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KOH advice

I play rank matches, and every now and then I find a player at my level, then I find some players that are definitely above my level, and other times I find players below my level, which makes it all very engaging.

However KOH is another story. In the same group there may be players below my level, others at my level, and others definitely above my level, but since the ones above my level are the ones that stay at the top, I never get a chance to fight anyone at my level or below, and it is basically just lose, after lose, after lose.

That KOH 1,000 points goal looks very out of reach to me as a consequence, and I was wondering if there is some advice that could help me get better.

I have been playing MK since MKII. At UMK3 and MK Trilogy I was definitely one of the best, which I was able to prove to my self when the MK Arcade Collection came out with online versus.

However I'm pretty much average on every other MK game including MKX. I have been trying to learn some combos, but I'm not very good at cancelling, I just can't do it with consistency. Normal combos I have no problem with, but once you get into cancelling territory, the extra speed required to link various normal combos throws my tempo off every now and then.

In an online fight you can't have these luxuries, you have to be always consistent, and I honestly don't know if I could ever accomplish that consistency. As an adult time is not something I have in abundance, and it makes it a lot harder.

I also noticed my counter attack game is very weak too, I can get easily pushed into the corner, and then I find myself without a way out. I can use a couple bars to give myself a break, but soon I find myself in the same situation.

If I get a chance to connect a combo, I usually run out of ideas how to keep it going, and doing the same thing doesn't work. Those are some of the most common weaknesses I can find in my game.

I like to play as Sub-Zero, Cyber Smoke, and Bo Rai Cho. I would love to be good with Shinnok and Quan Chi, but I can't figure out how to take advantage of their move sets, and I only do good with them against the AI, but it is the KOH 1,000 points what I'm really after right now.

Once I do that, I can just relax, and have fun with the ranked matches mode, but as of right now, it doesn't look like I will be able to manage getting there. Any advice is definitely welcomed.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
I'm familiar with grandmaster sub, smoke, and bartitsu bo. But I feel like I'd need footage or something in order to be able to give the advice you're looking for. All I can really say from what you posted is to practice your BnBs. If you don't know what they are, watch tourney footage on YouTube. If you're ending up in the corner you're either getting out-neutraled in the poking game or just getting opened up with combos that have corner carry. Again, I can't really see. But once you're in the corner, know that jumping out is death 90% of the time. It's a last resort. Try to land a poke when you can, and back throw them into the corner. Unless of course your character has other means of switching sides.
 

Snibbor

Yarrrr Matey
Yea basically what was already said. Practice your BnBs a lot, watch tournament play of others using your character so you can get some ideas of new ways to play or things to do with said character. Also like was already said, it’s difficult to give direct pointers/advice without any match footage, if you post some we could break it down a bit and give better advice for sure.

Sorry if I missed this but what system are you on?
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Regarding doing combos, there is really no way around it other then keep practicing like said here already. Also, what Variations of Sub-Zero, Bo' Rai Cho, Shinnok and Quan Chi you like to play? That's also a factor you have to consider, as the Variations can alter the character's gameplan from very little to a completely different one, and each can also be varied in difficulty of their gameplan and the execution level required for combos with each of them. Bo' Rai Cho, for one, is very hard to play in both the Dragon Breath and Drunken Master Variations, but is a lot easier in Bartitsu. So you need to look at all of the Variations of each character and pick the ones that you feel like will fit you the most. You already did it for Triborg by picking Smoke, so you need to do the same for the others. Of course all Variations of one character might fit you at the end, but at first try to narrow it down only one Variation per character. First use the training mode to find your preferred Variations and practice on your BNB combos, then go and try them against the AI in the Single Fight mode (as this can also be an excellent way to practice your combos and timing) and then go online once you feel ready.

As for the KOTH 1000 point milestone specifically, try to find KOTH lobbies with only 2-3 people so you won't have to wait a lot, or invite other players to your own lobby, as once you start a KOTH session that way you start at the top already and you don't need to wait unless you lose. You can also play against other people in the rooms for longer sessions in regular player matches which case you can find opponents at your desired level.

Hope that it helps :)
 
The main ones I play:

Bo Rai Cho - Dragon Breath

Triborg - Smoke

Sub-Zero - Grandmaster

Then I also like:

Quan Chi - Summoner

Shinnok - Bone Shaper

Raiden - Thunder God

I'm going to upload some videos to see if I can get some feedback.
 

