Why do people hate Injustice 2? Podcast Discussion.

Cashual said:

I stopped months ago. I’m not still not sure if he is a troll or an alias of either MKF30 or Primbloodghost or madeofmetal.

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I don't even know who are the last 2 guys that you mentioned, and I can assure you me and MKF30 are two different people (I tend to assume if you have problems with him as well). And if you can't comprehend what I'm saying that you call me a troll then you just making yourself to be a facepalm magnet. Just saying.

Icefyre said:

Yes. I'm stalking Juggs. I hope he never notices, I like my prey unaware.

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That is very bad out of you sir, I should warn Juggs right now (end of sarcasam).

Cursa said:

You could also read it as MKX being more unbalanced to having more characters, which is one of the reasons the variation system was disliked by some people

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That is something that only a negative person would say. Not saying you're one, but for a game with 100 chars, MKX super balanced.

Cursa said:

He's turning the community away from people complaining about Fate/SF's zoning and focusing on their jump ins, because why does a zoner need some of the best jump ins in the game? If you hurt their jump ins then their gameplan stays the same basically, hurt their zoning and you end up with a Deadshot situation which is why I brought him up in the first place.

Not that I think their jump ins are broken but that's the way I read what he said

There's "hard to deal with" jump ins and then "literally impossible" to anti-air jump ins with a bad D2. Cyborg is never anti-airing anything better than like Darkseid J2 on reaction and there is a ton of jump ins better than that. You'll never anti-air a Robin or Harley as Cyborg, let alone the actually ridiculous jump ins in the game. And then you throw in the fact he doesn't have the buttons to prevent people from jumping at jump in range to begin with and how much some characters can get off of a blocked jump in, it does seem a little crazy to have basically 0 options to deal with it.

It's basically like upshot/JI on a read or backdash after blocking. First one is a read and the second nets 0 reward and still has risks attached to it. All because they decided to jump at you.


You say this like Reo wouldn't have actually lab'd all this. He even goes on to say he only thinks Cyborg has 4(?) losing matchups and the characters with the proper crazy jump ins like Scarecrow and Catwoman weren't among them I believe.

He's not even saying "NRS fix this right now, unplayable currently" it's literally just constructive criticism for the next game, or a next patch for IJ2 if there is one (doubtful).

So I'll say again - I think you need to separate the players who have labbed the stuff and have an actual good idea of what might be wrong with the game and those who just complain for the lolz or whatever. Sure, Reo might be wrong on anti-airs, but to say he "shouldn't just sit and complain for NRS to patch the game for him" is actually just really disrespectful, considering, as you've said yourself, he's had the time to put in the lab and work on the solutions, so if he can't find one, maybe he's kinda got a point.

And for the record, I'm fine with characters having bad anti-airs, but characters like Cyborg have 0 reactionary anti-airs in a good chunk of MU's. I know, I've used them myself, one of the major buffs a large portion of the Cyborg community has wanted was a bette anti-air. And I like to think I'm pretty on point with my anti-air game.

At least we agree that people pick up pocket characters like SF not because it sucks to fight 4-6's but that it's just easy to pick up someone like SF and fight a 5-5/6-4 instead

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As a Starfire player myself, I can tell you that she is not pure Zoner like Fate. She is a jack of all trades master of none type of char, as she has a lot of stuff from almost everything at least with the main focus of her being her Zoning/ Star being a pure Zoner is big misconception that people have about her. Even Tweedy said in the past that you should never play Star as a pure Zoner. So her having a strong Jump in is not surprising at all. And as for Fate, I don't know much about him, but just because you are a pure Zoner that doesn't you can't have at one or two more good tools outside of Zoning. It's really not something new.

