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I want to know the answer as well, want to pick him up - I feel like I see Stryker or Sub the most in KL, Sub doesn't seem super real though and I personally almost never get caught by the HTB setup. I'm starting to see some Cyrax as well since net just naturally combos from b3.

Its almost as if less than 24 hrs after a patch with some big nerfs / buffs is too soon for a tierlist

New strings and cancel options seem awesome, can't wait to dive into this character. More excited about him than Ermac tbh.

Does this actually work on people? Once I realized you could upblock this on reaction, I've probably punished any EX straight sai attempt 9/10 times at least. I don't think that's even close to a real option tbh.

Its so refreshing to hear people not completely downplay sub.

From your video, looks like this isn't a true combo though? Will be definitely hard for them to block but it looks like the combo drops and they're able to block again after the first f4/21.

Kenshi is in big trouble if pushblock is implemented AND it downs sento - but I actually think Kenshi will not be effected at all if pushblock only pushes Kenshi himself, and that's it.

The dunning kruger is strong with this one

Has anyone messed around with Motaro turret tick throw setups? Seems like there's a lot of unexplored potential. I know you can launch with a command grab in the corner using something like d+kameo, f24 tick throw df2

Felt like this move deserves its own thread. What are the main ways people are setting this up, and what sequences do you use? IMO this tool is really strong and generally underutilized, considering Geras has a totally different bar economy than any other character. Main setups I've seen are...

People think he's low because they literally collected quantitative evidence that supports that claim.

But why do you think that, other than you struggling against him online? What specific Smoke MUs do you disagree with? Sounds like there's a lot of you think he should suddenly be in S/S+ tier.

What you're forgetting is that the two Smoke players (who are pretty reputably amazing players btw) are not the only ones contributing to the smoke numbers. A MU number has to be agreed upon by both sets of character representatives, so this isn't a situation where the Smoke players are...

I completely agree, which is why I said its as close to an objective list as possible. The only way to make it better would be use and even larger number of high level players playing an even larger number of sets to get higher and higher statistical significance, which just becomes too hard...

This is as close to an objective tier list that we'll get for the current state of the game. Its hilarious when people are met with the truth and outright reject it when it doesn't match their emotional reality. Pretty sure was made considering each character using the kameo that will best...

I can't even tell what you're trying to say here to be honest - but looking at toolkits in a vacuum / out of context of a MU is a waste of time. Without getting into too much detail since I doubt I'll convince you, Scorpion lames Kenshi out really well, especially with Khameleon or Stryker...

I mean, its not like the MU numbers are a Kenshi player agenda - the whole point of the list is that every group of players on either side of the MU agrees with each MU number, so the Scorp players agree with the Kenshi players that Scorp wins. I play both Kenshi and Scorp, and I also agree that...

Which MUs do you disagree with?

This list and methodology is awesome. I've been really tired of recent tier list discussions where people just discuss "tools" and not matchups, and consistently list characters like Tanya way too low. I've been very confident that Kenshi was also being grossly overrated by many for a while now...

This is the kind of stuff we need, crazy it took this long for someone to put out this data