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A Poll and a Plea: Make Stance Switch Great for the First Time Ever

Do you want this mechanic in future NRS games?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 50.0%
  • No (Please give a reason in the comments)

    Votes: 22 50.0%

  • Total voters
    44
Stance Switch: Can't live with it, can't play an NRS game without it. People have asked for 3 games now for it to be removed or replaced, but the simplest change could make it possibly the hypest mechanic in Injustice 2 that could add a whole new layer of depth to the game. It's been suggested before but it's never had its own campaign, and that's giving it invincibility frames on start up; the number of which should be between 6 and 8 out of about 14 total frames for a good reason. Only the top half of the hitbox should be invincible though, that way it wouldn't be invincible to lows or d1s.

One of the most loved mechanics in any fighting game is SF3's parry because it offered a very high reward but only while requiring such a huge amount of skill with SO much risk involved that it could only be used very seldomly for VERY hype, VERY clutch plays usually. Stance switch evasion could take advantage of that same principle and potentially bring over a plethora of SF players to Injustice since parry has never returned since SF3.

They wouldn't function the same way though because Injustice has strings and parrying in SF3 completely canceled the opponent's attack. To make use of stance switch evasion for a whiff punish you would have to evade multiple hits in a string or special by stance switching multiple times with a very strict window of execution for each hit. The window for parrying successfully in SF3 was within 6-10 frames of the first active frame of an attack, but since it canceled an opponent's attack instead of evading it, you didn't have to take active frames into account. With stance switch, the first 2 frames of an attack might whiff but the last 2 might hit because your 6-8 invincibility frames ran out.

Because of this, stance switch evasion would require an even STRICTER window of precision than the 6 frame window of SF3 and would be just as unsafe. However, since Injustice has strings, you could also use stance switch evasion on reaction to an advancing string if the first hit of the string whiffs while the second hit is within blocking range, which would make it easier to time and would help balance out amazing mid strings like Superman's f23 and Atrocitus' 4 hit advancing string without having to make them highs. A Superman player would be forced to space his f23 more conservatively so the first hit would be less likely to whiff due to a well timed stance switch on reaction, or he might choose to do f2 into breath or trait instead of f23 into the same so he wouldn't get evaded and punished, which would create another layer of mind games in the neutral.

Conclusion
The last use it would have would be avoiding chip damage in otherwise guranteed death situations. A player might throw a mid projectile to chip you out and your last hope would be perfectly timing your stance switch to go through it and possibly make a comeback. This would bring SO much more hype, skill and nuance to the game that I could only imagine it being a positive. And if you like this idea, also consider the idea of d3s having 3 invincibility frames on start up. It would be a counter to all attacks including lows but you would have more recovery, a smaller execution window and you'd only get a 7% punish instead of a combo.
 
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Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
And if you like this idea, also consider the idea of d3s having 3 invincibility frames on start up. It would be an invincible counter to all attacks including lows but you would have more recovery, a smaller execution window and you'd only get a 7% punish instead of a combo.
And you were doing so well! Honestly, after the Spiderman DLC thread this is at least creative solution but I just don't see where it would be necessary. We already have so many defensive measures in the game currently that even with your proposed high execution high reward one what reason would I have for using it when I can do any of the other easier options.

I don't think we need a big mechanic out of the button and changing it to a simple taunt button would be 10x better than a stance switch. Bare in mind it could become useful as a frame kill once explored with some characters making it have a use, on top of the delay wakeup.
 

STORMS

Co-founder
Founder
Premium Supporter
Oops forgot to add the poll lol. If you want this in the game like the above post. If you don't want it, like this post instead and give a reason why.
If needed, let me know what Poll options you want and I can add them.
 
And you were doing so well! Honestly, after the Spiderman DLC thread this is at least creative solution but I just don't see where it would be necessary. We already have so many defensive measures in the game currently that even with your proposed high execution high reward one what reason would I have for using it when I can do any of the other easier options.

