Match-up Discussion An argument: Cyrax advantage vs Kenshi

[GGA Jeremiah]

I believe that Cyrax has the advantage in the Kenshi matchup. Like always, I am talking highest possible level matchups. Here are my points.

1) Cyrax punishes blocked Rising Karma for 80-100% health.

2) Almost all trades with net can lead to eating 80-100% health.

3) Even a trade with spirit charge and net will lead to 80-100% punish because Cyrax can teleport back in and get full combo.

4) After a spirit charge connects and sends Cyrax full screen, the Kenshi has to respect the teleport wakeup option, so Kenshi can't just blindly spam his projectiles.

5) Crossover games with Cyrax are out due to his after 5 frames invincible anti air hop.

6) Using 1 bar of meter for 12% damage is not wise use of meter for Kenshi, since he will need to use it to break.

7) Most of the time with the unbreakable resets that Cyrax uses, you can't use breaker until you have taken at least 40% life.

8) Cyrax rarely needs to use breaker in this MU because 26-35% damage is not really that scary to Cyrax as long as he can touch you once.

9) IF CYRAX USES ANTI-AIR HOP TO GET IN AND KENSHI IS A LITTLE LATE ON HIS SPIRIT CHARGE, CYRAX CAN BLOCK IT AND THE SPIRIT CHARGE WILL SUCK CYRAX CLOSER TO KENSHI INSTEAD OF BEING PUSHED BACK. THIS RESULTS IN A 100% LIFE LOSS PUNISH WITH CYRAX STANDING 1 COMBO.

10) If Cyrax reads spirit charge and jumps at the right time Kenshi loses 80-100% life.

11) On certain parts of the Cyrax net animation, Cyrax leans back, this causes teleflurry to whiff and the net will hit, leading to 80-100% life lost.

Kenshi's Spirit charge does help in this matchup. Just don't trade with nets with it, and don't let Cyrax jump over them. But the sheer amount of times that Kenshi has to be correct with spirit charge, and the small number of times that Cyrax has to be correct with either, a net trade, a jump in, a teleport in, a bomb landing, or just the Cyrax punishing Kenshi's mistakes extremely hard, I think that this match is in Cyrax favor.

 

[GuamoKun]

I'm personally not sure, but it does seem to be this way. I don't pick either character much but Cyrax kinda forces Kenshi to be airborne a lot, taking away his strong ground game in many different ways and will always win every trade.

Meter building is no problem for Cyrax since nets can't be reflected and Cyrax will be shooting out 9001 projectiles to force a reaction from Kenshi

It's like...this MU is one that Kenshi knows what its like to be bullied and stuff.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I havent thought about it as much as jeremiah, but on a very very simple level....
Kenshis armor is more null in this fight because he has to be ready to break. Definately something to think about.

Nice points jeremiah. Ill ponder.

 

[Dramatica]

Great post, great points

 

[kanaida]

When I use kenshi vs cyrax I don't use projectiles much. I just wait for his teleport and do the close dash move. B,f,2. When he's far its very easy to block or destroy nets for energy. Basically if I just block nets I always win for the most part, but if you just shot fireballs over and over you'd probably loose. That's generic to anyone fighting cyrax though. I just walk backwards until he teleports and bam lol. They can never help it after missing so many nets and bombs. If two people had little experience, it would probably be cyrax winning I guess. More experience and it all changes drastically in favor of the fighter using better strategy.

 

[Qwark28]

Pig Of The Hut

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Kenshi's Spirit charge does help in this matchup. Just don't trade with nets with it, and don't let Cyrax jump over them. But the sheer amount of times that Kenshi has to be correct with spirit charge, and the small number of times that Cyrax has to be correct with either, a net trade, a jump in, a teleport in, a bomb landing, or just the Cyrax punishing Kenshi's mistakes extremely hard, I think that this match is in Cyrax favor.

All Kenshi has to do is stay at max range of the shoulder and mid bomb, theres nothing he has to do but react.

 

[Qwark28]

When I use kenshi vs cyrax I don't use projectiles much. I just wait for his teleport and do the close dash move. B,f,2. When he's far its very easy to block or destroy nets for energy. Basically if I just block nets I always win for the most part, but if you just shot fireballs over and over you'd probably loose. That's generic to anyone fighting cyrax though. I just walk backwards until he teleports and bam lol. They can never help it after missing so many nets and bombs. If two people had little experience, it would probably be cyrax winning I guess. More experience and it all changes drastically in favor of the fighter using better strategy.

dude, youve been made fun of many times for talking about your matches vs low lvl players

not to be mean but you won't be taken seriously when your best match to analyse this matchup with is from someone who doesn't have patience against kenshi and resorts to random teleports.

 

[Death]

Kenshi has no losing match ups

 

[Dizzy]

You make it sound like SC is unusable. It still dominates the match from sweep distance and closer.

