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All of Robin's Whiffing Issues in One Video

Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
I know I said One video but then I realized that the worst whiff issue was not included in the video, so I went and made a short one on it.

The credit to this video goes to a guy I know as Ree. The point of these are to draw attention to the fact that Robin has a lot of what seems to be unintentional whiffing issues, specifically to his f3 and his Swoop Special Move (DB3). Both of these moves are Overheads, yet they whiff on crouching opponents during blockstrings.


There is also an issue with his d3 whiffing against floating opponents in the corner...who are holding back...rendering his low normal option completely useless at close range. I made a short video on it here.


I hope some of these problems will get fixed within the next patch.

I don't know who else to tag so @16 Bit
 
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Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
Edit: I uploaded the wrong video from the day before and I have now changed it to the correct video. The first few comments below are reactionary to the wrong video.

Edit 2: I thought about whether to put this in the thread or not, but I loved the comical humor too much not to put it in. It quickly compares Robin's f3 to the rest of the casts' f3.

 
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DeftMonk

Noob
Are these really whiffing issues? The different spacing of redhood before he back rolls seems to cause the issue in video 1? Robins bf3 obviously doesn't cover ground as fast as firestorm so he can recover if he was at the normal's max range when he does it.

The oh and low whiff is obviously different story lol@that.
 

Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
Swoop is not supposed to miss mid blockstring. It's an overhead special that whiffs on certain enemies that crouch, but not all. Same with f3.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I don't get what the first video has to do with Robin whiffing issues?

And the second one is understandable since a lot of low stuff whiffs on floating characters walking back. Not saying it should remain the same especially when you're sweeping from that close, just saying I get why it's doing it.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
the d3 whif is a real issue but the stuff in the first vid aren't. those were supposed to miss
I don't get what the first video has to do with Robin whiffing issues?

And the second one is understandable since a lot of low stuff whiffs on floating characters walking back. Not saying it should remain the same especially when you're sweeping from that close, just saying I get why it's doing it.
Seriously guys, c'mon. You can't honestly think that these things were intended to work this way. Anyone can see that
 

Reaper

Noob
Any comment yesterday about the first video should be disregarded because it was different video than intended and now the correct first video is posted
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Damn bro. That video with the d2 whiffing on superman. Poor robin. that is a shitload of whiffing issues you wonder if anyone even played robin in testing?
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
It should also be noted, not sure if this is a whiffing issue, that db3 on some standing opponents will only hit once instead of twice, which when you mb the move to stay safe will cause Robin to throw bird in the opposite direction and be free to a full combo
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Um I accidentally added the wrong video in the first post. I have updated it with the correct video.

@DeftMonk @omooba @Youphemism
Yeah thought that was the case lol. Although I just watched the video and I have some notes because most of what's in that first video don't seem to actually be issues or be issues as they're made out to be but I'll explain why:
  1. Isn't a whiffing issue..... but the reason it's happening is because you're inputting the forward too quickly and it's counting it along with the down in the directional buffer so it's coming out as DF4 instead of F+4. You need to time your forward a little later in that combo so you're doing it as or after the trait throw animation starts, not a frame or two before. Ie something like ....3, D2~4~F where you press forward as you see the trait throw animation start.
  2. Robin does land on the ground when he's done spinning so I don't see what the issue is here. I also tried to replicate this in practice and it's a pretty specific spacing and timing so I honestly don't think this is as big a problem as is made out.
  3. The examples of his hurtbox during air DB2 being hit by stuff are pretty bad examples lol, why would you do the spin that low anyway? It's better used to catch people trying to anti air you, higher up in your jump arc where their D2 (or Joker's gunshot) will tend to whiff. Or in the cast of the Batman example it should've been done at a height where it would get over the batarang, doing it that low is obviously going to get caught by the batarang. I don't think having a smaller hurtbox and big hitbox is necessary, maybe speed it up a little at worst.
  4. Again, I don't see how Flash's armoured F3 beating out assassin's strike is a hitbox/hurtbox "issue". You hit the armour so Robin slowed down, and Flash's F3 stays close to the opponent while circling over them so it hit the back of Robin who at that point had slowed down.
  5. I think this is just a rollback thing since it's from an online match. Doesn't seem like it would happen offline unless you came up too early or something.
  6. Ok THIS is a whiffing issue. Robin's overheads like B213 completely missing on crouching characters is an actual whiffing issue that should be addressed.
  7. Tested myself, definitely another whiffing issue that should probably be addressed. But some characters j2s miss on crouching characters too so he's not alone in the air attacks whiffing on crouchers boat ;)
  8. I drew something (pretty shoddily so they're not exactly replicating hitboxes in game but they're close enough) that hopefully helps you better understand why the comparison to Flash's F3 and assuming they should act the same isn't really as true. They have different movement arcs and so they will hit in different circumstances:
...Flash's F3 arc.................................................................................................Robin's F3 arc

