General/Other - Alien Alien Suggested Fixes & Normalizations

[RVB]

are you kidding? Subzero would become even more (soap bar in my mouth) in the corner, he'd basically be at bo rai cho level except sub would have better mixups and can actually get you to the fucking corner and has better mobility as well.

also chew on this, for the sake of arguement, if aliens tail wasnt an actual limb anymore but was something completely different, yet still did the exact same thing it does now, i'd bet 90% of you would drop that whole "If its a weapon an not a limb its ok" stuff real fast.

For a guy that is simply gonna drop Alien if some of these nerfs happen, you sure like complaining about SZ and his all powerful Klone.

 

[Eldriken]

are you kidding? Subzero would become even more (soap bar in my mouth) in the corner, he'd basically be at bo rai cho level except sub would have better mixups and can actually get you to the fucking corner and has better mobility as well.

also chew on this, for the sake of arguement, if aliens tail wasnt an actual limb anymore but was something completely different, yet still did the exact same thing it does now, i'd bet 90% of you would drop that whole "If its a weapon an not a limb its ok" stuff real fast.

If it was an artificial tail, I wouldn't give a shit because it isn't a living part of what it's connected to.

You seem to be completely missing the point that no other character's limbs in this game get to IGNORE the ice clone and go right through it to hit Sub-Zero. If you try to punch it, kick it, poke it or anything of that nature, it's Sub's turn.

If someone raising points about their thought(s) on the matter is like slamming your head on the desk, well, then maybe you should learn how to convey your thoughts on in a bit better instead of just saying "whatever".

 

[Dankster Morgan]

It's really embarrassing how desperately Alien players are trying to justify them getting out of ice clone for free on top of everything else the character has.

Iv actually switched from sub to alien and its fucked up.

 

[Invincible Salads]

If it was an artificial tail, I wouldn't give a shit because it isn't a living part of what it's connected to.

You seem to be completely missing the point that no other character's limbs in this game get to IGNORE the ice clone and go right through it to hit Sub-Zero. If you try to punch it, kick it, poke it or anything of that nature, it's Sub's turn.

If someone raising points about their thought(s) on the matter is like slamming your head on the desk, well, then maybe you should learn how to convey your thoughts on in a bit better instead of just saying "whatever".

and to me thats kinda petty, changing your mind simply because the tail would no longer be an actual part of the body, yet would function the same exact way. Details like that should be last in line for reasons to change something in a FG, just my opinion i guess.

and i feel like im banging my head against the wall because it seems like people either arent getting what im saying or don't care. So why bother?

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

@Poshib Pay it no mind

 

[Dankster Morgan]

and to me thats kinda petty, changing your mind simply because the tail would no longer be an actual part of the body, yet would function the same exact way. Details like that should be last in line for reasons to change something in a FG, just my opinion i guess.

and i feel like im banging my head against the wall because it seems like people either arent getting what im saying or don't care. So why bother?

Because the tail shouldn't go through an ice Klone. But yeah keep worrying that a low mid character will get out of control while he gets raped by the best character in the game.

 

[ChaosTheory]

are you kidding? Subzero would become even more (soap bar in my mouth) in the corner, he'd basically be at bo rai cho level except sub would have better mixups and can actually get you to the fucking corner and has better mobility as well.

What makes it worse? The only thing this really affects are characters that blow right through the Clone mid-screen. If you already have a rough time in the corner against the Clone, what does this change? You're not getting past the Clone to make Sub-Zero block anyway. Doesn't affect projectiles, doesn't affect armor, doesn't affect successful pokes/attacks.

also chew on this, for the sake of arguement, if aliens tail wasnt an actual limb anymore but was something completely different, yet still did the exact same thing it does now, i'd bet 90% of you would drop that whole "If its a weapon an not a limb its ok" stuff real fast.

If this is directed towards me, I have no idea why. I just made multiple posts saying the exact same thing using Alien/D'Vorah as examples (Tail and Ovipositor being metal attachments) and Takeda (whips being extended limbs like Dhalsim's). I actually agree with you here. Either all of it is ok or none of it is ok.

 

[Eldriken]

and to me thats kinda petty, changing your mind simply because the tail would no longer be an actual part of the body, yet would function the same exact way. Details like that should be last in line for reasons to change something in a FG, just my opinion i guess.

and i feel like im banging my head against the wall because it seems like people either arent getting what im saying or don't care. So why bother?

How is it hard for you to understand? Inanimate objects should NOT be affected by anything because they aren't a LIVING part of what/who they are attached to.