His dmg is broke, but still relies on mistakes from the Kenshi player. I don't think it'd be worth it to ever use RK outside of combos on Cyrax, for example. You can't play Cyrax like you do highly favored MUs where risks aren't as big of a deal.

I'd like to see Cyrax players opinion on this MU.

 

[Slips]

Sounds like someone needs to level up.

 

[RYX]

Do bombs make problems for Kenshi? I'd think they do.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

All Kenshi has to do is stay at max range of the shoulder and mid bomb, theres nothing he has to do but react.

What is to prevent Cyrax from just walking back, creating space, and then dropping out close bombs?

You make it sound like SC is unusable. It still dominates the match from sweep distance and closer.

His dmg is broke, but still relies on mistakes from the Kenshi player. I don't think it'd be worth it to ever use RK outside of combos on Cyrax, for example. You can't play Cyrax like you do highly favored MUs where risks aren't as big of a deal.

I'd like to see Cyrax players opinion on this MU.

Spirit Charge is Kenshi's saving grace in this MU. Basically Kenshi can spam this a lot in this MU. My point is, You have to be right so many more times than Cyrax, you get 1 mistake, or mistimed move, or maybe 2.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Do bombs make problems for Kenshi? I'd think they do.

Whenever I play mustard I literally just sit around mid bomb range, everytime he opens his chest you get a free shoulder, just gotta block for the first part and check if its a net or not.

What is to prevent Cyrax from just walking back, creating space, and then dropping out close bombs?



Spirit Charge is Kenshi's saving grace in this MU. Basically Kenshi can spam this a lot in this MU. My point is, You have to be right so many more times than Cyrax, you get 1 mistake, or mistimed move, or maybe 2.

I get what you mean, but try playing it purely on reactions, you'll see what I mean, it makes the chances of making a mistake with the shoulder much less, and then if he starts doing what you're saying, you can teleflurry close bombs on reaction.

 

[Gruntypants]

I believe that Cyrax has the advantage in the Kenshi matchup. Like always, I am talking highest possible level matchups. Here are my points.

1) Ok
2) Ok
3)Ok

4) No. His teleport is so god damn slow that even if he does teleport on wakeup if you decide to spirit slash him from full screen you'll have just enough time to punish his teleport.

5) I don't know what you mean by this.

6) This doesn't change the match up.

7) Ok

8) This should be a kenshi advantage. Cyrax not breaking means you end up doing more damage and if he does break then it's gonna take him a while to get his meter back.

9)You can punish aa grab and don't be late with the sc.

10) You already said this.
11) You already stated this.

 

[kanaida]

dude, youve been made fun of many times for talking about your matches vs low lvl players

not to be mean but you won't be taken seriously when your best match to analyse this matchup with is from someone who doesn't have patience against kenshi and resorts to random teleports.

This is just a matchup and I was mostly agreeing with the writers points, I'm not sure why u got worked up over anything. I take in my dojo time and spar with random people daily and even people from this forum sometimes. All I was trying to say was that any little trick a fighter knows vs someone can mean the difference in any matchup going pro or con. I never said it was my best match, just that lots of people I fight can't fight that itch. You have to fight different play styles depending on the situation I guess is what I mean. Out of politeness I reply, but this is kind of getting redundant and off topic.

 

[kanaida]

I'm starting to think maybe I'm just confusing what you call a "match up" for something else. What does it mean to you guys exactly?

 

[RYX]

I'm starting to think maybe I'm just confusing what you call a "match up" for something else. What does it mean to you guys exactly?

an evaluation of two character's tools in a match vs each other and who's tools are better suited for the match-up, why, and whether or not it holds up

i think.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Kenshi has no losing match ups

This

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Sigh, Pig has spoken. Time for me to level up. I hate it when Slips is right (even though I can count that on 1 hand.)

Sounds like someone needs to level up.

Just for that I am going to have to school Slips in the art of him losing more in a 7-3 MU tonight. Hopefully he doesn't pull a classic slips and "forget" to bring his controller again.

 

[Rokinlobster]

Edit: My logic was wrong.

But Kenshis crouch block hit box does not duck under any of Cyraxs moves, so he can abuse 334 especially.

 

[Chongo]

Is this logic wrong at all?
Cyrax's 334 hits Kenshis crouching hitbox
Cyrax's 334 is +5
3 comes out in 10 frames.
Cyrax has a block infinite on Kenshi.

BF2 + Blk

 

[Rokinlobster]

BF2 + Blk

Yeah, but what if he has no meter?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Edit: My logic was wrong.

But Kenshis crouch block hit box does not duck under any of Cyraxs moves, so he can abuse 334 especially.

Cyrax has no answer for D1 shoulder on block, so Kenshi can pretty much mash it during Cyraxs offense.
At neutral frames its a free escape, if some1 tried to cross Kenshi over, they just get D1 shoulder AA'd

I think everyone can duck the 4 and full combo punish 334 too

 

[GGA HAN]

Yeah, but what if he has no meter?

hold up