[A MESSAGE FROM EVO STAFF] EVO 2016 MKXL - PLAYER SEEDING, WHO SHOULD THE TOP SEEDS BE?

[Pig Of The Hut]

how unpractical would it be a round robin then top16 double elimination?

Uh what

 

[RM AtK!]

I think pools should be completely random.

I get that it might not be best for viewers as top players could eliminate each other early, but I feel that random pools is the only real fair way. It also allows a kind of organic system for a more varied and interesting pool of players. Moving a top player into each pool in a "even" way just ensures that they all qualify (mostly). There is something to be said for the chance for a unknown to have a easier path to top 32 and the confidence this brings and the attention, not to mention the freshness of the new face to the community, maybe even his character choice of what he plays. Manually futzing with the pools feels like interference to me in the natural order of free competition. The best players should theoretically still win, but the chance of a top player removing a top player can bring a spark of excitement to the event.

i've always thought this too imo, but a lot of people will murk you about seeds.

imo i 100% agree with that natural way of things, like if you're really the best you'll be winning and making it far no matter what. it shouldn't be free rides to eachother guarantee'd. The only part of seeding i do agree with is not having training partners that live next to eachother and play all the time be like first rounds and stuff. Lbsh who wants to send to losers or eliminate thier close friend irl whom you train with in top 500 pool

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

i've always thought this too imo, but a lot of people will murk you about seeds.

imo i 100% agree with that natural way of things, like if you're really the best you'll be winning and making it far no matter what. it shouldn't be free rides to eachother guarantee'd. The only part of seeding i do agree with is not having training partners that live next to eachother and play all the time be like first rounds and stuff. Lbsh who wants to send to losers or eliminate thier close friend irl whom you train with in top 500 pool

Not all are equal nor should be treated equal in the world of competitive gaming

This is "do it for the little man" logic that does not fly well w me and most

 

[colby4898]

Will the grandfinals still be bo3?

 

[RM AtK!]

Not all are equal nor should be treated equal in the world of competitive gaming

This is "do it for the little man" logic that does not fly well w me and most

by all means im not saying randoms should have noone to play til top 32 at all or all the time, but i'm saying in my own opinion (i understand you disagree which i totally understand and respect it) you should just play whoever you gotta play. Competition imo weeds out the good from the bad in the end. noone who didn't deserve it is going to win a tourney.

 

[HoneyBee]

The issue is SRK doesn't have certain tournaments for some people. Or they have people under 2 names. Like Pnut has 2 names. How would you feel if you they had you under Honeybee and cR honeybee. Both with Only some of your results. And when doing seeding they only look at the one with 2 results. Doesn't seem fair at all.

After looking over the SRK rankings, I retract my previous statement. It's not accurate.

It would be better to use Pig or KP or probably Indecisives upcoming list to determine seeding. I don't agree with every placing Pig, KP or other people used but it's still better than SRK.

 

[El_Rubio]

I think Killer Xinok is going to this EVO....


well... I´m not sure... xD

 

[shura30]

Uh what

take it ironically because I'm well aware on how unpractical and time consuming would a round robin on a one-day event would be
but there's really no way to fairly seed people with so many variables involved

random pools are a double edged sword but there's an ironic coin flip:

- boring top8
- fresh faces

 

[Indecisive]

After looking over the SRK rankings, I retract my previous statement. It's not accurate.

It would be better to use Pig or KP or probably Indecisives upcoming list to determine seeding. I don't agree with every placing Pig, KP or other people used but it's still better than SRK.

Making a Spreadsheet atm with amount of top 8's and such. Will include ESL results as well. Have 50 people atm. Will cut it down if they have no results. That should hopefully help me get a better top 32 list. the SRK list has KP at 28 with no offline top 8's but pnut not even in the top 50 with 3 offline top 8's. SRK decided to include locals randomly. So idk. its weird. Pls don't be mad KP i love you dude.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

After looking over the SRK rankings, I retract my previous statement. It's not accurate.

It would be better to use Pig or KP or probably Indecisives upcoming list to determine seeding. I don't agree with every placing Pig, KP or other people used but it's still better than SRK.

Yea as far as my list goes Id be super fine w anyone moving whoever around here and there

It's super hard to make a correct 1-32

Merge mine and KP lol

 

[CrimsonShadow]

by all means im not saying randoms should have noone to play til top 32 at all or all the time, but i'm saying in my own opinion (i understand you disagree which i totally understand and respect it) you should just play whoever you gotta play. Competition imo weeds out the good from the bad in the end. noone who didn't deserve it is going to win a tourney.

