A Trip Down Memory Lane with NRS Games and its Balance

Discussion in 'Fighting Philosophy' started by xKhaoTik, Aug 17, 2017.

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  1. Shaka

    Shaka Tier Whore.

    Then go post MK drama shit on the mk forums.
     
    #26
    neveradestroyer likes this.
  2. RNLDRGN

    RNLDRGN RONALD ROGAN

    Who on earth is putting Green Arrow or Starfire top 5?

    Also I would agree with you except for Swamp Thing. He is legit the only character in this game that I think is complete doodoo tier. Call me a downplayer but he has some really rough MUs that will forever keep him out of Top 8s aside from a rare counterpick vs a couple of rushdown characters.

    That said, I think the reason Injustice 2 feels more balanced is because of the mechanics, not the characters. It's NRS and the characters are still Injustice: Gimmicks Among Us. MB roll, MB escape, along with the traditional clash and pushblock give a lot of defensive options though and it's great to have.

    I still think the game will need another balance patch or two, but definitely not anytime soon and not anything too dramatic.
     
    #27
  3. xKhaoTik

    xKhaoTik Black StarPoison

    What's wrong with that?
     
    #28
  4. trufenix

    trufenix www.youtube.com/thetrufenix

    Steam:
    trufenix
    Think that through logically, how could one character have a weakness exploited equally by every character in the game? What if its zoning, should every single character have zoning capabilities to "balance" that one matchup?
     
    #29
    Marinjuana likes this.
  5. Dankster Morgan

    Dankster Morgan Don't let your memes be dreams

    I don't see Green Arrow as a top 5 character but he's super legit and I could see people thinking that
     
    #30
    Ride the Sand Worm likes this.
  6. Wigy

    Wigy There it is...

    I think this games bad matchups look worse because of how slow it is. Players can more comfortably abuse the things that make the MU bad.
     
    #31
  7. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer
    Administrator

    I'm not going to say Starfire is Top 5 (it's too early to know). But I can tell you why the people who are saying she is think she is:

    Very good damage (off a variety of different/easy hitconfirms), good zoning, good wakeup, very good space control, good AA/control of the airspace, decent mobility, good f3, and a variety of useful tools for different situations.
     
    #32
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
    RNLDRGN likes this.
  8. RNLDRGN

    RNLDRGN RONALD ROGAN

    Starfire seems to early to call and I haven't seen really anyone say that about GA. Not saying it's untrue, just not something I see myself right now or have seen many ppl discuss. Hard to put them above Bats, Supes, BA and a few others. I'm open to it, just the first I've ever heard anyone consider them top tier.
     
    #33
  9. I never played mk9, but from the NRS games I played this is the closest thing to a 10-0 ive seen.
     
    #34
  10. I love the balance in this game, I think it's pretty amazing. The thing I love most about this game is the there are so many characters that feel unique to one another. I think it may have to do with having these traits that set characters apart from one another. There are also so many viable archetypes. It didn't feel that way to me in MKX.
     
    #35
    Shaka likes this.
  11. SneakyTortoise

    SneakyTortoise Official Master of Salt
    Director of Content

    #36
    Eldriken likes this.
  12. xKhaoTik

    xKhaoTik Black StarPoison

    Beat him to it lol
     
    #37
    Eldriken and SneakyTortoise like this.
  13. yes but there are a lot of MUs in this game where its near impossible for the characters to win. I feel that the winner of the match should always be the better player and not dependent on which characters were picked. I thought thats what balance was.

    You say they're probably incredibly strong not they are. Just because a character doesnt have any terrible MUs it doesnt mean they are instantly good which here you admit to. This means that making every character easily counter pickable isnt necessary for balance.
     
    #38
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  14. Perhaps you should think through that logically. I said what I said and I meant it. Characters shouldnt have a their only exploitable weakness be zoning because not all characters have zoning (so the weakness shouldnt exist). That means if youre not using a character that can zone your opponent has no weakness. And if your weakness is not zoning and that character can attack your weakness youre at a significant disadvantage (not balance).

    Weaknesses that every character can benefit from exist all over the place. Gaps in strings, highs, low damage, unsafe, bad specials, etc.
    Dont get me wrong here, there can be bad MUs but they are not the best way to balance and definitely not to the extent where characters stand no chance.
     