Projectiles go through the clone. Makes sense, yes?

Weapons like Takeda's whips, Kotal's sword, Mileena's sais (b1 in Piercing), Kung Jin's staff, etc all go through the clone, as they should.

But my fists, legs, feet, etc are all weapons, right? Despite this, since they are limbs, they are affected by the clone, so upon touching it, you become frozen. Alien's tail is an aforementioned limb, thus it should be affected by the clone.

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

[Invincible Salads]

im out, lol


i get what your saying, but i still don't think it should matter. despite the fact that the tail is a limb, its clearly intended that it was meant to be treated as a weapon, same as scorpions swords/takeda's whips. Since this is the case, limb or not, it still falls into the same category. Which means, like i said before, either it all goes or it all stays.

this is the last amount of input ill have for this thread, have fun xD

 

[RVB]

@Eldriken by the time you convince Invincible Lettuce of what you are saying I'll be able to fully construct a working prosthetic Alien tail that I will attach to myself and proceed to bitch slap bronies with

 

[tafka Djinn]

@Invincible Salads I don't agree with it, but I respect your opinion. I think there is room for comprise with a sweet-spot at the tip of the tail not to have a hurtbox, but the rest of it having one.

Also, heck yeah ponies.

 

[Darth-Nero]

NRS are pretty clear about what should have a hurtbox and what shouldn't, Reptiles b1 tongue attack goes right through the clone if his body doesn't touch it. Did NRS forget that a tongue is a major body part so they didn't add a hurtbox to it? of course not. Anything that isn't arms, legs, head or torso wasn't intended to have a hurtbox in this game.
Same as why D'vorah's pincers have the same properties, perhaps for the specific reason of not making grandmaster a broken variation. His bullshit clone is fine as long as there are characters who can deal with it.

I don't really wanna take part of the "tail = limb" discussion cause i find it mildly autistic however, technically speaking, Alien have an exoskeleton and his tail is formed entirely of hard bones with a spear end to be used as a weapon very much like a scorpion's tail. So his tail is more of a weapon than it is a vulnerable limb, Therefore it makes prefect sense that it's treated as a weapon thus doesn't have a hurtbox.

Am very disappointed of the demeanor in this discussion with Invincible Salads , Your hate for Alien is no excuse to be assholes to someone who's just defending his character.

 

[Eldriken]

NRS are pretty clear about what should have a hurtbox and what shouldn't, Reptiles b1 tongue attack goes right through the clone if his body doesn't touch it. Did NRS forget that a tongue is a major body part so they didn't add a hurtbox to it? of course not. Anything that isn't arms, legs, head or torso wasn't intended to have a hurtbox in this game.
Same as why D'vorah's pincers have the same properties, perhaps for the specific reason of not making grandmaster a broken variation. His bullshit clone is fine as long as there are characters who can deal with it.

I don't really wanna take part of the "tail = limb" discussion cause i find it mildly autistic however, technically speaking, Alien have an exoskeleton and his tail is formed entirely of hard bones with a spear end to be used as a weapon very much like a scorpion's tail. So his tail is more of a weapon than it is a vulnerable limb, Therefore it makes prefect sense that it's treated as a weapon thus doesn't have a hurtbox.

Am very disappointed of the demeanor in this discussion with Invincible Salads , Your hate for Alien is no excuse to be assholes to someone who's just defending his character.

You have an issue and try to say the discussion is "autistic".

Oh, and I don't hate Alien. I also wasn't being an asshole towards him. Ya'll need some thicker skin if you think people are being assholes in this thread.

 

[coconutshrimp]

im out, lol


i get what your saying, but i still don't think it should matter. despite the fact that the tail is a limb, its clearly intended that it was meant to be treated as a weapon, same as scorpions swords/takeda's whips. Since this is the case, limb or not, it still falls into the same category. Which means, like i said before, either it all goes or it all stays.

this is the last amount of input ill have for this thread, have fun xD

You are literally saying "Yes his tail is a limb but it shouldn't act like one because fuck sub-zero"

This is completely asinine reasoning to justify Alien's tail working the way it does.

"Oh but it was intended to be like a weapon" really now? So if i ask the creator of the Alien franchise he will be able to tell that it was intended to be like a weapon? "No NRS intended it to be" well NRS so far, at least IMO has been pretty faithful when it comes to the source material used for these guest characters so them changing something into something it wasn't intended to be... Well I wouldn't count on that.

But that's how I see it anyways.

 

[Wolverine32]

and ice clone deserves to be god against every character too right?