It sounds idealistic, but the problem is that this leads to very unbalanced tournaments, where the best players eliminate each other early on and the results don't truly reflect the strength of the field.

 

[Indecisive]

Just an update. I had to remove ESL weekly stuff since they don't have all the Euro results which is not fair. And sorting through to find all the top 8's is way too hard. Trying to cut 2 people. Kinda hard.

 

[x-azeez]

@nothingxs ^^ my list

But realistically, it should look like this:

1. Tekken Master
2. Tekken Master
3. Tekken Master
4. Tekken Master
5. Tekken Master
6. Tekken Master
7. Tekken Master
8. Tekken Master
9. Tekken Master
10. Tekken Master
11. Tekken Master
12. Tekken Master
13-30. Tekken Master

31. Sanic Foxes
32. Foxy GGGGG

there is a strong chance u might see Tekken Master there

 

[nothingxs]

The problem with SRK is that it's still coming down to an outsider's opinion of:
1) Which events should be seeded in the first place, and which should be left out
2) How many points should be assigned to each

This leads to wonky results random events that shouldn't be receiving near the weight they do, are suddenly worth a ton a points. And other similar events don't even appear in the rankings.

This is why we ask you!

But it's still better than asking people on the forums what they think.

Ideally you'd just take a list of majors from a specific, recent period of time (say the last 9 months) and seed people based on their performance. No extraneous events and nothing that involves the additional factor of how online connections are performing, latency etc (or at least less weighting for it, given the issues we've seen with reporting wins/losses, maintaining bracket integrity etc).

Placings from 1.5 years ago shouldn't factor into seeding for this year. Like CPT, it should be a season, blank slate at a year maximum -- as both the game itself changes, and the competition/meta as well.

Since SRK does show the points for each placing though, you could select the last 9 months of majors and add the points up. Would take 20 minutes and probably give more current/accurate results.

Well then, do that and suggest that as your method. If people feel that's a good method of ranking then we know you as a community heavily value that and will take that heavily into consideration before releasing our preliminary brackets. This is the kind of discussion we want to get going -- you clearly have ideas. Let's put them to work.

 

[Indecisive]

So ya heres the Document. Its not in any order. But i was able to cut it down from 50 to 33. Don't know who to cut last TBH. Hopefully this helps with people making their lists. It has Peoples Offline results. Might be off a bit. i'm not perfect. Tried making a list but cannot get past 16. Really hard. Enjoy
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yScd4rn97TBQxjvvpLKPGD6RG7SvuzHvYAVQiFbBpJM/edit?usp=sharing

Notes: i tried doing ESL Weekly Results But couldn't find an easy way to view the top 8's for every event.

I was then going to done winners only. But it only shows winners for season 1 of ESL Euro which is unfair to them so i cut it.
So i added ESL offline top 8. Just realized i missed some. Will update

Edit: Opps Try now.
EDIT: ITS NOT IN ANY ORDER

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So in order to really be fair (and with so much money on the line) we should bring our methods up to professional standard.

Let's treat it like a real sport, because it's becoming one (and there's a lot of money on the line).

That means the following things should go without saying:

1) No player who's playing in a tournament should have input into who they think should be seeded where. Lebron James doesn't get to make or influence the playoff rules while he's playing in the tournament. No sport works that way, for obvious reasons.

2) All methods should be clear, explicitly spelled out. No one should just be saying "Here's my list, in my opinion". It's "here are the specific events that are included, here's exactly how it was calculated". That way it's clear to everybody and not just "how I feel it should be".

3) Everyone should agree on a cutoff time period, where beyond that events don't count. Not a grey "recent stuff" but a solid time period, like 9 months/8 months/whatever. That way everyone knows the cutoff and there's no confusion.

4) We should use this approach at all majors -- not just EVO. A TO should never have to ask or invent their own method of determining the top seeds for MKX tournaments.

 

[emerc]

Just an update. I had to remove ESL weekly stuff since they don't have all the Euro results which is not fair. And sorting through to find all the top 8's is way too hard. Trying to cut 2 people. Kinda hard.