    #39
  15. EMPRESS_SunFire

    EMPRESS_SunFire Regina George of discord

    PSN:
    SunFire-xo
    What MUs does Green Arrow lose?
    The top 5 right now sofar seems to be something like Catwoman/Batman/Darkseid/Deadshot/Scarecrow/Red Hood/Starfire/Green Arrow/Supergirl

    People say Arrow and Supergirl aren't top 5 material but what really matter are match-ups. All those characters lose around 2-5 MUs... so if you can name 6 bad MUs for Arrow please do!
     
    #40
  16. Dankster Morgan

    Dankster Morgan Don't let your memes be dreams

    I think top 5 NPO is Deadshot, Darkseid, Batman, Superman, Catwoman.

    Red Hood, Scarecrow, Starfire(probably), Green Arrow are right up there too.

    Black Adam, Canary, Fate, Atrocitus, Supergirl, Harley, and Green Lantern kick ass too.

    Flash, Firestorm, Blue Beetle, Cheetah, and Bane RIGHT behind those characters

    Robin, Aquaman, Cold, Brainic, Cyborg, Ivy are pretty good too

    Only real outliers on the low side to me are Joker, Swamp Thing, Grodd, and maybe Sub. Sub is fuckin weird, idk. I don't think he's really all that good but he has uses.
     
    #41
  17. Eric The Scruffy

    Eric The Scruffy Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    Its probably impossible for a game with a 30+ character roster to be balanced in the way you want. The nature of asymetrical design means some characters are just going to wind up having tools that counter other characters the more you introduce.

    Now to be clear, things are going to change as people grind things out and new tech is discovered, but at the time of my posting here the meta shows a pretty solid amount of balance to me in that there are some rough matchups here and there but no character that straight up dominates the entire meta and generally every character seems like they can win a tournament with the right path. That's good enough for me.

    Even super turbo has 7-3 matchups....arguably worse.


    All that being said: Not to burst anyone's bubble....but I remember we thought the same thing about Injustice 1 when 1.06 dropped. Remember, sonic fox's bat girl wasn't even making top 8 at that time and Theo hadn't fully made the switch to aquaman yet.

    Don't be surprised if this time next year we find a dark horse in this game who screws it all up.
     
    #42
  18. dribirut

    dribirut BLAK FELOW

    Imo people highly exagerrate how much more balanced the games have gotten.. I know that's an unpopular opinion but oh well..

    To me mk9 was a very simple patch with minimal fixes from being just as balanced as i2
     
    #43
  19. Eric The Scruffy

    Eric The Scruffy Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    It always seems like its just one patch away is the problem. Injustice 1 was the same way.
     
    #44
    Shaka likes this.
  20. Shaka

    Shaka Tier Whore.

    It wasn't 10-0.

    Also Kenshi/Kabal/Lao vs Sheeva.
     
    #45
  21. xKhaoTik

    xKhaoTik Black StarPoison

    I think Kitana did better than any of them vs sheeva lol

    That MU was horrendous.
     
    #46
  22. I said the closest thing to a 10-0 I've seen.
     
    #47
  23. Dankster Morgan

    Dankster Morgan Don't let your memes be dreams

    I mean the worst possible matchups have gotten way more winnable.

    MK9: Kenshi vs Jade, no chance

    IGAU: Zod vs Lex, no chance

    MKX: Sub-Zero vs Jax, virtually no chance, but you kinda sorta maybe if the sky is blue and the grass is green and if the Sub-Zero is an idiot and the Jax is Obi-Wan Kenobi, then possibly

    I2: Batman vs Cheetah?, Deadshot vs Fate?, top tier vs Joker? I don't even know the worst matchup, but they're way more manageable than those games.

    Great job NRS, I can't wait for the future of I2 and MK 11.
     
    #48
    ShepherdOfFire likes this.
  24. ForeverKing

    ForeverKing WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB!!!
    Premium Supporter

    Haha when I won a tournament with Goro. Good times
     
    #49
  25. What was the P1 advantage thing on MK9 ? I started playing MK9 a few months after the release of IGAU but I started to play more seriously FGs at MKX's release, so i didn't pay attention to these details.

    I think that the current patch of MKX is the most balanced version of NRS games at the moment. Injustice 2 is still a recent game so there's still work to do, but NRS is doing it the right way. However, I2 is still the most balanced NRS game at release.
     
    #50

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