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After playing MK11 for a bit, I have got something to say.

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
As some of you know if you have been following my feed, I got MK11 recently. I have gotten a decent amount of gear and finished story mode. But that's the boring casual stuff you're not here to hear from me. You want to know about my thoughts on the game in a competitive. Well, we'll get to that in a second. I want to talk about something related to Mortal Kombat. I hope this is the right place to put this thread but I have been thinking that we will play an MK no matter what but are quick to dip when Injustice is over. I have noticed the excitement and hype level for both games.(I have been with this community since MK9.). We are like, "Oh cool new Injustice." But for MK, we're like, "Omfg let's go! MK is back baby!" It even shows in attendance for games when they're hot and "dead". We just love MK more and just treat Injustice as a filler game before we get our MK fix. Am I the only one to notice this? I mean there isn't a mistake that both MK9 and MK10 still have player bases going while Injustice is bare wasteland.

If this wrestling this would be Injustice->
and this is the MK->
watching the entrance of the video.

This where MK11 comes in. I think it will be joining MK9 and MK10 in the relam of games that are considered "dead" but are not as a decent amount of people still play them. Why? Because I feel it fills a niche for those who don't like the infinites of MK9 and 50/50s(I never played MKX but going off from tournament footage and what people have told me) deletion of MKX. MK11 has finally, "Okay enough with the zoning we want people to actually go in." Every match of MK11 is players pulling off sick reads, turning defense into offense, and really reminding why some prefer neutral base fighters with less of a focus on flashy combos. People have to think if they want to get the big damage or keep their turn in MK11 and I like that. My longtime main of MK was Jax and compared to 9, he is super fucking different. He is much more mixup and neutral focus. You really just won't be able to ground pound and 1111s your way to big damage. His combos are short but sweet and can leave you in good spots to keep the pressure going. They really have made him into someone with small combos but good ways to keep his turn going and turn defense into offense. MK11 may be some of the best gameplay in the series as there is a counter to everything you do and forces you to think. Yeah, there is some jank in this game, but I'll take it over having to deal with Block infinite stun in Kabal or zoning Freddy. This game shows me NRS has learned from past mistakes(Need to dial it back on the FTP stuff though) gameplay wise. People are being force to come up with counters and not hope a balance patch save them. While ninjakilla is running train over everyone with Cage, I wouldn't be shock if Cage doesn't win Final Kombat as I see other players coming up with their own tech.

So while MK11 may not check all the boxes for the casual side of an mk game, it does for a competitive game in my opinion.
 
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Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I would agree. It's not a casual game and it can be an uphill battle for those who have never taken a fighting game seriously, in terms of learning mechanics, frame data, etc., not necessarily just competing, but wanting to improve also.

It's definitely not a game you can hop in and mash and expect to win, and the only green-friendly mechanic are the Fatal Blows since they cost no resource, do 30% damage and have armor to back it up.

Which is not to say I don't have complaints about it, there's a lot of work that still needs to be done and NRS needs to really put in the time because this can become one of their best FGs if they give it the love it deserves.

We are getting a Joker trailer, and possibly a Kombat Kast soon as well. Will that bring in a new patch? I really, really hope so, because some stuff needs to change. People are tired of the current top tier meta, the way they buffed some chars made no sense (Johnny has 2 9f specials, one that has no gap and can be amped to make every string safe), and some third variations that are just downright useless.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
I don't know man, Shinsuke Nakamura's entrance kicks so much ass. If I could walk into my cubicle every day at work like that I totally would.
Yeah but he lsot his thunder after that.


I would agree. It's not a casual game and it can be an uphill battle for those who have never taken a fighting game seriously, in terms of learning mechanics, frame data, etc., not necessarily just competing, but wanting to improve also.

It's definitely not a game you can hop in and mash and expect to win, and the only green-friendly mechanic are the Fatal Blows since they cost no resource, do 30% damage and have armor to back it up.

Which is not to say I don't have complaints about it, there's a lot of work that still needs to be done and NRS needs to really put in the time because this can become one of their best FGs if they give it the love it deserves.

We are getting a Joker trailer, and possibly a Kombat Kast soon as well. Will that bring in a new patch? I really, really hope so, because some stuff needs to change. People are tired of the current top tier meta, the way they buffed some chars made no sense (Johnny has 2 9f specials, one that has no gap and can be amped to make every string safe), and some third variations that are just downright useless.
I can see some issues honesty. I can see what the patches have done. I tip my cap for not patching the game into the ground, but a shake is needed to keep things fresh as we have took our time to point out the issues. Also fatal blows can only be used once if landed and are super unsafe on block. The amount of counterplay for a fatal blow is insane.
 
MK11 is ok competitively? MK is not....for casuals????

Statements like that reinforce what I know about this forum: It is filled with casual players that pretend to know what neutral is, how risk / reward works in a FG, frame data consistency, footsies....I mean....if you play the game, you see it that a lot moves and mechanics breaks neutral.

It is sad because you see that foundation is there. Play raiden vs noob dor example....you have footsies there and the bullshit is tolerable. But man....look at liu kang for ex (im a liu kang player)...50/50s are not only overheads and lows in this game. You really have to choose if you wanna die by grabs or by f4. It is just one example....

