Enter the Bane: General Discussion

UGL Cthulahoop said:

When people get on mic to yell. "So your trait just makes you invulnerable to everything? Wow alright my guy just sit there and build trait some more" when he plays SuperMan and Robin with 2000'ish games under his belt. But he knew about my tick throws of all things. Im sure it is MU knowledge but there are definitely people who know stuff about bane but don't know the property changes of level 2/3 venom. Some are even unaware that transitions/supers reset his debuff

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So much of what you said I agree with. I once had a dude yell at me for cornering him as Bane and that's a cheap strategy.

I actually think strategic clashing and transitions are a legit strategy to gain the upper hand, like you might lose your clash, only do it if you have the meter and actually sorta need it obv, but if you do it at the right time it can reeaaallly fuck him up. Esp if you're a character who can beat Bane midscreen and don't need the corner and can afford a transition, which is a lot of chars.

I remember that one major where Bio was fighting... I want to say tekkenmaster's atro back when the game was like first out, at that major where Madzin threw a chair wheneve that was.

My boy had to go through level 3 debuff 3 times basically, he was in debuff for like 25 seconds straight and lost because of it

What's funny is that (IIRC) only some characters get their trait CD reset upon being dragged into a cinematic. As if that was some deliberate decision on NRS' part. Which I find weird.

Cursa said:

So much of what you said I agree with. I once had a dude yell at me for cornering him as Bane and that's a cheap strategy.

I actually think strategic clashing and transitions are a legit strategy to gain the upper hand, like you might lose your clash, only do it if you have the meter and actually sorta need it obv, but if you do it at the right time it can reeaaallly fuck him up. Esp if you're a character who can beat Bane midscreen and don't need the corner and can afford a transition, which is a lot of chars.

I remember that one major where Bio was fighting... I want to say tekkenmaster's atro back when the game was like first out, at that major where Madzin threw a chair wheneve that was.

My boy had to go through level 3 debuff 3 times basically, he was in debuff for like 25 seconds straight and lost because of it

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Strategic Clashing is basic anti-Bane strategy for anyone who knows the MU.

From what I have observed, a major reason so few people seem to know how to play the Bane MU properly has to do with subpar Bane play. Apparently a lot of people are accustomed to playing Banes who rely far too heavily on his command grab, and are unprepared when they face players who base their gameplan around Bane's real strengths: d1 jails and the variety of armor/mix options he presents on oki, of which command grab is only one option out of many.

Not really surprising given it's one of his safest mixup tools if we account for people pushing buttons back.

ChoseDeath said:

I'll be honest man, the exact kind of shit you're talking about is why I quit playing this game. Bane is negated 90% of the time, Grodd is so much fun but just gets wrecked, et al.

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I quit too because of this. Bane, Grodd and cheetah were chars i enjoyed the most. I know it's all about patience and getting in. But every match was so slow paced i got bored. Winning or losing didn't matter, just bored

Bane would be boring (and broke) if he got in for free, half the satisfaction of pounding people in the corner is the build up getting them there in the first place knowing you earned your beat down.

Wetdoba said:

Bane would be boring (and broke) if he got in for free, half the satisfaction of pounding people in the corner is the build up getting them there in the first place knowing you earned your beat down.

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I'd agree with that most of the time. But here there are just a million ways to escape the corner, there are too many matches where Bane struggles so hard it just IS NOT FUN, and I feel like if you don't play either 4 characters very well to cover match ups or play one top tier, you can't just do your thing. And I had a ball playing Grundy in IGAU. This meta just bores the hell out of me.

ChoseDeath said:

I'd agree with that most of the time. But here there are just a million ways to escape the corner, there are too many matches where Bane struggles so hard it just IS NOT FUN, and I feel like if you don't play either 4 characters very well to cover match ups or play one top tier, you can't just do your thing. And I had a ball playing Grundy in IGAU. This meta just bores the hell out of me.

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Idk, I have been finding lots of character specific stuff and universal oki tech that has been making certain mus much more manageable. Also helps that everyone at my local plays Banes hard mus so I have been able to lab/grind them out pretty well. This is honestly the most I have enjoyed the game since day 1. The only BS way out of the corner is the interactables for small characters that are make them fly out with armor into a launcher but other than that Bane is not letting you out. I was originally going to legitimately learn other characters for certain mus for Evo but some of the stuff I am finding combined with how much naturally better I am with Bane over anyone has me considering otherwise.