Snibbor

Yarrrr Matey
Here is a fight I recorded with Bo Rai Cho:

One thing you definitely could’ve done better was D2 Jason’s jump in. If you notice someone jumping in almost every time like that, stand at jump distance and wait for them to do it and d2 them once they’re airborne. Hopefully they catch on and stop jumping as much, otherwise you can just keep d2ing them
 
I won 3 times in a row out of nowhere. The 3rd time was with Bo Rai Cho, but for some reason the video upload keeps getting interrupted. Either way I managed to upload the other two. It was very surprising to me not only to win, but to win 3 times in a row with 3 different people, and since I already had 3 wins, the 3 new ones gave me the Royalty trophy in between. There is a long way to go to 1,000 points, but at least for a moment it gave me some hope.

I'll put the videos in different comments so you guys can give me feedback on how to improve. I know these are wins, but there is always a lot of space for getting better.

Triborg - Smoke

 
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It finally uploaded. This is the win with Bo Rai Cho:


I feel my main issue is that I see people pulling 16 hits combos, and I can barely do 4 hits combos myself. They look so complicated, but if other people can do them I guess it is possible.

I feel time is the biggest issue. It takes forever to fight on the KOH mode, and when you do it is very easy to have many loses in a row. These recent wins are giving me hope though, and that's a good thing.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
seems like you're really playing the game like an oldschool mk title like throwing out uppercuts out of nowhere. you also don't seem too familiar with frame data, you don't have to know everything but a few things are important to know like most of d2's are actually punishable, so is smokes b213 and his spear. I suggest you look up a few pro player how they play the characters.here are a few examples:
triborg smoke - Scar
grandmaster sub-zero - Madzin
Boneshaper shinnok - Dragon
look how they play them and what combos they're using. and just keep practising, you'll get there
 
seems like you're really playing the game like an oldschool mk title like throwing out uppercuts out of nowhere. you also don't seem too familiar with frame data, you don't have to know everything but a few things are important to know like most of d2's are actually punishable, so is smokes b213 and his spear. I suggest you look up a few pro player how they play the characters.here are a few examples:
triborg smoke - Scar
grandmaster sub-zero - Madzin
Boneshaper shinnok - Dragon
look how they play them and what combos they're using. and just keep practising, you'll get there
I started using more D2s after the other guy mentioned it above. It did help win those 3 fights, but I'm sure you can only go so far with the old school fighting style.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
You got a long way to go, my brother. You’re whiffing too many normals, particularly random d2s. They’re punishable and that habit will get you eaten alive. And, when you do land a a jump in clean you’ve got to make it hurt more than following it up with a d2. Basically....stop uppercutting! It’s rrally only useful for the main part as an anti air (assuming your character doesn’t have a standing 1, d1 anti air that leads to a full combo) or to savagely blow up an opponent’s high attack or something.

MKX is an offensive game, and with that, you’ve got to cash out damage when you have the chance, so you NEED to learn some bnb midscreen and corner combos at minimum.

You were also pretty willy nilly with your meter usage. You kind of panic and do an armored attack and even those you’re spacing was off and you were whiffing. Save that meter for damaging combos and for breakers and an occasional wake up or get off me move.

I really recommend you watch some high level play featuring characters you like and get a feel for how they’re supposed to be played. You also need to hit training mode and be able to land typical combos more often than not. Good luck!
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I started using more D2s after the other guy mentioned it above. It did help win those 3 fights, but I'm sure you can only go so far with the old school fighting style.
it works against certain people yes, but it will take ages that way if you want 1000 points and you'll run against a player who can deal with it sooner or later since it's a pretty obvious tactic.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
I won 3 times in a row out of nowhere. The 3rd time was with Bo Rai Cho, but for some reason the video upload keeps getting interrupted. Either way I managed to upload the other two. It was very surprising to me not only to win, but to win 3 times in a row with 3 different people, and since I already had 3 wins, the 3 new ones gave me the Royalty trophy in between. There is a long way to go to 1,000 points, but at least for a moment it gave me some hope.

I'll put the videos in different comments so you guys can give me feedback on how to improve. I know these are wins, but there is always a lot of space for getting better.

Triborg - Smoke

From what I can tell it seems you dont have any grasp of any technical fighting game stuff beyond combos. I dont mean this as an attack on you of course, just simply an observation.

I would advise looking up some crucial fighting game stuff, primarily concerning neutral and frame data, then learn how to apply that to your gameplay and by extension each of your characters.

Three of your most glaring obvious flaws are that you dont know when to block, you throw out a lot of unsafe moves, and you mash d2 a lot. D2 should not be a fall back tool because it is heavily unsafe and very risky against anybody who knows what they're doing.
 
Yes, I usually don't do D2s, the guy here mentioned them, and it got me 3 wins in a row, so the advice he gave me helped, but I know that's not something I can rely on. I lost the 4th fight, and funny enough that's when I stopped using them because I thought people was going to notice them. Then I stopped playing, but I was happy with the trophy.