As for REO, of course REO labbed Cybrog to some degree. What I meant was that he should've lab even more, because like I've said earlier, he could've lab Cyborg even more because he should have more time, but he didn't lab him enough. At least that's what it looks like. And yes, complaning about MU's is just as bad as complaning in general, because at this stage of game you need to take the time to lab even more. And even if REO did lab, just like King Hippo and Slips said, every player is gonna reach his wall of creativity that will prevent him from finding new stuff for his char, and there might some stuff that he could've been used but he didn't know it was there, unless another player uses that same char and finds it himself, which can be related to the fact that the competitive portion of the NRS fanbase is still small. So yeah, REO bitching about MU's and AA's and even blowing up the community for not bitching the same rants as him (he literally said that in the podcast) that is very disrespectful on his part.

Like, the pros in the IPS pick the chars that are known now to be strong, but if people would've lab more to do not having any pressure or time issues, maybe more chars could've been used by them.

About Cyborg, you mentioned D2, does that mean you, and maybe REO as well, rely just on D2? On top of that, granted, I don't know that much about Cyborg either, but even if there is indeed no chance that Cyborg can AA some chars, that might be because he's got some super strong options in other areas, which means he might not have a strong AA option on purpose. This is called counter balancing.

Also one more thing that I've forgot to mention in my previous post, AA's in NRS games are not fucked at all whatsoever. In MK9, you could've AA pretty much anything with just standing 1, even REO mentioned that in the podcast, and in MKX, AA's are indeed harder, but you still could've use some normals or specials to use as AA's. Ragnarock made a great video about AA's in MKX, and him, also, said that as the player, you should lab to find the right options for every possible jump in, which is what I did with Reptile in MKX and I even made a video about it. On top of that, REO in the podcast did mention that in SF, you have to think when you AA with moves such as Shoryuken, while in MK9 you didn't have to think at all, as you could've just use standing one. That gives me the impression that he just wanna get super easy AA's and that makes it even harder for me to take his word on the topic seriously.

And one final thing, if you are gonna tell me that I have to take REO's word more seriously just because he is a pro, just remember what Sonic said about Black Adam not too long ago on Twitter.

Wigy said:

I wouldn't usually have said that but Im so tired of players saying you have to be a bad player if u don't like zoning for injustice.

Firing shots back at this elitest zoner crowd.

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If you're not in the anti-zoning zealots who complain that Deadshot is still op then you're good.

If you're not in the zoning-witness door-knockers who tell you that SF/Fate are honest characters then you're good.

Just ignore either crowd. Zoning at the top-top level is pretty shitty but, at least for me, there are zoners in the game that are both balanced and enjoyable to watch/play. I have a good time if I play against a good Darkseid, Cyborg, Arrow, Harley, Ivy, or Deadshot.

I still agree with the people who say that it's not really zoning is too much the problem but once you get past the zoning you have to deal with all their up close/footsie shit which is equally as good, if not better, than the character you're playing. If you could do the work and get past the top zoning and be rewarded for it it'd be alright, but then you got to deal with their up close tools too

Roy Arkon said:

That is something that only a negative person would say. Not saying you're one, but for a game with 100 chars, MKX super balanced.

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No, it's something someone would say to give NRS some honest feedback - don't make a game with 100 chars because it's unbalanced.

Roy Arkon said:

As a Starfire player myself, I can tell you that she is not pure Zoner like Fate. She is a jack of all trades master of none type of char, as she has a lot of stuff from almost everything at least with the main focus of her being her Zoning/ Star being a pure Zoner is big misconception that people have about her. Even Tweedy said in the past that you should never play Star as a pure Zoner. So her having a strong Jump in is not surprising at all. And as for Fate, I don't know much about him, but just because you are a pure Zoner that doesn't you can't have at one or two more good tools outside of Zoning. It's really not something new.

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I can't handle this anymore. Fate has more than "one or two" good tools outside zoning, he has one of the best AA's with loads of active frames and is safe on block, some of the best jump ins, for both jumping in and anti-airing, insane footsie tools and a -8 special that is unpunishable by basically the entire cast, which also knocks the opponent fullscreen on hit, serves as a semi-invincible WU, and has loads of pushback on it, putting him back in his ideal footsie range, or you could go for a backdash and just be halfscreen again.

