1232 as a punish or as a combo ender to set up oki

[Chernyy Volk]

I'll probably try to make a video showcasing this in action, but this seems really good. It's not a hard knockdown, but it puts Black Manta at a distance that he can meaty the fuck out of a lot of characters. I still need to do testing, but he seems to have a shit ton of answers to blow up certain characters in the post-knockdown of this string.

Example: 1232 as a punish or as a combo ender against Superman. Every single wakeup option besides backdashing or roll backdashing gets blown up by doing bf1 immediately after. Once the Superman has been conditioned to give up on trying to wake up, you can catch backdashes with f21 hit confirms.

Another example is against Red Hood as far as I can tell. You can blow up backward and forward lunge AND parry by doing bf2. It beats all three options every time.

Anyone else looked into this?

 

[KingHippo]

I like the idea, but as soon as I found out it was tech-rollable, I wasn't so sure People won't necessarily roll every time, but if they do you are left with very little hit advantage. I actually really like b12, as this is an actual splat hard knockdown right in front of Manta, at which point 2 will beat everything Superman can wakeup with besides backdash, as I feel is the case with a lot of characters.

From 2, you can go to 23 which can combo into Missile MB or flight, or 213 as a full safe string, or 21 xx MB bf1 to chip the hell out of someone while building a bunch of meter in the process

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I tested this with tech roll followed by backdash. If they realize that they have to start doing that, you can just micro walk f21 and it catches it.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Also I'm fairly certain you can sight react with bf2 either way.

 

[Invincible Salads]

wait, so your reacting to redhoods wake ups with bf2? is this in the corner only or midscreen?

also i thought supermans rising grab is fully invincible, how are you beating it with 2 on knockdown?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

wait, so your reacting to redhoods wake ups with bf2? is this in the corner only or midscreen?

also i thought supermans rising grab is fully invincible, how are you beating it with 2 on knockdown?

A: If you do bf2 as soon as humanly possible, it will beat lunge and parry both before their parry/invincibility frames even start.

B: No, Rising Grab will get sort of anti aired by an immediate bf1 after the knockdown every time. Superman has no choice but to backdash in this scenario.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Also yes, the bf2 meaty is midscreen or in the corner. Doesn't matter.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Hippo said 2 will beat all supermans wake ups, how? Also what if red hood wake up blocks?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Hippo said 2 will beat all supermans wake ups, how? Also what if red hood wake up blocks?

If you don't feel comfortable with the Red Hood option, you can simply jump forward and air harpoon gun either option I think.

I haven't tried what Hippo is suggesting, but I'm guessing it's a meaty where the first swing of 2 is happening before the opponent's even getting up off the ground.

 

[Invincible Salads]

If you don't feel comfortable with the Red Hood option, you can simply jump forward and air harpoon gun either option I think.

I haven't tried what Hippo is suggesting, but I'm guessing it's a meaty where the first swing of 2 is happening before the opponent's even getting up off the ground.

its just your not as far away as you are doing bf1 with manta, and rising grab is fully invincible so is there a sweetspot im not aware of where the wake up will whiff while manta does 2?

 

[Chernyy Volk]

its just your not as far away as you are doing bf1 with manta, and rising grab is fully invincible so is there a sweetspot im not aware of where the wake up will whiff while manta does 2?

Judging from the way the bf1 meaties it, the invincibility stops at the active frames of the move, which is pretty quick into it's startup. I dunno, I'll have to try his idea myself.

 

[Invincible Salads]

bf1 seems like the biggest anti wake up tool in the game.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

bf1 seems like the biggest anti wake up tool in the game.

It blows up or prevents a lot.

 

[KingHippo]

Here's a video showing the concept of 2 stuffing Superman' wakeups after b12 knockdown.