It is a long way to go from here. I'm an adult so with work and everything else I obviously don't have time to play all the time. I'm not aiming to win EVO or anything like that, just the KOH 1,000 points.

It is going to be tough and that's why I made this thread. I heard there are 3 types of fighters, the ones that like to trick the others with setups, then the ones that rely on frame data and fast reaction, and the ones that just play by intuition. I guess I am the third kind, I need to learn how to be more like the other two too, but it takes a lot of time to get there. I guess it is all about patience.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
You do seem to have an improvement in your combo execution as I can see videos of the matches that you won. You still have a long way too go, but it's a step in the right direction and a good start. Keep doing that plus take the advices that people already gave you here and you should be fine.

I do wanna point out that on both your Triborg Smoke and GM Sub-Zero matches, you spent meter for a Combo Breaker and an X-Ray respectively while your health bar was very low on the first round. That is a very risky move to do, as while it saves you from losing the first round for the time being, the opponent can still beat you in this round which will end up with you having almost no meter to no meter at all while your opponent will be just one round away from winning the whole match, while you could've use the meter the next round for whatever you would need to. Yes you managed to get the win on both of those rounds, in a clutch-style fashion and which was very good, I will give you that, but it's still a very risky move. So my advice is that don't go for a Breaker or an X-Ray with very little health unless you are 110% sure you're gonna win the round at the end (or even take the round in the spot in the case of using the X-Ray) or if the opponent is about to beat you for the 2nd round so can still have a chance of not losing the whole match.

Also, playing by intuition is not a bad thing at it's core, as that means you have a way of quick thinking which can help you in clutch moments. Of course you can and should lean at least a bit more towards playing with setups and/or by frame data and fast reactions, but you can still use the intuition, you just need to get more experience in general and use it properly.

Once again you are in the right direction already, just keep it up :)
 
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Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Yes, I usually don't do D2s, the guy here mentioned them, and it got me 3 wins in a row, so the advice he gave me helped, but I know that's not something I can rely on. I lost the 4th fight, and funny enough that's when I stopped using them because I thought people was going to notice them. Then I stopped playing, but I was happy with the trophy.

It is a long way to go from here. I'm an adult so with work and everything else I obviously don't have time to play all the time. I'm not aiming to win EVO or anything like that, just the KOH 1,000 points.

It is going to be tough and that's why I made this thread. I heard there are 3 types of fighters, the ones that like to trick the others with setups, then the ones that rely on frame data and fast reaction, and the ones that just play by intuition. I guess I am the third kind, I need to learn how to be more like the other two too, but it takes a lot of time to get there. I guess it is all about patience.
In the very first video you posted against the Jason player you were throwing out a ton of d2s dude lol. That was before the advice.

And the advice was specifically about using d2 to catch players who constantly jump towards you, not to use it in neutral.
 
In the very first video you posted against the Jason player you were throwing out a ton of d2s dude lol. That was before the advice.

And the advice was specifically about using d2 to catch players who constantly jump towards you, not to use it in neutral.
Yes, I actually was going to write about this. I started playing for a little bit thinking about D2s since some people here mentioned it, and then I was noticing that yes, indeed, I do D2s ALL the time. This is something I didn't even acknowledge before until you guys pointed it out. You can tell I wasn't aware of it by my previous comment where I say I don't even do it. Boy I was wrong.

What happens is that it is worse than you think, not only I do it a lot, I do it automatically without even being conscious of me doing it. I became so aware of it now, that I even tried to consciously not do D2s at all during entire matches, and I simply couldn't do it.

So even while trying not to do D2s I found myself doing them as a natural built in habit. I was really surprised I couldn't even stopped doing them even while trying, it was hilarious, but now that I know about it, and that I actually was able to notice it, I'm definitely going to try to remove that habit entirely because it is so incredibly ingrained that I wasn't even able to see it.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Yes, I actually was going to write about this. I started playing for a little bit thinking about D2s since some people here mentioned it, and then I was noticing that yes, indeed, I do D2s ALL the time. This is something I didn't even acknowledge before until you guys pointed it out. You can tell I wasn't aware of it by my previous comment where I say I don't even do it. Boy I was wrong.

What happens is that it is worse than you think, not only I do it a lot, I do it automatically without even being conscious of me doing it. I became so aware of it now, that I even tried to consciously not do D2s at all during entire matches, and I simply couldn't do it.

So even while trying not to do D2s I found myself doing them as a natural built in habit. I was really surprised I couldn't even stopped doing them even while trying, it was hilarious, but now that I know about it, and that I actually was able to notice it, I'm definitely going to try to remove that habit entirely because it is so incredibly ingrained that I wasn't even able to see it.
I totally understand!!! We all have habits that are just totally unconscious and are hard as hell to break, believe me.