Starfire is not a jack of all trades character, she's a zoner. She never has to rushdown outside of MAYBE a handful of matchups and basically all her specials are built towards zoning/defensive playstyle. Tbh I think she's just a better flavour for a lot of characters over Fate but also has infinitely better air control fullscreen than Fate.

Superman, Batman, Beetle, Supergirl, Green Lantern are jack of all trades characters, they can zone out pure rushdown characters for better or worse but usually get zoned out by pure zoners

Roy Arkon said:

As for REO, of course REO labbed Cybrog to some degree. What I meant was that he should've lab even more, because like I've said earlier, he could've lab Cyborg even more because he should have more time, but he didn't lab him enough. At least that's what it looks like. And yes, complaning about MU's is just as bad as complaning in general, because at this stage of game you need to take the time to lab even more. And even if REO did lab, just like King Hippo and Slips said, every player is gonna reach his wall of creativity that will prevent him from finding new stuff for his char, and there might some stuff that he could've been used but he didn't know it was there, unless another player uses that same char and finds it himself, which can be related to the fact that the competitive portion of the NRS fanbase is still small. So yeah, REO bitching about MU's and AA's and even blowing up the community for not bitching the same rants as him (he literally said that in the podcast) that is very disrespectful on his part.

Like, the pros in the IPS pick the chars that are known now to be strong, but if people would've lab more to do not having any pressure or time issues, maybe more chars could've been used by them.

About Cyborg, you mentioned D2, does that mean you, and maybe REO as well, rely just on D2? On top of that, granted, I don't know that much about Cyborg either, but even if there is indeed no chance that Cyborg can AA some chars, that might be because he's got some super strong options in other areas, which means he might not have a strong AA option on purpose. This is called counter balancing.

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Dude stop talking about stuff that you clearly don't understand. You literally have the audacity to say REO just needs to lab more to learn the MU's, and saying that Cyborg excels in other areas when he actually still has problems in areas that are part of the reason that makes him a below average character is insane.

Literally the whole Cyborg community has been talking about how terrible his anti-airs have been since the release of the game.

You're actually dismissing all the labbing the entire community has done in trying to find an anti-air, while also simultaneously saying that you don't know the character. So just stop with that it's hypocritical as fuck

Roy Arkon said:

And one final thing, if you are gonna tell me that I have to take REO's word more seriously just because he is a pro, just remember what Sonic said about Black Adam not too long ago on Twitter.

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Literally not at all what I said, I said take his word more seriously because he's put in the work in the lab.

I see why people have ignored you now, kinda feeling like doing the same tbh. Like, you say the community needs to stop complaining and level up their game instead, but also openly admit that you don't know some of the characters very well, so how would you know at all?

Hello? @Anyone? Am I going insane?

Fate has more rushdown tools than some rushdown characters have like come on.

Cursa said:

If you're not in the anti-zoning zealots who complain that Deadshot is still op then you're good.

If you're not in the zoning-witness door-knockers who tell you that SF/Fate are honest characters then you're good.

Just ignore either crowd. Zoning at the top-top level is pretty shitty but, at least for me, there are zoners in the game that are both balanced and enjoyable to watch/play. I have a good time if I play against a good Darkseid, Cyborg, Arrow, Harley, Ivy, or Deadshot.

I still agree with the people who say that it's not really zoning is too much the problem but once you get past the zoning you have to deal with all their up close/footsie shit which is equally as good, if not better, than the character you're playing. If you could do the work and get past the top zoning and be rewarded for it it'd be alright, but then you got to deal with their up close tools too

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I don't think Deadshot is good and I don't think the zoners are out and out OP. I think both could use some slight tweaks. Make Starfire's charge not invincible vs a lot of moves and reduce active frames of b2 with fate.

My main issue is just the 0 read bullshit. You're just forced to hold stuff without them out playing you. Then you finally get in and they have great tools there too.

Cursa said:

Ease of use is universal but zoning characters have the skill/reward ratio skewed out of favour. A character like Bane will be harder to use mechanically than someone like Starfire, and even he's not that hard.

