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Echo Fox Sonic Fox Wins VGA's Esports Player of the Year

Because I didn't get to meme in here yet.
sure this kind of threads are always funny as fuck. it's just that at some point it starts to get embarrassing.

if you were a tym moderator, what would you do in this situation? this is a legit question so dont troll me with your answer.
 

MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
Leonardo DiCaprio made a speech about global warming at his acceptance. There's nothing wrong with using your platform to promote something you believe it. If Sonic Fox feels that his identity is a big part of his journey, that's his place to say so.
Global warming is my identity also
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
When it comes to most of the important things I lean left, but on other things I lean right. Idk why THAT is such a hard concept to understand.
It's not a hard concept to understand, but 9/10 when people say this, what they mean is they're all for education and healthcare reform, maybe gun control, but scoff at "Identify Politics," which is a huge red flag to a lot of people that they aren't really an ally, then. I'm not saying that's you, specifically, but it's what most folks who have the same rhetoric say.

What has been branded as mere "identity politics" are actually immense struggles against systemic racism and oppression from the government, yet always get laughed at as some sort of elitist, overprivileged nonsense. If you (the royal you) find yourself believing in the former and not the latter, I would think any person who is for Left-style politics would rightfully condemn you as not much of an ally.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
It's not a hard concept to understand, but 9/10 when people say this, what they mean is they're all for education and healthcare reform, maybe gun control, but scoff at "Identify Politics," which is a huge red flag to a lot of people that they aren't really an ally, then. I'm not saying that's you, specifically, but it's what most folks who have the same rhetoric say.

What has been branded as mere "identity politics" are actually immense struggles against systemic racism and oppression from the government, yet always get laughed at as some sort of elitist, overprivileged nonsense. If you (the royal you) find yourself believing in the former and not the latter, I would think any person who is for Left-style politics would rightfully condemn you as not much of an ally.
For me, I was all in on the left. Never talked about identity politics or anything. I just kept being told I was the problem because I was white. That’s literally it. I’m white so I’m the problem. Any attempts to argue that I was labeled everything you could imagine. Then people would say that not only am I more privileged than they are because of the color of my skin, but that skin color was the most important factor in determining privilege. That is demonstrably false. Again, when I argued that, I was dismissed and called everything you could imagine.

I saw mobs of my people, liberals, wanting to keep certain speakers from speaking. I wasn’t aware of who the people were that they wanted to censor, and what they could be saying that was so bad that they shouldn’t be allowed to say it. So I looked into them. I disagreed with most of what they were saying, but never felt it deserved to be censored. This kept happening. Many different republican speakers were protested. Which isn’t a problem at all. Protests are an essential right of an American. But they weren’t protesting to offer the other side of the argument, they were protesting to literally censor the opposition because they disagreed with them. Then started labeling it hate speech when it was convenient to do so.

Even being loyal to the left, that raised the eyebrows. It didn’t make any rational sense. It’s the exact same thing when it comes to religion. A lot of religious people want to censor anyone who disagrees with them (or questions them or their beliefs), have for centuries (in way more extremes). Censorship isn’t the answer unless it’s obviously the answer. You should want the opposition to speak. Let them make a fool out of themselves and you can be the voice of reason.

Anyway, again, just some examples. Back then I felt the same way as you do, as most liberals do. It’s actually wild to think about now. If someone told me I would be sitting more in the middle than on the left, I would have said they were insane. At the time I would not have seen how that was even remotely possible.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
You should want the opposition to speak. Let them make a fool out of themselves and you can be the voice of reason.
Cool, I'll believe that when any history shows that solely being 'the voice of reason' has ever done anything to stop racial/sexual violence or bigotry. Look at who's the president!

But they weren’t protesting to offer the other side of the argument, they were protesting to literally censor the opposition because they disagreed with them. Then started labeling it hate speech when it was convenient to do so.
I think this is the most frustrating part. As I said above, no history has shown that regressive views shouted loudly and in public have ever been the first step in bringing those views back around. There is no more limp-dicked institution in the world of Academia than "debate." When you look at the speakers most often protested, it's usually because they either willingly associate with people who construe the talking points or symbols of the openly hateful alt-right, or their own views are insanely odious (misogyny, eugenics, racism, classism, lgbt bigotry, etc.)