Hopefully this makes sense, just let me know if it doesn't lol.

9. The clip of the J2 animation starting and it not hitting the opponent is actually not a Robin-specific whiffing issue. If you do a jump attack too low with any character the animation will begin but it will never get to the active frames so it looks like the attack should've hit but it didn't because you began it too low. You can try it in practice.
10. I have no idea why there's a comparison being made to Batman's J2. Robin's J2 isn't designed the same way as Batmans, BMs is designed to work as a crossup. Robin's J2 is more of an air to air type jump attack, like Scarecrows. J3 is better for crossups (although as I say this crossup J3 seems to be whiffing a lot on crouching Flash lol)​
11. That D2 whiff was fucked up though, that should be fixed also.
12. If the 2nd hit of 212 is also supposed to be considered a mid then yeah that should probably be fixed too.​

This is just what I noticed anyway :)
Seriously guys, c'mon. You can't honestly think that these things were intended to work this way. Anyone can see that
Reread the post you quoted, you seem to have missed the point of what I said lol
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Yeah thought that was the case lol. Although I just watched the video and I have some notes because most of what's in that first video don't seem to actually be issues or be issues as they're made out to be but I'll explain why:
  1. Isn't a whiffing issue..... but the reason it's happening is because you're inputting the forward too quickly and it's counting it along with the down in the directional buffer so it's coming out as DF4 instead of F+4. You need to time your forward a little later in that combo so you're doing it as or after the trait throw animation starts, not a frame or two before. Ie something like ....3, D2~4~F where you press forward as you see the trait throw animation start.
  2. Robin does land on the ground when he's done spinning so I don't see what the issue is here. I also tried to replicate this in practice and it's a pretty specific spacing and timing so I honestly don't think this is as big a problem as is made out.
  3. The examples of his hurtbox during air DB2 being hit by stuff are pretty bad examples lol, why would you do the spin that low anyway? It's better used to catch people trying to anti air you, higher up in your jump arc where their D2 (or Joker's gunshot) will tend to whiff. Or in the cast of the Batman example it should've been done at a height where it would get over the batarang, doing it that low is obviously going to get caught by the batarang. I don't think having a smaller hurtbox and big hitbox is necessary, maybe speed it up a little at worst.
  4. Again, I don't see how Flash's armoured F3 beating out assassin's strike is a hitbox/hurtbox "issue". You hit the armour so Robin slowed down, and Flash's F3 stays close to the opponent while circling over them so it hit the back of Robin who at that point had slowed down.
  5. I think this is just a rollback thing since it's from an online match. Doesn't seem like it would happen offline unless you came up too early or something.
  6. Ok THIS is a whiffing issue. Robin's overheads like B213 completely missing on crouching characters is an actual whiffing issue that should be addressed.
  7. Tested myself, definitely another whiffing issue that should probably be addressed. But some characters j2s miss on crouching characters too so he's not alone in the air attacks whiffing on crouchers boat ;)
  8. I drew something (pretty shoddily so they're not exactly replicating hitboxes in game but they're close enough) that hopefully helps you better understand why the comparison to Flash's F3 and assuming they should act the same isn't really as true. They have different movement arcs and so they will hit in different circumstances:
...Flash's F3 arc.................................................................................................Robin's F3 arc

Hopefully this makes sense, just let me know if it doesn't lol.