You’ll get through that phase, trust me.
 
I totally understand!!! We all have habits that are just totally unconscious and are hard as hell to break, believe me.

You’ll get through that phase, trust me.
I hope so, but I wouldn't even call it a phase, I'm starting to realize this is not something I developed overnight, instead it comes from all those classic MK games. MK Arcade Kollection is probably the only fighting release where I was able to get 20 wins streaks at a regular basis, usually I don't get even more than 3 on any other fighting game, so that repetition definitely adds up pretty quickly.

I feel a big issue for me is that I play too many different fighting games at once, so I never get a chance to commit to anything, and I never get good at anything specifically. There are just too many good games coming out from different developers that it is very hard to resist the temptation to play them all.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I hope so, but I wouldn't even call it a phase, I'm starting to realize this is not something I developed overnight, instead it comes from all those classic MK games. MK Arcade Kollection is probably the only fighting release where I was able to get 20 wins streaks at a regular basis, usually I don't get even more than 3 on any other fighting game, so that repetition definitely adds up pretty quickly.

I feel a big issue for me is that I play too many different fighting games at once, so I never get a chance to commit to anything, and I never get good at anything specifically. There are just too many good games coming out from different developers that it is very hard to resist the temptation to play them all.
Fair enough dude! It’s definitely true for most mere mortals like us we have to devote ourselves to 1-2 games to have any real success in them, if even then.

I will say though that many/most fighting games have principles and concepts that are universal, so in a way, playing several games can help you too.

The concepts of spacing, whiff punishing, wake up, frame advantage etc. apply to all games. So you can build really strong fundamentals for fighting games in general that will help you in whichever game you play.

I’m over 30, played the original MK,II,3 and SF2, but didn’t get “serious” until the end of Injustice. It’s possible to play fighting games you’re whole life and even beat people and yet have no clue what you’re doing and that was me.

I suggest you watch some fighting game fundamental videos on YouTube you’ll learn a ton, and I guarantee you can break the habit of d2ing so much. Don’t just accept that it’s something you do. Ultradavid, Tom Brady back in mk9, etc. have some good content that covers a lot that will take you from casual player to a competitive player.
 
It’s possible to play fighting games you’re whole life and even beat people and yet have no clue what you’re doing.
Yes, this is very true . I mean you still have some idea, if you play a lot, but nothing very specific. I mean unless you are like 10 years old, no one is mashing buttons. For example Hadouken teaches you about footsies and spacing, but a lot of us do it without realizing we are doing it, and because we don't realize it, sometimes we just don't do it at all.

Being aware of it is definitely a good goal to have, and like you said, it can help you on all the games. Intuition can only take you so long. I feel a lot of the reasons why I was never inclined to learn technicalities is because of laziness, time, and because I just wanted to play. Plus games like UMK3 and KI were spoiling me, giving me multiples wins for many years with a lot of consistency.

Once I started playing KOF I realized I couldn't get the same results, and I figured I needed to learn technicalities, but I never did for the reasons I already mentioned. It doesn't mean I wasn't enjoying some wins, but never as consistent as I was in classic MK and KI, but only with specific characters I played a lot.

I think it is never too late to learn new stuff. This is why I'm open to all criticism, posting videos and stuff. If I have a bad habit, I want to fix it, and as long as I'm still enjoying the game I don't see a problem with getting better in certain areas.

Edit: I'm not striving for perfection. I don't want to win tournaments, I just want to have fun, and for that to keep happening winning once in a while is part of it, losing all the time is not. If that was the case I probably would have stopped playing years ago. So if a few tweaks can help me improve I'm all for it.
 
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OK, so I have been actively trying to not use uppercuts at all, and now the game is losing a lot of its charm.

I honestly think there is a level of satisfaction in performing that move that it is irreplaceable with anything else.

In fact, the one thing that made me consider Injustice as something legit is the presence of that attack.

I know I must retire my love for it, but I would go as far as to say that it is my favorite thing about the game, it is the one thing that makes me like the game more than Street Fighter. Not even the fatalities can take its place.

I like the dragon punch on Street Fighter, but it is not near as satisfying as the uppercut in Mortal Kombat for some reason.

I didn't recognize this until now. Like some people say, you don't know what you have until you lose it. The whole thing of not doing it is making me appreciate it like never before.

It sucks it can make you lose, but it also sucks not having it. It's basically like a U2 song, you can't live with or without it.

I would also add normal attacks are bomb. If you can win solely relying on specials and normal attacks you have my respect.

I understand you are basically putting a rope around your neck, but that's also what makes it more tight and admirable.
 
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