretty decently. So while he's hitting you for 9 or 7% all game eventually you'll get in and do 1 combo and catch back up. At least before it was like "oh shit I'm close watch out for RK (27% combo that sends you full screen as the follow up). I have suggested fair and honest changes to make him better but I honestly don't care lol. Cuz tbh i don't think he'll ever be good.

Kenjutsu: Is meant for offense but he has no good offensive strings at all. I think that's his only real problem. Give him better frames for more viable staggers. That and no real real way to play safe without spending a bar
 

Tweedy

Noob
The mix up should never be stagger and throw or finishing the string. It should always be, the string, or just throw.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I dunno, i think you're still not allowed to say "I won a match with Balanced" around here without Ismael and Immortal coming down from the mountain to remind you your opponent didn't play the match right and a real player would never let you get away with that.
because immortal and ismael are cancer incarnate
 

InFlames

dead
Kenjutsu is just not as good as other 50/50 characters that can make themselves safe with a bar, or don't need bar. He's a rushdown character, yet outside of ending combos with push in the corner, he gets some of the worst hit advantage in the game. His BF3 is even worse than Balanced's, his push is without question the worst across all 3 variations.
Db4? Df1?
 

Lokheit

Noob
Thanks @Tweedy for the "Kenjutsu is bad" defense, I've been of the opinion too that Kenjutsu, while not being talked about as much, is now Kenshi's worst variation.

His main combo enders are the pure definition of anti-synergy, you have to sacrifice damage and go for DF1 as a combo ender if you want to get momentum after a combo, there is no point on ending combos in BF3 or DB4 even if they do more damage (not only the damage from the moves, you need to change the ending strings if you want DF1 to connect on certain combos).

His BF3 also has to be the only zoning tool that works against itself: It leaves the opponent at a distance far enough that your push won't reach him and close enough that if they duck a follow up BF3 everyone can run and full combo punish you for it (some don't even have to run). The hit advantage should increase by A LOT to allow you to get in and pressure that wake up properly or even guarantee a jump in (at least against non armor wakeups like DF1 does).

There is no reason to even try using the move as a zoning tool or as combo ender, yeah it's 13 damage, well, whatever, you're putting the opponent in a great position with it and that's more important in this game than pure damage.

His push is -13 on block and the EX version isn't safe either.

His meterless DB4 leads to nothing and is -1281273120003823217127238939992303 on block for some weird reason... it would be bad even if you could meterburn it after hitting for the combo extender (I've proposed before to just merge his push and his EX DB4 so you can meterburn push into tele-hold on hit and remove the useless meterless DB4, but that's another story).

And even if this is just a "quality of life" thing, his rising sword is unnecesarily tight to connect, I mean, you can connect the D1 --> B1 with practice but no need for it to be so tight being his only meterless combo starter special, most characters have meterless starters key to their BnBs that are easy to follow up. It would be great if it was like his 2112+4 string where you need stamina to follow up but at least the advantage is huge. On top of that the EX version is also more negative than Balanced version while having atricious damage scaling.

PS: Congrats on reaching those Grand Finals!
 

Fellow_Swordsman

"One mind, one blade."
Eh, I get that Kenjutsu simply isn't as good as it was pre-patch, but I still can't call the variation utter garbage. And I'm probably in the minority when I say I still think it's slightly better than Balanced. His push being at -13 seems bad, but it has really heavy blockstun. In fact, I think Mileena's ball roll doesn't punish it even if you do it in her face. His safe low leads to 40% midscreen and up to 43% in the corner for a bar, and of course, can be hit-confirmed. His overhead is also safe for a bar, or if you opt for a meterless overhead combo, you can spend the bar on EX DB4, reset with D1 or B1, and get pretty good damage with a simple throw or B3/F2 mix up. There's almost no use for EX DF1, but I occasionally use it for gimmicks like D1 into EX DF1 to catch them off guard and get some meaty damage from it. And I honestly don't mind the DB4 ender. It could use more hit advantage, but I can work with it in it's current state. Things I can agree that really suck about Kenjutsu is the hit advantage on BF3 and his EX push still being -13 and only doing 10%. Oh, and quick shout out to Tweedy for putting Kenshi in the spotlight week in and week out at Kombat Cup. Keep working, man.
 
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I play all three variations of Kenshi and i gotta say Balanced still needs help imo. His offense is still very weak and very exploitable and his defense has been weakened with the removal of armoured launchers. His zoning is also very exploitable. I see no reason why u will pick Balanced over Possessed.
 
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Juanchaaa

Skarlet Tech Junkie
Since Balanced has no mixups, you have to create your own ones. This involves ending strings in specials or not, canceling pokes into specials or not, staggers into throw or staggers into launcher... we have to work with this shit.

As push has become -10, in terms of frames it doesn't matter if you end strings in push or overhead slash. But overhead slash leaves a gap after most strings, whereas push does not.

