General/Other - Alien Alien Suggested Fixes & Normalizations

[Tweedy]

The risk/reward on the overhead rekka is already pretty poor and the move is somewhat reactable. I think it should keep it's low crushing dirt. Besides that I agree.

 

[Tweedy]

I agree with all of the changes above, but I would throw these in there also.

- F1 is now a high
- F134 now has less block stun on all hits allowing opponents to armor or attempt to backdash if Alien cancels into a special move
- Tail Flip (B,F+4) now has an slightly elevated hurt box on recovery allowing opponents to punish more consistently

Alien's F1 isn't even a good mid.

Edit: People tell me on here that Triborg's F4 is a bad mid. The frames are basically the same.

 

[myri]

He would still be good with these changes, lol.

I know, just less so than before which is nice.

 

[Ze Dingo]

"omg Tarkatan is now ruined and bottom tier because rekkas have been turned into actual rekkas".

Then, they haven't been caught meterless in the corner by an MK rekka character. Since the delay mindgame exists, you are already hesitant to poke. And then the rekka finally ends at +1 or so. You try to challenge, but get out-poked and pokes being special cancellable, you are back in the same chip damage vortex with D1~rekka.

It's just stupid and unnecessary and in my opinion, really needs to be seriously looked at for future games.

NRS really needs to be consistent with what they do. And they need to stop giving multiple tools to characters. Again comes down to consistency. Put them under an archetype. Characters with tremendous range don't need ridiculous chip damage pressure to go with it. I made a really long post about it, somewhere, I'm not sure if I can find it.

I firmly believe that this is one of the reasons why people who aren't actually attached to the franchise will not pick up NRS games in their current state.

End of rant.

 

[Invincible Salads]

What do you mean "whats wrong with characters having moves that are technically limbs but still function as weapons."? It wouldn't be an issue if something like this applied to the majority of the cast. It applies to one specific character at the moment and a second character (D'Vorah) is awfully close to having the same thing if her ovipostors were considered limbs. Alien pretty much doesn't have a rule applying to him that applies to the rest of the cast, barring D'Vorah.

If something that wasn't a part of their body did this, then it wouldn't be an issue BECAUSE IT ISN'T A PART OF THEIR BODY. That's the whole debate here. You can't "forget" using the source of the debate. Weapons clearly shouldn't be affected by the clone because it's an inanimate object. Who cares if it were to get frozen? The person holding said weapon wouldn't be affected by it.

If you take your hand and put it in liquid nitrogen, it's gonna freeze and hurt like hell. If you use the same hand and put a stick in the liquid nitrogen instead, you wouldn't be affected as the stick isn't a part of your body. Using weapons as a counter argument to limbs being affected is asinine. They are not one and the same. Oh, and I know I just used a real life situation to prove my point for a game, but let's not try and single that out when it backs up my point.

and im saying forget about what realistically makes sense for a minute as far as limbs and weapons. Sure the tail is attatched, its a limb. But clearly nrs intended for it to function as a weapon.

If they take his, why shouldnt they take away everyone elses then? Its either all ok, or none of it is. And honestly if none of it is, then i feel this game would get really wonky.

 

[dennycascade]

He would still be good with these changes, lol.

Konjurer wouldn't. Not at all.

 

[RVB]

I don't think we're going to see hitboxes on Alien or D'vorah's limbs just cause NRS can't handle them properly.
I have a serious doubt about a dev when they perceive it OK for Ferra/Torr to stick it's ENTIRE arm through the klone and NOT get frozen.

Granted the FT example was from a long time ago... maybe that was fixed.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

and ice clone deserves to be god against every character too right?

This Smfh.

 

[coconutshrimp]

and im saying forget about what realistically makes sense for a minute as far as limbs and weapons. Sure the tail is attatched, its a limb. But clearly nrs intended for it to function as a weapon.

If they take his, why shouldnt they take away everyone elses then? Its either all ok, or none of it is. And honestly if none of it is, then i feel this game would get really wonky.

This literally makes no sense at all.

Just what?!?!? You literally just said yes it is a limb but it shouldn't act like a limb. BUT IT IS A LIMB!!!

