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Is Injustice 2 REALLY a spamming fest? Podcast discussion.

Skedar70

Skedar70

Noob
I think zoning lovers are confusing this argument. The argument isn't about "zoning is broken and dominates competition" The argument is inj 2 in general is full of zoning. Yes it is just go online and you can see this constantly. As I mentioned before the gameplan of inj 2 is "Does my character outzone yours? Yes... walk back and zone". The majority of the game is played casually and follows this plan.

People say TYM is toxic but what I saw was M2dave running to his "elite top player buddies" like if their opinions mean truth trying to defend or deny that zoning actually is the dominant play style in inj 2 and then bashing on crimson shadow calling him "fool of the week".

Now Crimson Shadow says "This doesn't mean that the zoning is actually the dominant playstyle in Injustice 2.". I completely disagree with this. Its not dominant in the sense that its the way to win but it is dominant in the sense that everybody or at least the majority of people who play the game are doing it. As I and someone else here mentioned I have spent the majority of my time in inj 2 getting in dodging bullets, bombs, lasers, fireballs, energy blasts, thunders etc. Even in tournaments I see zoning constantly lets not pretend like the best players don't zone. Yes Inj 2 is plagued by zoning lets accept the truth and dodge all those projectiles or quit the game.

Oh, and don't give me shit about Mikeys 50/50 rushdown mixes. I fight 1 mikey for every 30 characters that try to zone me out and even when I do he freaking tries to zone me with his skateboard (WTF?)
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Gooberking said:
If there is a spot later where specific posts were read and debated, I will consider apologizing.
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We began an argument in the "zoning myth" thread where he compared and contrasted Injustice 2's and Street Fighter V's zoning yet showed limited knowledge of the latter. Now he is selectively linking to videos in which Guile and Menat are rushing down or being rushed down to prove that Dr. Fate and Starfire have superior zoning. You should apologize.

NothingPersonal said:
Lol, like, who cares about the n'th podcast of m2dave talking about zoning. Really...
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haketh said:
What year am I in where I’m seeing another M2Dave Zoning podcast episode
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We were originally not even going to address the issue. We are simply reacting to what the community is discussing on social media. Besides, my opinion on zoning in Injustice 2 is rational if you listen to the podcast. I clearly state that Injustice 2 should play faster and more offensive, but some of you fools will never be happy until we get another pre-patch Mortal Kombat X.
 
Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
B. Shazzy said:
example of nrs players zero risk sleep fest “zoning” any baboon could do
obly one of those requires skill, the other a hitbox. case closed, thank me later crumsonshadow shazzy god out
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Thanks man. I agree, that Zod was totally obnoxious. That was not fun to watch. Still, I'm not ready to call him unskilled. It's a legitimate strategy to try to make your opponent angry and goad him into risky moves you can punish (it worked). And sometimes you have to ask: Do I want to play in a way the masses find acceptable, or do I want to win? I'm not condoning it; just saying that I get it.

From what I've seen, it seems like I2 has toned down this level of spam by a lot. I thought of this match with a Cyborg player (who has a projectile similar to Zod's) who's also playing with a hitbox. Maybe I'm not a good judge but it looked to me like a good case study in proper, skillful use of a zoning toolkit.


Thing is, looking through the comments, half of them are like, nah he's just abusing projectiles, he's got no skills, this proves the whole game is boring and lame... blah blah blah. And that bothers me.

I2 seems to be a game where the same mechanics that lead to dynamic, varied, exciting play in the hands of high-level players unfortunately also lead to awful spamfests in the hands of scrublords. I totally get the frustration of folks who have to deal with 90% of their playing time being spent dodging projectiles. But it seems a lot of folks (in general, not pointing at anyone) have let that frustration spillover and poison their perception of the entire game. And of course they go online and repeat the poison again and again, until it becomes part of the game's identity.

If we want the community to improve, seems to me this is something that dedicated players need to address. Keep challenging this distorted belief that low-skill spamming from the scrub horde is reflective of the whole game. Keep reminding good players that they can get to a higher level of skill where the spamming stops. It won't fix the zoning spam but at least it's a positive message to fight the poison.
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Noob
Obly said:
Thanks man. I agree, that Zod was totally obnoxious. That was not fun to watch. Still, I'm not ready to call him unskilled. It's a legitimate strategy to try to make your opponent angry and goad him into risky moves you can punish (it worked). And sometimes you have to ask: Do I want to play in a way the masses find acceptable, or do I want to win? I'm not condoning it; just saying that I get it.

From what I've seen, it seems like I2 has toned down this level of spam by a lot. I thought of this match with a Cyborg player (who has a projectile similar to Zod's) who's also playing with a hitbox. Maybe I'm not a good judge but it looked to me like a good case study in proper, skillful use of a zoning toolkit.


Thing is, looking through the comments, half of them are like, nah he's just abusing projectiles, he's got no skills, this proves the whole game is boring and lame... blah blah blah. And that bothers me.

I2 seems to be a game where the same mechanics that lead to dynamic, varied, exciting play in the hands of high-level players unfortunately also lead to awful spamfests in the hands of scrublords. I totally get the frustration of folks who have to deal with 90% of their playing time being spent dodging projectiles. But it seems a lot of folks (in general, not pointing at anyone) have let that frustration spillover and poison their perception of the entire game. And of course they go online and repeat the poison again and again, until it becomes part of the game's identity.

If we want the community to improve, seems to me this is something that dedicated players need to address. Keep challenging this distorted belief that low-skill spamming from the scrub horde is reflective of the whole game. Keep reminding good players that they can get to a higher level of skill where the spamming stops. It won't fix the zoning spam but at least it's a positive message to fight the poison.
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Very well put! That first to ten was really fun to watch and a great example of interesting zoning. I really do love this game, a shame it’s dying out.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Skedar70 said:
The argument is inj 2 in general is full of zoning.
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I agree, Injustice 2 is in general full of zoning. Zoning is a very strong strategy in the game. I just don't see anything inherently wrong with that, just like I don't have a problem with other games being more rushdown, or 50/50, or frame trap heavy.
 