They sold the game with the mask of being neutral based....and people who play fighting games know that is not true, but the casual will defend his favorite game until the end of times...
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
MK11 is ok competitively? MK is not....for casuals????

Statements like that reinforce what I know about this forum: It is filled with casual players that pretend to know what neutral is, how risk / reward works in a FG, frame data consistency, footsies....I mean....if you play the game, you see it that a lot moves and mechanics breaks neutral.

It is sad because you see that foundation is there. Play raiden vs noob dor example....you have footsies there and the bullshit is tolerable. But man....look at liu kang for ex (im a liu kang player)...50/50s are not only overheads and lows in this game. You really have to choose if you wanna die by grabs or by f4. It is just one example....

They sold the game with the mask of being neutral based....and people who play fighting games know that is not true, but the casual will defend his favorite game until the end of times...
How does f4 break neutral? Even if he can stagger out of it in an annoying fashion, he still has to play the game to get there. And if he whiffs he’s dead.

I think LK is a strong character, but this level of hyperbole is bordering on ridiculous. There’s a difference between having a great normal or string and actually breaking neutral.

Show me the Liu Kang who cannot play neutral but is still doing well against good players.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
@BRAZILIAN SHEEP

Ok, lets have a chat. What's neutral & off the top of your head what breaks neutral in MK11?

Generally curious on your statement & just want to know, no bullshit from my side.
 
Hi Crimsomshadow / Shaolin,

Answering you both:

1 - I did not say, and Im not saying that f4 breaks neutral. F4 is an example of (in my opinion) how risk / reward is not well thought in the game, and how free it is for some characters to, in this case for example, jail you into something automatic.
Listen, my justification to say that the game is not good regarding fairness, competition, is not LK F4. Is the whole game. I just used F4 as an example, because I use liu kang (im not complaining only about chars that I figjt against) and I know that he is Fucked up. But ok...lets talk about F4.
In my opinion is related to risk / reward. For a character to have that kind of pressure that jails you in a braindead way like him, it should be way difficult for him to get near you, and, in long / mid distance he should have some trouble to get in, because once he gets in, you are in trouble. Ooor....He should have great zoning (as he has), and a decent midle distance game (as he has...is not bad...specially with the fatal blow active), but his pressure should be nerfed in this case. Do you get that? Is the relation of risk / reward that is fucked up.
And see....you said that lk has to be gooood at neutral to get in, but that is not the case. You have soooo many tools, like, an amazing zoning (you dont even need to get in in certain matchups), parry, a flying kick that gives you a free crushing blow out of nothing with the speed of light, free crushing blows everywhere (Man, I did not even count how many times his CBs saved my life. Was me that was good? Not at all....is free shit from the game, that kitana lacks for ex), and sooo sooo on.

Do you wanna see real neutral? Type "alex valle x daigo umehara 2010", that is neutral. What liu kang does in MK11 is some low percentage neutral, but not even close what is considered to be neutral.
And this argumentation that "there is no ramdom player winning", this is a falacy. There will be always people with better reflexes and understanding of the games bullshit and use the bullshit in their favor (thats sonic fox and ninjakilla, for ex), but the game is still a guess fest. Pick marvel vs capcom 2, a game that is broken as shit, but there were still consistent players there. One thing is not related to the other.

2 - In my view, neutral is literally "neutral". Round 1....fight! Right....so...the players are in neutral and in a equal position, trying to let the opponent in a difficult situation and win the match. This envolves footsies, spacing, reads, reactions, knowledge, experience, mental training, focus....
Again, type "alex valle x daigo umehara 2010 stret fighter 4", that is what I call a neutral game.

Now, after watching that, look at errons black F4 safe on block and still having a chance to make.mistakes once....twice...5 times (exagerating here, but you know what Im saying, right).
Look at geras low sand, look at geras low risk high reward and being a button presser. Look at cetrion. Everything about her. Look at jaqui brigs. Look at how jaxs game is really....really dumb. It is dumb. Subzero online (even sonic fox said that he does not play sub online). Look at sonic fox tiers list having 10 characters as S tier, and the way talks is explicitly saying "this is bullshit"...."this is not fair".

Im not claiming that the game should be 100% fair and neutral, but man....just look at the game. It is gorgeous, beautiful, fun, amazing....but competitively is just...not.
 
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CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
MK11 is ok competitively? MK is not....for casuals????

Statements like that reinforce what I know about this forum: It is filled with casual players that pretend to know what neutral is, how risk / reward works in a FG, frame data consistency, footsies....I mean....if you play the game, you see it that a lot moves and mechanics breaks neutral.

It is sad because you see that foundation is there. Play raiden vs noob dor example....you have footsies there and the bullshit is tolerable. But man....look at liu kang for ex (im a liu kang player)...50/50s are not only overheads and lows in this game. You really have to choose if you wanna die by grabs or by f4. It is just one example....

They sold the game with the mask of being neutral based....and people who play fighting games know that is not true, but the casual will defend his favorite game until the end of times...
I have placed in tournaments before. I'm far from a causal and I'm good friends with Perfect Legend. I am not Soncifox but I'm pretty decent at fighters. LOL!