9. The clip of the J2 animation starting and it not hitting the opponent is actually not a Robin-specific whiffing issue. If you do a jump attack too low with any character the animation will begin but it will never get to the active frames so it looks like the attack should've hit but it didn't because you began it too low. You can try it in practice.
10. I have no idea why there's a comparison being made to Batman's J2. Robin's J2 isn't designed the same way as Batmans, BMs is designed to work as a crossup. Robin's J2 is more of an air to air type jump attack, like Scarecrows. J3 is better for crossups (although as I say this crossup J3 seems to be whiffing a lot on crouching Flash lol)​
11. That D2 whiff was fucked up though, that should be fixed also.
12. If the 2nd hit of 212 is also supposed to be considered a mid then yeah that should probably be fixed too.​

This is just what I noticed anyway :)

Reread the post you quoted, you seem to have missed the point of what I said lol
Ya I agree with you (for the most part) some of these arent that bad at all and maybe should be cut out. BUT that being said, there are characters who have a crossup intended j2 or j3 that whiffs on crouchers ( joker, as u said scarecrow and more) and that can't be intended? I know im new to injustice and not all fighting games are the same but jeez really? go for perfectly setup crossup ::eek:pponent ducks:: you lose ur turn or worse even?

The active frames on ji2 ya that isnt necessarily wrong all fighting games will do that if u input that close to the ground. But as far as the F3 goes... I understand the arc picture that you drew and when I was labbing robin this was my understanding as well. But, what is the purpose of this move then? Straight yolo on someone who is about to whiff from half screen? The fact taht you cant mb cancel into f3 without it just straight up whiffing tells me its flawed in design (IMO I'm a newb and know nothing mind you).

Any company that redoes their netcode a year after release just for fan service is a champion in my eyes and I am sure they will address this stuff in time.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Ya I agree with you (for the most part) some of these arent that bad at all and maybe should be cut out. BUT that being said, there are characters who have a crossup intended j2 or j3 that whiffs on crouchers ( joker, as u said scarecrow and more) and that can't be intended? I know im new to injustice and not all fighting games are the same but jeez really? go for perfectly setup crossup ::eek:pponent ducks:: you lose ur turn or worse even?

The active frames on ji2 ya that isnt necessarily wrong all fighting games will do that if u input that close to the ground. But as far as the F3 goes... I understand the arc picture that you drew and when I was labbing robin this was my understanding as well. But, what is the purpose of this move then? Straight yolo on someone who is about to whiff from half screen? The fact taht you cant mb cancel into f3 without it just straight up whiffing tells me its flawed in design (IMO I'm a newb and know nothing mind you).

Any company that redoes their netcode a year after release just for fan service is a champion in my eyes and I am sure they will address this stuff in time.
Yeah Jokers J2 used to cross up super easily in Injustice 1 including on crouching opponents but I guess they thought it was a bit much and changed the hitbox for Injustice 2 (which fucked up some corner combos but whatever). Not sure what they're going for or if it's intended or what.

The purpose of F3 is to get a close bounce/unclashable damage or a bounce in the corner without a transition, same as other F3s. His can cross up in certain situations, like in the corner, but since it travels a further horizontal distance than Flash's F3 it's not going to cross up at the same distances or in the same places consistently. When you say you can't mb cancel into it do you mean on block or on hit? A F3 doesn't have to link from stuff to be working as intended, it still has all the properties a F3 should have.