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I am not going to discuss which characters are easiest to use because there already is a thread for that topic. I will say that at a low level zoning characters tend to be easier to use than rush down characters because utilizing one or two moves full screen away is easier than closing the gap and applying the appropriate mix ups up close. However, the key words are "at a low level", on which important balance decisions should not be based. Doomsday, a rush down character in Injustice 1, was very effective and easy to use, particularly at a low level, because dealing with earth shaker, MB shoulder ram, and trait is difficult, yet I never complained about the character or asked NRS for changes. I focused on legitimate problems like Martian Manhunter. You and many other players, on the other hand, are constantly complainig about Starfire and Dr. Fate. Starfire is somewhat understandable, but Dr. Fate has already been normalized in the last patch. If NRS makes two or more changes, he will end up like Deadshot, a competitively worthless character on whom no player has even put the cursor for months. This goal is what anti-zoning zealots want for all zoning characters.

General M2Dave said:

I am not going to discuss which characters are easiest to use because there already is a thread for that topic. I will say that at a low level zoning characters tend to be easier to use than rush down characters because utilizing one or two moves full screen away is easier than closing the gap and applying the appropriate mix ups up close. However, the key words are "at a low level", on which important balance decisions should not be based. Doomsday, a rush down character in Injustice 1, was very effective and easy to use, particularly at a low level, because dealing with earth shaker, MB shoulder ram, and trait is difficult, yet I never complained about the character or asked NRS for changes. I focused on legitimate problems like Martian Manhunter. You and many other players, on the other hand, are constantly complainig about Starfire and Dr. Fate. Starfire is somewhat understandable, but Dr. Fate has already been normalized in the last patch. If NRS makes two or more changes, he will end up like Deadshot, a competitively worthless character on whom no player has even put the cursor for months. This goal is what anti-zoning zealots want for all zoning characters.

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Personally I don't want a bunch of unviable characters I just want nrs to design a zoning character that's not just totally lazy pew pew to be viable. I agree with most of what you said I think you just overstate the skill they take at the higher levels. (Talking about fate and Starfire)

Wigy said:

I don't think Deadshot is good and I don't think the zoners are out and out OP. I think both could use some slight tweaks. Make Starfire's charge not invincible vs a lot of moves and reduce active frames of b2 with fate.

My main issue is just the 0 read bullshit. You're just forced to hold stuff without them out playing you. Then you finally get in and they have great tools there too.

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Yeah, that's why I appreciate a good Cyborg/Darkseid/Arrow type characters cause they have to actually make some pretty good reads and plays to maintain the life lead, for better or worse depending on MU.

Like Darkseid vs Robin feels like a matchup where Darkseid can't just throw out beams willy nilly since Robin's MB roll is just so good and birdarang is actually a pretty decent answer. Like yea not everyone would enjoy watching Darkseid shoot beams but it's not 'easy' per se. And like you said, once you get in on Darkseid his tools are actually pretty limited unless he has trait out, and even then. Especially if I'm a character like Robin with his level of buttons, actually pretty fun to play

Not asking to take away tools either but like does Fate really need an anti-air that can literally anti-air you before you leave the ground, while also being safe on block, and having really deceptive recovery frames to the point he can do two in a row and catch a punish? Which has actually been abused by Fate's at majors?

I'm not saying "Nerf Fate B2" or anything but it's an example of what I'm talking about. Like I don't mind Fate having tools up close but he has some really good up close tools.

It's like if you took away Deadshot's 50/50 and a bit of his meter build he actually would've been an alright character. Like his zoning remains mostly the same and he still builds a decent enough amount of meter to use pushblock/MB rifle on occasion but he has to be smart with it, and he gets beaten by characters who can fight outside of his B1 range i.e a pretty good chunk of characters.... At least that's how I feel a zoning character should be done.

Wins fullscreen and has decent up close tools against rushdown, by the same token that rushdown characters win up close and have tools to help against zoning but they don't win fullscreen by any means.

Cursa said:

Fate has more rushdown tools than some rushdown characters have like come on.

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LOL.