To "disagree" with these pricks often means that you are a firm believer in the non-dehumanization of marginalized groups, which doesn't have to be said, hence no one does it. That's all without talking about the freedom of speech hurt most by having odious groups have a platform, which is that of the marginalized whom these guys don't like. If you're a wealthy asshole who makes their money off of doing speech tours where you throw hate on marginalized groups, you really have to wonder who's the oppressed one, here.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Cool, I'll believe that when any history shows that solely being 'the voice of reason' has ever done anything to stop racial/sexual violence or bigotry. Look at who's the president!




I think this is the most frustrating part. As I said above, no history has shown that regressive views shouted loudly and in public have ever been the first step in bringing those views back around. There is no more limp-dicked institution in the world of Academia than "debate." When you look at the speakers most often protested, it's usually because they either willingly associate with people who construe the talking points or symbols of the openly hateful alt-right, or their own views are insanely odious (misogyny, eugenics, racism, classism, lgbt bigotry, etc.)

To "disagree" with these pricks often means that you are a firm believer in the non-dehumanization of marginalized groups, which doesn't have to be said, hence no one does it. That's all without talking about the freedom of speech hurt most by having odious groups have a platform, which is that of the marginalized whom these guys don't like. If you're a wealthy asshole who makes their money off of doing speech tours where you throw hate on marginalized groups, you really have to wonder who's the oppressed one, here.
All I’m saying is that shouting the opposition down and/or not allowing them to speak is clearly not the answer. You will never get through to them that way, it creates even more division. And also, when has censorship ever been a good solution?

Usually it’s “oh, he/she is saying things I don’t like, therefore they shouldn’t be allowed to say them”. As long as what someone is saying isn’t against the law, aka threats, inciting violence, etc, they should be allowed to say it. Doesn’t matter how stupid or even hateful it is. That doesn’t mean you should be okay with it. Absolutely not, no one should be okay with hate speech or anything like that. But actual hate speech, not calling things that aren’t hate speech hate speech. BUT, not being okay with it doesn’t mean it should be censored. The reason to me is for that very reason. You can justify anything as “hate speech” if you try hard enough. It’s an incredibly dangerous road especially when terms these days are often modified to fit peoples narratives.

Anyway, aside from the obvious, we probably agree on more things than you think. And aside from the gif usage, thanks for actually discussing this with me instead of asking for the thread to be closed. Every platform I try to discuss politics on people tell me “this isn’t the platform for that”. Admittedly TYM probably isn’t the best platform, but it’s nice being able to actually discuss this, and with someone who is smarter than me.

I could keep going but I have a bunch more characters to unlock in smash, lol. If you respond I’ll read it when I get a chance.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
All I’m saying is that shouting the opposition down and/or not allowing them to speak is clearly not the answer. You will never get through to them that way, it creates even more division. And also, when has censorship ever been a good solution?
Who wants or cares to "get through" to these people? The guys ginning up controversy by crying censorship are in it for the green. The "Say horrible things and cry censorship" racket pays like crazy, these aren't honest actors looking for a good faith debate. It's exactly because they're bad faith actors that so many people are against them just whipping up fervor; there's nothing to be gained unless you are super into it, which is bad!

It also clearly works, btw. Milo Yiannapoulous is completely deplatformed and going broke, Gavin McInnes has pretty much gone underground, and Info Wars is on the outs. All bad actors who just encourage violent rhetoric and action. Who cares if they can't get paid to say and do stupid shit? Good riddance.

Usually it’s “oh, he/she is saying things I don’t like, therefore they shouldn’t be allowed to say them”.As long as what someone is saying isn’t against the law, aka threats, inciting violence, etc, they should be allowed to say it.
You do realize that guys like Milo were threatening to out illegal immigrants and Ben Shapiro is just blatantly spouting false facts about trans folks, right? Or that Jordan Peterson thinks trans activists are no different than homicidal communists? If these guys just had bad takes it would be one thing, but they were and are inciting hateful bullshit based on nothing. That goes beyond "I don't like this," frankly.

Doesn’t matter how stupid or even hateful it is. That doesn’t mean you should be okay with it. Absolutely not, no one should be okay with hate speech or anything like that. But actual hate speech, not calling things that aren’t hate speech hate speech. BUT, not being okay with it doesn’t mean it should be censored. The reason to me is for that very reason. You can justify anything as “hate speech” if you try hard enough. It’s an incredibly dangerous road especially when terms these days are often modified to fit peoples narratives.
Well, considering the amount of reported anti semitic and anti-Latinx based hate crimes are up, perhaps it's time we look at all those guys getting a ton of attention to talk about Soros-funded "Globalist" conspiracies and anti-immigrant fervor as being a reason why that's happening. Everyone says we have to stop being so divisive, but the only people getting killed are Leftist protesters, PoC, and people of Jewish faith, pretty much exclusively by crazy white people with guns. At what point do we, as fellow human-beings, stand up and tell these people to go fuck themselves?