Trying not to be predictable is key because with this variation 1 mistake can mean death, you can't allow your opponent to find out any patterns in you, this applies to both fullscreen game and closeup game.

Anyway, no matter how much you lab, how many new gimmicks you try to develop, how much time you dedicate...there are MANY matchups that are simply shit to play with Balanced in current state, the disadvantage his huge.
Balanced Kenshi is way to predictable, I believe that he will net you a very strong neutral game & a basic understanding of how the game works in that regards. However, on wake up and cross-up he can't do much except standing 1 or d1 and even that option is a risk in its self. Have not used Balanced Post-Patch, been going all out with the variation I did not wanted to use; but it's still the best one (Possessed) at-least with that Var. I can use EXdf4 to "punish" cross-ups. Glad the same people are still using Ken; hope nobody gets discouraged.
 

Juanchaaa

Skarlet Tech Junkie
The way I "Fixed" my balanced addiction problem was by using Possessed. Do I still want balanced to be better? Yes, but let's face the facts.

  1. Balanced still looses to any other character in terms of zoning.
  2. If he gets cornered, he has no real safe options unless the opponent messes up & doesn't do a cross-up.
  3. His specials on wiff are rip.
  4. Most of the time he shines when the opponent doesn't know the match up (But I guess this can be true to any MU)
  5. In regards to MU and how well he fairs in tournament, it really doesn't matter if random joe beats hidden select joe in an online match. Unless that random joe is going up against high level or top players. When it comes to making things work on a tournament scenario all of his tools are one directional and easy to avoid.
  6. It almost seems like he's not only blind, but also armless when it comes to offense; since most of his hits comes from either gimmicks or b3, every other scenario is mainly a wiff punish with b1 or a legit punish with any other string.
At least with "Possessed" you somewhat resolve most of his problems and at this point I'm more than certain that everyone knows Kenshi's problems as a character. It's been a year and 7 months since the game was released and he still has the same problems. My recommendation is to use more than one character to counter his bad match ups and/or holes in his game plan or even go a step further and use a character that is the opposite of a zoning character. My example of using an opposite character was picking up Jax and know I have a somewhat decent zoning char and a heavily rush-down character.

To my knowledge the only legit Kenshi mains who play in tournaments are Pig, Kamasi and now Tweedy (Still don't know if he used Kenshi at launch tho) I play Kenshi in tournament myself here in Puerto Rico, hope to travel soon to some USA tournaments.

Until then just enjoy the game and if your not having fun take a break and come back to it another time.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Just get like 92gb of porno's downloading on your wifi, then go online. If you're connects bad enough balanced 10-0's the cast


:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE
 
The way I "Fixed" my balanced addiction problem was by using Possessed. Do I still want balanced to be better? Yes, but let's face the facts.

  1. Balanced still looses to any other character in terms of zoning.
  2. If he gets cornered, he has no real safe options unless the opponent messes up & doesn't do a cross-up.
  3. His specials on wiff are rip.
  4. Most of the time he shines when the opponent doesn't know the match up (But I guess this can be true to any MU)
  5. In regards to MU and how well he fairs in tournament, it really doesn't matter if random joe beats hidden select joe in an online match. Unless that random joe is going up against high level or top players. When it comes to making things work on a tournament scenario all of his tools are one directional and easy to avoid.
  6. It almost seems like he's not only blind, but also armless when it comes to offense; since most of his hits comes from either gimmicks or b3, every other scenario is mainly a wiff punish with b1 or a legit punish with any other string.
At least with "Possessed" you somewhat resolve most of his problems and at this point I'm more than certain that everyone knows Kenshi's problems as a character. It's been a year and 7 months since the game was released and he still has the same problems. My recommendation is to use more than one character to counter his bad match ups and/or holes in his game plan or even go a step further and use a character that is the opposite of a zoning character. My example of using an opposite character was picking up Jax and know I have a somewhat decent zoning char and a heavily rush-down character.

To my knowledge the only legit Kenshi mains who play in tournaments are Pig, Kamasi and now Tweedy (Still don't know if he used Kenshi at launch tho) I play Kenshi in tournament myself here in Puerto Rico, hope to travel soon to some USA tournaments.

Until then just enjoy the game and if your not having fun take a break and come back to it another time.
Yeah I also use hellfire and Shinnok to counter some of Kenshi's bad match ups but honestly I may just make the full switch to possesed because of how much better that variation seems.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
@Xxphatyzxx @ismael4790 how is balanced's armor terrible?
Balanced expush is ok. It became +3 on block (it was -1) but with increased pushback so the frame change is not as relevant. However the space it gives now is valuable.

Problem is that Balanced main tool to threat was armored exrisingkarma. Was very good to antiair and specially to anticrossup, arguably was his best tool. They just removed this armor, didnt even consider the option of making it a two bar launcher like kitana, goro, mileena...
A character with this design needs a better defensive tool as this move was, at least with two bars.

Exrisingkarma now its safe, -2, but its uses are very, very reduced. Balanced should rarely spend a bar in this move.