I don't think we need a big mechanic out of the button and changing it to a simple taunt button would be 10x better than a stance switch. Bare in mind it could become useful as a frame kill once explored with some characters making it have a use, on top of the delay wakeup.
It would be very rare for sure just like SF3's parry, but its inclusion has huge hype and tech potential which is the main point. Stance switch likely has no chance of going away, but I'd say NRS would be open to the idea of giving it a use if enough people agreed on a single buff request.

Taunts requires more work for the animators and you might as well just teabag instead. As for d3s having invincibility frames, I'm not saying we don't have sufficient defense but d3s/MK b4s are rarely used currently with a few exceptions. 3 invincibility frames is practically nothing, it's just added depth with no risk of causing imbalance and makes sweeps more universally useful, so it seems like nothing but a good idea to me. But I doubt people will support it because it's too outside the box of an idea and makes little difference to most.
 
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GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Stance Switch: Can't live with it, can't play an NRS game without it. People have asked for 3 games now for it to be removed or replaced, but the simplest change could make it possibly the hypest mechanic in Injustice 2 that could add a whole new layer of depth to the game. It's been suggested before but it's never had its own campaign, and that's giving it invincibility frames on start up; the number of which should be between 7 and 9 out of about 14 total frames for a good reason. Only the top half of the hitbox should be invincible though, that way it wouldn't be invincible to lows or d1s.

One of the most loved mechanics in any fighting game is SF3's parry because it offered a very high reward but only while requiring such a HUGE amount of skill with SO much risk involved that it could only be used very seldomly for VERY hype, VERY clutch plays usually. Stance switch evasion could take advantage of that same principle and potentially bring over a plethora of SF players to Injustice since parry has never returned since SF3.

They wouldn't function the same way though because Injustice has strings and parrying in SF3 completely canceled the opponent's attack. To make use of stance switch evasion for a whiff punish you would have to evade multiple hits in a string or special by stance switching multiple times with a very strict window of execution for each hit. The window for parrying successfully in SF3 was within 6-10 frames of the first active frame of an attack, but since it canceled an opponent's attack instead of evading it, you didn't have to take active frames into account. With stance switch, the first 2 frames of an attack might whiff but the last 2 might hit because your 6-8 invincibility frames ran out.

Because of this, stance switch evasion would require an even STRICTER window of precision than the 6 frame window of SF3 and would be just as unsafe. However, since Injustice has strings, you could also use stance switch evasion on reaction to an advancing string if the first hit of the string whiffs while the second hit is within blocking range, which would make it easier to time and would help balance out amazing mid strings like Superman's f23 and Atrocitus' 4 hit advancing string without making them highs. A Superman player would be forced to space his f23 more conservatively so the first hit would be less likely to whiff due to a well time stance switch on reaction, or he might choose to do f2 into breath or trait instead of f23 into the same so he wouldn't get evaded, which would create another layer of mind games in the neutral.

Conclusion
The last use it would have would be avoiding chip damage in otherwise guranteed death situations. A player might throw a mid projectile to chip you out and your last hope would be perfectly timing your stance switch to go through it and possibly make a comeback. This would bring SO much more hype, skill and nuance to the game that I could only imagine it being a positive. And if you like this idea, also consider the idea of d3s having 3 invincibility frames on start up. It would be an invincible counter to all attacks including lows but you would have more recovery, a smaller execution window and you'd only get a 7% punish instead of a combo.
I like the idea but then we need to stop having 7f standing lows in the games.
 
No. It was traumatic enough back in mk9 and mkx too. Please make it a custom button instead so,You can do an ultra move or a trait instead by example, This button served for teabag and screw around bullshit.
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
3 invincibility frames is practically nothing, it's just added depth with no risk of causing imbalance and makes sweeps more universally useful, so it seems like nothing but a good idea to me. But I doubt people will support it because it's too outside the box of an idea and makes little difference to most.
This is major and I don't think you understand how good invincibility frames are . So now you've got to make every sweep unsafe right? otherwise I have a safe invincible reversal. But as a result, my Blue Beetle just got a bunch worse because I lost a really good footsie tool. It is not that it is even outside the box, you are simply just making a sweep a weird DP when the game doesn't need one. Sweeps from the beta characters have uses, and this is most likely to travel into the full game but you're idea would turn sweeps from a unique character tool to some universal special move.
 