 

[Eldriken]

and im saying forget about what realistically makes sense for a minute as far as limbs and weapons. Sure the tail is attatched, its a limb. But clearly nrs intended for it to function as a weapon.

If they take his, why shouldnt they take away everyone elses then? Its either all ok, or none of it is. And honestly if none of it is, then i feel this game would get really wonky.

Time to blow your mind, dude.

Everyone's limbs in this games are weapons. Yet no one else except for two characters gets to use said "weapons" to hit through the clone.

Before you try to pull that "But not every character should have the same options" nonsense, look at the issue here: two characters have "tools" to ignore something that every other character in the game doesn't get to ignore despite having the very same tools: LIMBS.

 

[The_Tile]

Alien's F1 isn't even a good mid.

Edit: People tell me on here that Triborg's F4 is a bad mid. The frames are basically the same.

Triborgs F4 is pretty much always punishable without meter and Alien's F1 is attached to one of the best strings in the game which has mixups mid string and can be cancelled into a safe, meterless special.

 

[REO]

Konjurer wouldn't. Not at all.

So Conjurer would all of a sudden become not good because he lost a half screen overhead armor launcher and have one of his jump ins normalized? That's a bit too dramatic.

Just because players prefer to use the S tier variations of Alien does not mean Conjurer isn't dumb. It's an A+ variation and one of the better characters in the game.

 

[Tweedy]

Triborgs F4 is pretty much always punishable without meter and Alien's F1 is attached to one of the best strings in the game which has mixups mid string and can be cancelled into a safe, meterless special.

Lets just ignore Smoke's launching string that can be staggered safely.

Either way, you can't just stagger Alien's F1 and use it in the neutral, like it's Kotal's B1 or Mileena's B1. 90% of TYM misses the recovery section of the frame data.

 

[The_Tile]

Lets just ignore Smoke's launching string that can be staggered safely.

Either way, you can't just stagger Alien's F1 and use it in the neutral, like it's Kotal's B1 or Mileena's B1. 90% of TYM misses the recovery section of the frame data.

Oh yeah I don't play Smoke, forgot about that.

And if you use it sparingly F1 staggers aren't to outlandish. It's not as good for staggers as the characters you mentioned but that's not what makes it so good anyway.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

F1 be made a high.

Reduce the hitbox of ex Tail Flip, or remove it's armor. Either option is fine.

Hurt box on the tail.

If I'm using Ermac and I d3 sub after ice clone I get frozen. Alien & D'Vorah stick their limbs through clone and laugh as it breaks.

I also don't believe Tarkatan should be able to combo into Rekka off of max range b3. It looks rather ridiculous for Alien to be near half screen, hit b3 then suddenly be pressed against the character doing rekkas. Imagine if Dhalsim could stick a poke out, confirm then continue to combo suddenly in point blank range.

As far as the ex Tail flip. Let's be serious here. The move has fast startup, a deceptively tall hit box, goes over lows and is an overhead that launches. Having no armor just means you can't recklessly throw it out on wake up or in the neutral. It isn't as though you'll do F13 xx ex tail flip and I'm going to jab you out of it.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Time to blow your mind, dude.

Everyone's limbs in this games are weapons. Yet no one else except for two characters gets to use said "weapons" to hit through the clone.

Before you try to pull that "But not every character should have the same options" nonsense, look at the issue here: two characters have "tools" to ignore something that every other character in the game doesn't get to ignore despite having the very same tools: LIMBS.

What about Takeda? His whips act as limbs and functionally behave no different than D'Vorah's or Alien's.

If it's not agreed that Takeda is in the same boat... would it change things if Alien and D'Vorah had costume designs where their Tail and Ovipositor were metal so they're perceived as attachments (weapons)?

And while my head is going... speaking of consistency, shouldn't Ferra's limbs be caught when Torr tosses her straight into a Clone?

 

[Eldriken]

What about Takeda? His whips act as limbs and functionally behave no different than D'Vorah's or Alien's.

If it's not agreed that Takeda is in the same boat... would it change things if Alien and D'Vorah had costume designs where their Tail and Ovipositor were metal so they're perceived as attachments (weapons)?