NothingPersonal

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
General M2Dave said:
We began an argument in the "zoning myth" thread where he compared and contrasted Injustice 2's and Street Fighter V's zoning yet showed limited knowledge of the latter. Now he is selectively linking to videos in which Guile and Menat are rushing down or being rushed down to prove that Dr. Fate and Starfire have superior zoning. You should apologize.





We were originally not even going to address the issue. We are simply reacting to what the community is discussing on social media. Besides, my opinion on zoning in Injustice 2 is rational if you listen to the podcast. I clearly state that Injustice 2 should play faster and more offensive, but some of you fools will never be happy until we get another pre-patch Mortal Kombat X.
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Don't get confused ma'man, I ain't one of your fools.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Despite how well timed it was, let's not turn it into that kind of thread.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
When CrimsonShadow is the voice of reason in your thread you done goofed, hard


Anyway this thread just feels like an extension of this argument and using your podcast to bitch about the guy who disagreed with you to an even larger audience. Was this meant to be as transparent as it is, or....
 
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God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Eldriken said:
I can't even find the word "idiot" anywhere. Are you referring to the video?
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He's referring to calling someone a fool which is a euphemism for idiot. Whatever you want to label it as at the very least this thread started out sending shots and so I think you can let people send them back lol
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
God Confirm said:
He's referring to calling someone a fool which is a euphemism for idiot. Whatever you want to label it as at the very least this thread started out sending shots and so I think you can let people send them back lol
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He's always referred to people as "fools". He's been doing it for years. I don't think he means it the way you think he does.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Eldriken said:
He's always referred to people as "fools". He's been doing it for years. I don't think he means it the way you think he does.
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I know what he means. When he make a section called "fool of the week" and use it to get at someone he disagrees with on the forum, at some point its no longer purely satire is it, and at the very least you can call off trying to moderate other people sending shots at him if you're gonna let the thread stand.
 
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M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Eldriken said:
He's always referred to people as "fools". He's been doing it for years. I don't think he means it the way you think he does.
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Correct. I bear no malice toward Crimson Shadow. I just think he is an anti-zoning zealot disguised as the voice of reason.

Who are these new people to the forums taking offense to everything?
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
General M2Dave said:
Correct. I bear no malice toward Crimson Shadow. I just think he is an anti-zoning zealot disguised as the voice of reason.

Who are these new people to the forums taking offense to everything?
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Nobody is taking offense to anything dipshit, Eldriken was literally the one asking people to stop sending very lighthearted shots so we told him to man up and leave it up because it goes both ways.

Perhaps you should read up because the only person asking for it to stop was the one you responded to lel
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Eldriken said:
He's always referred to people as "fools". He's been doing it for years. I don't think he means it the way you think he does.
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When I see it it's usually like these anti zoning zeolots are fools. Hes specifically calling someone a fool and stirring shit here. I've had warnings for way less.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
God Confirm said:
Nobody is taking offense to anything dipshit, Eldriken was literally the one asking people to stop sending very lighthearted shots so we told him to man up and leave it up because it goes both ways.

Perhaps you should read up because the only person asking for it to stop was the one you responded to lel
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I didn't want it to spiral out of control, which it often does. That's what I'm here to prevent.

No one got infracted, moderated, etc. I was simply stating that we didn't need it to head in that direction.

Now look where it is because y'all don't know who Dave is and how he is.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Wigy said:
When I see it it's usually like these anti zoning zeolots are fools. Hes specifically calling someone a fool and stirring shit here. I've had warnings for way less.
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You're taking it too literally. While it's not a term of endearment, he's certainly not trying to insult anyone.

He'd have been infracted long ago and several times over if that was what he intended it to mean. He's been doing it for I don't know how long and I've never seen anyone myself have such an issue with it, if at all.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Eldriken said:
I didn't want it to spiral out of control, which it often does. That's what I'm here to prevent.

No one got infracted, moderated, etc. I was simply stating that we didn't need it to head in that direction.

Now look where it is because y'all don't know who Dave is and how he is.
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how the hell is casually referencing the "Tremor is abysmal" meme crossing a line that you needed to reign it in, but making a "fool of the week" rant to call out someone on the forums is fine?

Nobody was offended by anything here, I know exactly who Dave is and what is gimmick is, you're the one who started trying to limit people from lighthearted jabs, the point was that the doors already open for that in this thread you don't need to go doing that in here lol. Can we get back on topic please because behind the thinly veiled forum 1-ups, the topic of this thread is actually relevant
 
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Eldriken

Guest
God Confirm said:
how the hell is casually referencing the "Tremor is abysmal" meme crossing a line that you needed to reign it in, but making a "fool of the week" rant to call out someone on the forums is fine?

Nobody was offended by anything here, I know exactly who Dave is and what is gimmick is, you're the one who started trying to limit people from lighthearted jabs, the point was that the doors already open for that in this thread you don't need to go doing that in here lol
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You've been here long enough to know that a lighthearted joke, although well placed, can cause a thread to completely veer off course. That is all I was requesting to not happen.

But me even requesting that has caused it to go in the completely wrong direction.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Eldriken said:
You're taking it too literally. While it's not a term of endearment, he's certainly not trying to insult anyone.

He'd have been infracted long ago and several times over if that was what he intended it to mean. He's been doing it for I don't know how long and I've never seen anyone myself have such an issue with it, if at all.
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I doubt anyone's too offended by anything it's just a big fat double standard.
 
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