No, but body parts going through the clone is

I really don't see why it being a limb really matters. Outside of the quality of the normals and specials it's not really different from a character with a weapon like Bartitsu or Kung Jin. I don't feel that strongly about it either way, but I just don't see why Alien and D'vorah would be singled out over some other characters. Though I do think making hurtboxes all on weapons and long limbs could create some wonkiness, perhaps for the best but I'm not so sure.

The real answer is to just remove GM and Alien from the game

Wonkiness would be the best way to describe it... If Kung Jin's bow or Takeda's whips/blades got hit by normals and such and counted as a hit to their body I think it would be kind of stupid. Obviously I have bias towards Kung Jin, but I do believe weapons without a hitbox and body parts parts without a hitbox are different because of the fact that one is a limb and one could in theory just be let go of if it did touch the klone which is why we're discussing the hurt box issue in the first place. I don't know how we can fairly address aliens tail or dvorah's ovipositors and the weapon based hitbox free moves mentioned above, but I believe body parts and weapons are different imo whether it benefits me or not. I do think however f134 should just be 3 mid hits and they can either commit to a 50/50 afterwards or rekkas in tarkatan. Because the overhead flip instead of the low that leads to a combo is basically free and this would alleviate that I believe.

 

[RVB]

NRS are pretty clear about what should have a hurtbox and what shouldn't, Reptiles b1 tongue attack goes right through the clone if his body doesn't touch it. Did NRS forget that a tongue is a major body part so they didn't add a hurtbox to it? of course not. Anything that isn't arms, legs, head or torso wasn't intended to have a hurtbox in this game.
Same as why D'vorah's pincers have the same properties, perhaps for the specific reason of not making grandmaster a broken variation. His bullshit clone is fine as long as there are characters who can deal with it

Are you seriously comparing Reptile's tongue to Aliens tail??? Because that almost tops Tweedy's Alien down play.

Also let there be known that after more than a year of MKX, Grandmaster SZ is so broken that we need D'vorah and Alien to keep it in check.
GG @Darth-Nero and the rest of the scrubs

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Are you seriously comparing Reptile's tongue to Aliens tail??? Because that almost tops Tweedy's Alien down play.

Also let there be known that after more than a year of MKX, Grandmaster SZ is so broken that we need D'vorah and Alien to keep it in check.
GG @Darth-Nero and the rest of the scrubs

Tweedy doesn't downplay Alien but I agree, the idea that if the hurt boxes were fixed would make Sub broken is insane.

 

[Vick]

Alien 's tail should not go through the clone. Comparing it to weapons tho.

 

[Darth-Nero]

You have an issue and try to say the discussion is "autistic".

Oh, and I don't hate Alien. I also wasn't being an asshole towards him. Ya'll need some thicker skin if you think people are being assholes in this thread.

Yeah it is autistic if the inter notion of the discussion is based on the anatomy of an Alien's weapon/tail needing a hurtbox cuz "zomg limb XDDDD"

and yeah i wasn't pointing at you with the asshole thing.

Are you seriously comparing Reptile's tongue to Aliens tail??? Because that almost tops Tweedy's Alien down play.

Also let there be known that after more than a year of MKX, Grandmaster SZ is so broken that we need D'vorah and Alien to keep it in check.
GG @Darth-Nero and the rest of the scrubs

Don't quote me if shitposting is all you got. you're not addressing anything i said.

 

[Eldriken]

Yeah it is autistic if the inter notion of the discussion is based on the anatomy of an Alien's weapon/tail needing a hurtbox cuz "zomg limb XDDDD"

and yeah i wasn't pointing at you with the asshole thing.



Don't quote me if shitposting is all you got. you're not addressing anything i said.

Do you even know what Autism is without Googling it? Don't pull that nonsense here. If you want to discuss this matter further, PM me.

 

[HellRider]

i liked the idea of reducing rekkas meter building and chip damage

 

[Marinjuana]

Think you guys are trying to apply too much logic to an ice clone. Some characters press a button and the move that comes out has a clone immune hitbox, that the move is or isn't using one of the four traditional limbs seems irrelevant.

 

[RVB]

The funny thing is that this debate is just pointless because we all know for a fact, even REO does, that hitboxes on D'vorah and Alien are not gonna happen.
We wouldn't even need to have this conversation if people like @Darth-Nero wouldn't cry their hearts out about SZ in the first week of MKX then got the klone to go away on block.

Also I'll go out on a limb...... and say that MK9 Sub would do better vs D'Vorah and Alien just cuz all the clipping issues would not matter anymore. #IcePuddle4theWIN