And while my head is going... speaking of consistency, shouldn't Ferra's limbs be caught when Torr tosses her straight into a Clone?

Ferra isn't a part of Torr's body, she's her own entity that remains unaffected by anything in the game. Takeda's whips are not limbs. They're inanimate objects used as weapons. Them being frozen wouldn't directly affect Takeda.

 

[Tweedy]

There isn't more of a "I don't have Alien unlocked but he has to be nerfed somehow right", response, than F1 needing to be a high.

I hope they remove F134 from the game, so people who don't have Alien unlocked can realize that that's not what makes him top tier.

 

[Poshib]

There isn't more of a "I don't have Alien unlocked but he has to be nerfed somehow right", response, than F1 needing to be a high.

I hope they remove F134 from the game, so people who don't have Alien unlocked can realize that that's not what makes him top tier.

Ok dude, now you're disrespecting. You can agree or you can disagree, but the insults are unnecessary.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Ferra isn't a part of Torr's body, she's her own entity that remains unaffected by anything in the game. Takeda's whips are not limbs. They're inanimate objects used as weapons. Them being frozen wouldn't directly affect Takeda.

Ok, forget Ferra. That was more of a tangent. I'm trying to clarify if you're basing what makes sense on a functional level purely on aesthetics.

So if Takeda functioned exactly the same way he does with whips; same exact normals/strings.... but aesthetically they changed it from separate whips coming out of his sleeves to extensions of his arms (like Dhalsim)... then it would makes sense for him to be frozen by the Clone?

 

[Eldriken]

Ok, forget Ferra. That was more of a tangent. I'm trying to clarify if you're basing what makes sense on a functional level purely on aesthetics.

So if Takeda functioned exactly the same way he does with whips; same exact normals/strings.... but aesthetically they changed it from separate whips coming out of his sleeves to extensions of his arms (like Dhalsim)... then it would makes sense for him to be frozen by the Clone?

If said extensions weren't inanimate objects and were a living part of his body, sure. If not, no.

 

[Invincible Salads]

whatever, this is why im slowly avoiding buff/nerf threads everywhere for everything.

its like ramming my head against a brick wall.

 

[ChaosTheory]

If said extensions weren't inanimate objects and were a living part of his body, sure. If not, no.

I see. I can't say I agree with making functional gameplay decisions like that based on the technicality of aesthetics.

I think if you're going to have stupid-ranged limbs/weapons, passing through the Clone with disjointed hit-boxes is ok. The Clone just shouldn't go away on block unless you block an armor move or something. Like certain characters shouldn't be able to just start throwing out strings or jump in on the Clone like it's not even there... but then a character like War God Kotal shouldn't spend a bar to blow through Clone, have Sub-Zero block, and then land back in the Clone.

Make it stay on block against normals or non-MB specials, go away on MB specials.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I see. I can't say I agree with making functional gameplay decisions like that based on the technicality of aesthetics.

I think if you're going to have stupid-ranged limbs/weapons, passing through the Clone with disjointed hit-boxes is ok. The Clone just shouldn't go away on block unless you block an armor move or something. Like certain characters shouldn't be able to just start throwing out strings or jump in on the Clone like it's not even there... but then a character like War God Kotal shouldn't spend a bar to blow through Clone, have Sub-Zero block, and then land back in the Clone.

Make it stay on block against normals or non-MB specials, go away on MB specials.

are you kidding? Subzero would become even more retarded in the corner, he'd basically be at bo rai cho level except sub would have better mixups and can actually get you to the fucking corner and has better mobility as well. (not exactly, actually i think bo's cropduster stays on hit too. my point though is sub doesnt need his corner game getting that rediculous when he's a much better character in the neutral than bo is)

also chew on this, for the sake of arguement, if aliens tail wasnt an actual limb anymore but was something completely different, yet still did the exact same thing it does now, i'd bet 90% of you would drop that whole "If its a weapon an not a limb its ok" stuff real fast.

 

[Error]

It's really embarrassing how desperately Alien players are trying to justify them getting out of ice clone for free on top of everything else the character has.