Wetdoba said:

Idk, I have been finding lots of character specific stuff and universal oki tech that has been making certain mus much more manageable. Also helps that everyone at my local plays Banes hard mus so I have been able to lab/grind them out pretty well. This is honestly the most I have enjoyed the game since day 1. The only BS way out of the corner is the interactables for small characters that are make them fly out with armor into a launcher but other than that Bane is not letting you out.

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Very true. And I've watched your stuff (YouTube sub) and it's been very entertaining and I thank you for sharing your hard work with us! I'm sure I'll pick this back up, I haven't played since before the Turtles released.

Here are a few vid drops. I am probably going to make a thread on the universal oki stuff I mentioned or we could keep it to ourselves since I know no one else researches their oki like I do

It basically has to do with everyone universally having more knockdown advantage if they do not wake up (about 10 or more frames, have to really test) vs what it says in the moveslists, which is the hit advantage if they do wake up. This means command grab can be more like plus 15 on hit if they do not wake up (from round 1 of testing it is minimum plus 13, vs 5 if they do wake up). This means that we can effectively shimmy wake ups without losing net frame advantage and "OS-ing" wake up time periods so that we are blocking while they are in the time period to wake up but pressuring after they have forfeited that option. Very very good for maintaining pressure on debuff or against delayed wake ups. I will explain more after work.

Funny you bring that up because the other day I did this and have been meaning to upload;

That crossed up by the by, I had to check the blocking direction to make sure lol

Wetdoba said:

Idk, I have been finding lots of character specific stuff and universal oki tech that has been making certain mus much more manageable.

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Tbh I think this is where I need to improve my game a little more. That's why I made a thread for that flash parry-grab immune wakeup shit - for me, in some of those matchups, it's actually like game changing tech. Like suddenly Blue Beetle is afraid to wakeup because compared to someone like say, Flash, who will eat a grab if he wakes up, Beetle will eat like 800 damage if I have the 2 bars for it, just because he decided to wakeup.

Like sure it doesn't mean that it suddenly becomes a 6-4 Bane favour but it's little MU specific intricacies like that that make a huuugggee difference for a lot of Bane MU's.

Ok so essentially to elaborate on my last post about the universal knockdown advantage, the advantage on hit shown in the moveslist for any given knockdown is based on the frame advantage if they are waking up, but if they do not wake up the knockdown will be at least 8 frames longer.

To test this you can set wonderwoman to wake up shield bash. This move has zero invincibility but is an 8 frame start up. Command grab is plus 5 on hit so in order to stuff wake up shoulder we have to S1 (7 frame start up) to frame trap it.

Now set wonderwoman ai movement to jump. Command grab her and immediately S2 (13 frame start up) and youll notice that S2 hits her and leaves her standing still because it was a true meaty that hit before she was airborne. So if S2 true meaties here that means command grab is a minimum of plus 14 on hit if they do not wake up. So add about 10 frames to any knockdown in the moveslist if they choose not to wake up. I have only tested this on hard knockdowns but Im pretty sure the same concept applies to soft knockdowns if they do not tech roll.

Hit advantage example from what I was talking about earlier, by delaying the d1 we can make catwoman DP whiff while also meatying her trying to hold up if she does not wake up

Another mu I see Banes struggle with, make sure GAs know their wake ups are fraudulent, because we all know whatever GA is doing on wake up, its not blocking.

Closest would be wonder woman but I dont think it is a true 7-3

thlityoursloat said:

do any of you think bane has a 3-7?

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probs not.

Does anyone have good relevant bane matches on video? Trying to get back into Bane and having a hard time figuring out a solid game plan. Seeing how other players play him would help. Thanks!

FFAxHades said:

Does anyone have good relevant bane matches on video? Trying to get back into Bane and having a hard time figuring out a solid game plan. Seeing how other players play him would help. Thanks!

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Id look for vids of Biohazard or FK Jr/Burrito Vorhees.

Other then them there arent really tournament Banes. I might stream some before Evo tho since a few people have asked.

You can also dash forward B2 after b21 and f3 midscreen if they do not tech roll