This is major and I don't think you understand how good invincibility frames are . So now you've got to make every sweep unsafe right? otherwise I have a safe invincible reversal. But as a result, my Blue Beetle just got a bunch worse because I lost a really good footsie tool. It is not that it is even outside the box, you are simply just making a sweep a weird DP when the game doesn't need one. Sweeps from the beta characters have uses, and this is most likely to travel into the full game but you're idea would turn sweeps from a unique character tool to some universal special move.
3 frames really isn't significant because NRS normals according to MKX frame data tend to have 2-5 active frames. Even if your d3 starts on the very first active frame of your opponent's attack it would still get beat by the move if it has at least 4 active frames. If it connects that means your sweep hit first anyways so the invincibility makes no difference. If it were invincible during its active frames then I'd see your point, but invincibility is only on its first 3 startup frames, so no they wouldn't need to be unsafe imo. It would only be useful vs moves with 3 or fewer active frames and the timing would have to be absolutely perfect.
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
but invincibility is only on its first 3 startup frames, so no they wouldn't need to be unsafe imo.
So I am still going to throw it out like candy only it is going to trade not win, but I get a knockdown even though my opponent just spent bar to be plus. But if my sweep is now -15 to make up for this weird invincibility I know have a terrible sweep, but if its sweep I have a button with no thought behind it that I can throw out in every situation, meterless with no execution barrier other than me being awake at the stick.
 
So I am still going to throw it out like candy only it is going to trade not win, but I get a knockdown even though my opponent just spent bar to be plus. But if my sweep is now -15 to make up for this weird invincibility I know have a terrible sweep, but if its sweep I have a button with no thought behind it that I can throw out in every situation, meterless with no execution barrier other than me being awake at the stick.
No you couldn't throw it out like candy. If the opponent's attack has 4 active frame it doesn't trade, you get launched. If it had 3 active frames the d3 would hit, it wouldn't trade but it would have to be DEAD frame PERFECT, which means it would be based on a pure luck impossible read. D3s would literally stay the same as they are now with only a microscopic extra incentive to use them over d1s. And if you yolo mash it you could get whiff punished, lose your turn to get mixed, armored through and/or lose your chance to start your own mix up with a d1 on hit or block. In fact, 3 invincibility frames is so insignificant, especially compared to combo starting Injustice d1s, that 4 invincibility frames might actually be more logical. If you still disagree, I've used up all my defenses and I'd like to keep the focus on the main topic.
 

24K

Noob
I think when you are coming up with ideas to include in the game you need to consider high level players. And what I expect from high level players is frame perfect buttons. So a sweep would trade like @Undeadjim has stated. Parry's were thrown out all over the place. When you learn the timing you have learnt the timing. SF4 had one frame links that even mid level players were never seen dropping. It just becomes the way the game is played and players pick up on the timing subconsciously and it will be used non stop to trade out against some invincible animation of a character turning around.

I kind of like stance switch. I use it all the time. If I want to see some boobies, I can see some boobies. If I want to see some bum, I can see some bum. It really doesn't have to have any relevance to anything other than T and A.

Just consider the reason its there. If it wasn't, there would be a button that doesn't do anything at all when its pressed. A taunt would be a more useful button, but I would still rather tea bag because it's more irritating than somebody using a taunt button. Taunt buttons have never been done well. Some games have used them to build meter. But using them slows the action down. Tea bags are fast. And its all about my balls and your face. Think about it. My balls..... Your face.
 

24K

Noob
Plinking indeed. Not necessary though. But the frame was hit nevertheless. What would stop people plinking in this situation.