Anyway, aside from the obvious, we probably agree on more things than you think. And aside from the gif usage, thanks for actually discussing this with me instead of asking for the thread to be closed. Every platform I try to discuss politics on people tell me “this isn’t the platform for that”. Admittedly TYM probably isn’t the best platform, but it’s nice being able to actually discuss this, and with someone who is smarter than me.
Considering you're on Twitter making fun of trigger warnings, no, I actually don't think we'd agree on much. I would never want this thread to be closed, it's always fun to see Dr. Schultz waltz in and be an idiot.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Who wants or cares to "get through" to these people? The guys ginning up controversy by crying censorship are in it for the green. The "Say horrible things and cry censorship" racket pays like crazy, these aren't honest actors looking for a good faith debate. It's exactly because they're bad faith actors that so many people are against them just whipping up fervor; there's nothing to be gained unless you are super into it, which is bad!

It also clearly works, btw. Milo Yiannapoulous is completely deplatformed and going broke, Gavin McInnes has pretty much gone underground, and Info Wars is on the outs. All bad actors who just encourage violent rhetoric and action. Who cares if they can't get paid to say and do stupid shit? Good riddance.



You do realize that guys like Milo were threatening to out illegal immigrants and Ben Shapiro is just blatantly spouting false facts about trans folks, right? Or that Jordan Peterson thinks trans activists are no different than homicidal communists? If these guys just had bad takes it would be one thing, but they were and are inciting hateful bullshit based on nothing. That goes beyond "I don't like this," frankly.



Well, considering the amount of reported anti semitic and anti-Latinx based hate crimes are up, perhaps it's time we look at all those guys getting a ton of attention to talk about Soros-funded "Globalist" conspiracies and anti-immigrant fervor as being a reason why that's happening. Everyone says we have to stop being so divisive, but the only people getting killed are Leftist protesters, PoC, and people of Jewish faith, pretty much exclusively by crazy white people with guns. At what point do we, as fellow human-beings, stand up and tell these people to go fuck themselves?



Considering you're on Twitter making fun of trigger warnings, no, I actually don't think we'd agree on much. I would never want this thread to be closed, it's always fun to see Dr. Schultz waltz in and be an idiot.
That’s because trigger warnings don’t actually help, at all. I honestly thought that fad faded once people realized that. Hence why I was surprised they were still a prevalent topic (it came up in response to one of Philip deFranco’s videos, who you probably also hate, idk). I researched it awhile back but can’t remember everything specifically that I researched, so I’ll have to take a look back at it. But I know not only first hand that they do not work, the evidence doesn’t back up them working either.
 

AbeW

Noob
If grabbing them by the pussy is the only thing you know about his stance on women then that should be enough.. if you can’t see the inherent racism in his immigration policies/travel bans on Muslims, then I don’t know what to tell you... if denying visas to same sex partners of diplomats, lgbtq content immediately being removed from the white house website etc etc the list goes on forever
Obama = NeoCon Warmonger (Genocide in Libya, Syria, etc)
Obama = Deporter in Chief (More illegal immigrants deported than any of his predecessors)
Obama = Bought and paid for by the insurance lobbies. No price cap on insurance prices, didn't give you the public option but forced you to buy insurance at sky high prices and deductibles. Insurance companies made their money. Don't EVER think medicare for all was Obammy's plan.

Atleast, Donnie Trump (for the ill-mannered nasty grunt that he is) pulled the troops outta Syria and is trying to end the genocide there. All his playboy crap (py grabbing) was from his life as a private citizen. Well, he's a billionaire, ya don't think women like Goldigger Melania throw themselves at him for a few billion reasons? Maybe he's racist towards blacks. But, if you tell me Blacks are saints who are not capable of racism and are not racist towards whites, you are wrong. There are racist elements in every race. There is no indication that he's against gays. Border security will always be an issue until the neocon policies that turned Central America into hell on earth changes. People will continue to flee. I am no fan of Donnie and want him out in 2020. But, if you don't vote a progressive like Bernie or Liz Warren and end up with a neocon warmonger like Obama, nothing changes.
 
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