Here is Wk 8 for Europe: http://play.eslgaming.com/mortalkombat/europe/mortalkombatx-ps4/major/pro-league-season-3-week-8-europe/

Just change "week-#-europe/" in the URL for the desired week's bracket

EDIT: Likewise for NA: http://play.eslgaming.com/mortalkombat/north-america/mortalkombatx-ps4/major/pro-league-season-3-week-8-north-america/

Click Bracket, and collapse to Quarterfinals

 

[Indecisive]

Here is Wk 8 for Europe: http://play.eslgaming.com/mortalkombat/europe/mortalkombatx-ps4/major/pro-league-season-3-week-8-europe/

Just change "week-#-europe/" in the URL for the desired week's bracket

EDIT: Likewise for NA: http://play.eslgaming.com/mortalkombat/north-america/mortalkombatx-ps4/major/pro-league-season-3-week-8-north-america/

Click Bracket, and collapse to Quarterfinals

I would like to include Season 1 and Season 2. But the change doesn't work for seasons. :/

 

[HoneyBee]

So ya heres the Document. Its not in any order. But i was able to cut it down from 50 to 33. Don't know who to cut last TBH. Hopefully this helps with people making their lists. It has Peoples Offline results. Might be off a bit. i'm not perfect. Tried making a list but cannot get past 16. Really hard. Enjoy
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yScd4rn97TBQxjvvpLKPGD6RG7SvuzHvYAVQiFbBpJM/edit?usp=sharing

Notes: i tried doing ESL Weekly Results But couldn't find an easy way to view the top 8's for every event.

I was then going to done winners only. But it only shows winners for season 1 of ESL Euro which is unfair to them so i cut it.
So i added ESL offline top 8. Just realized i missed some. Will update

Edit: Opps Try now.

Is there a list of all the tournaments you included?

The problem with your list is you weigh every tournament equally which isn't accurate.

 

[Indecisive]

Is there a list of all the tournaments you included?

The problem with your list is you weigh every tournament equally which isn't accurate.

Nope. I looked at SRK tournaments to see what people did. And from my memory. If you want to make a weighting system fro every person and every tournament go for it dude.

 

[HoneyBee]

Nope. I looked at SRK tournaments to see what people did. And from my memory. If you want to make a weighting system fro every person and every tournament go for it dude.

I definitely don't want to do that cause it's just gonna be my opinion which not everyone will agree with. Which is the obvious variable preventing an accurate list. Every list made will have people that disagree.

I think your list is good for the most part.

 

[Indecisive]

I definitely don't want to do that cause it's just gonna be my opinion which not everyone will agree with. Which is the obvious variable preventing an accurate list. Every list made will have people that disagree.

I think your list is good for the most part.

The list was only to show how many top 8's/Wins people have gotten. And to cut out some people on the SRK list who haven't gotten 8's or haven't gotten as many, etc. etc. There is no order to the list i made except it was the TOP 50 SRK people. Which i cut down to 33 after adding Pnut. You guys can use it as a reference to make your own list. Which is what we need to do. Even if we don't agree on each others lists its good for input for tournaments to see each persons lists. So they can compare and as a TO's come to their own choice on how people get seeded. We all should make our own lists for the thread. I'm too indecisive to make 17-32. Hue Hue Hue.

 

[HoneyBee]

I think some people are putting too much weight into ESL btw. I don't think any online tournaments should count towards a ranking system (not to mention they're single elim).

For example, Toxin, while I love the guy, I feel he's being ranked really high by people solely because of ESL. He hasn't achieved any offline top 8s yet. Is he a strong contender? Definitely. Does he deserve a top seed? Probably not. In a list of 32 players it is surely possible but not in a top 10 or top 15.

Even just using ESL Finals top 16 is still not accurate. I think it's clear that competition in NA is stronger than anywhere else. The amount of people that could qualify for the tournament wasn't completely balanced from each region. We even had an extra 3 Europeans that went cause 3 Russians couldn't get visas.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

So ya heres the Document. Its not in any order. But i was able to cut it down from 50 to 33. Don't know who to cut last TBH. Hopefully this helps with people making their lists. It has Peoples Offline results. Might be off a bit. i'm not perfect. Tried making a list but cannot get past 16. Really hard. Enjoy
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yScd4rn97TBQxjvvpLKPGD6RG7SvuzHvYAVQiFbBpJM/edit?usp=sharing

Notes: i tried doing ESL Weekly Results But couldn't find an easy way to view the top 8's for every event.

I was then going to done winners only. But it only shows winners for season 1 of ESL Euro which is unfair to them so i cut it.
So i added ESL offline top 8. Just realized i missed some. Will update

Edit: Opps Try now.

I dig it

Mainly because in your list I'm 20 and in mine and KP I was 25

 

[Indecisive]

I dig it

Mainly because in your list I'm 20 and in mine and KP I was 25

Its not in any order