The character has no viable overhead or low moves. All of his strings are negative on block. He arguably has the shortest throw range in the game. He does average damage at best and has no resets.

Any other character has superior rush down. Literally.

Also, Deadshot is garbage. Stop using him as an example for anything zoning related.

Lol zoning as of now in i2 is not bad at all.. getting in on star fire isn’t that bad at all.. the only problem I have with her is her bullshit bf2 move.. broken move

I think cyborgs zoning is much more of a problem since he can use the trait and grappling hook to consistently get away but at least his zoning takes somewhat thought

I think the zoning and Rushdown in this game has a great balance. Maybe just some tiny adjustments to some of these zoner’s footsies and close up tools which in combination with their zoning can be very frustrating to deal with

General M2Dave said:

LOL.

The character has no viable overhead or low moves. All of his strings are negative on block. He arguably has the shortest throw range in the game. He does average damage at best and has no resets.

Any other character has superior rush down. Literally.

Also, Deadshot is garbage. Stop using him as an example for anything zoning related.

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Deadshot being garbage is why I am using him an example of how not to change zoning, idk what you mean by that.

If you have ankh's (Yeah kinda hard to get out) he has block pressure and does immense meterless damage.

He also does have one of the best footsie tools in the game without question and has a safe on block string ender that leaves him in his footsie range which is really hard to deal with in a lot of matchups because it gives him the option of doing another F2 or backdashing and punishing you if you make the wrong read. If you sit there and block he just either does F2xxDB2 and you're in the same position or he backdashes and now he's halfscreen again

Above paragraph is literally how the Bane MU plays out. Like yea Fate isn't going toe-to-toe with Bane point blank but he has tools that really help him deal with him in F2, B2, and DB2 on top of the fact he zones him out super mega hard for 80% of the game.

He wins at every point on the screen aside from literally right in your face, and outside of that he wins hard af. And Bane isn't alone in that category

someone say tweedy? more like freedy lul

General M2Dave said:

I am not going to discuss which characters are easiest to use because there already is a thread for that topic. I will say that at a low level zoning characters tend to be easier to use than rush down characters because utilizing one or two moves full screen away is easier than closing the gap and applying the appropriate mix ups up close. However, the key words are "at a low level", on which important balance decisions should not be based. Doomsday, a rush down character in Injustice 1, was very effective and easy to use, particularly at a low level, because dealing with earth shaker, MB shoulder ram, and trait is difficult, yet I never complained about the character or asked NRS for changes. I focused on legitimate problems like Martian Manhunter. You and many other players, on the other hand, are constantly complainig about Starfire and Dr. Fate. Starfire is somewhat understandable, but Dr. Fate has already been normalized in the last patch. If NRS makes two or more changes, he will end up like Deadshot, a competitively worthless character on whom no player has even put the cursor for months. This goal is what anti-zoning zealots want for all zoning characters.

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But you'd have to admit that whenever you have multiple players picking a character up in a couple weeks and all of a sudden winning matches in Top 8, it's probably not that hard for them *at a high level*.

Vanilla Deadshot was no Kabal. Guys who were already good players were picking him up much faster than they were learning their other characters. And this was what people singled out -- that he was high reward for low input. This is a problem that plagued characters like Black Adam early in INJ2, and may or not be a problem for the current zoners.

Even characters like Zod weren't as easily picked up in a quick fashion due to his quirks. But when you have characters that can keep a lot of the cast out, are happy even up close/in footsie range and are also straightforward meta/easy to learn, that's always going to rile up the players and the viewrs alike.

CrimsonShadow said:

But you'd have to admit that whenever you have multiple players picking a character up in a couple weeks and all of a sudden winning matches in Top 8, it's probably not that hard for them *at a high level*.

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I am not sure what I am admitting to, but I already stated on the podcast and in this thread that the game is universally easy to play. Almost all high level players in the scene have a competent secondary character to complement the primary character. Counter picking has always been prevalent in the community, but secondary and tertiary characters were rarer in Mortal Kombat 9, Injustice 1, and Mortal Kombat X. Character selection has nothing to do with zoning and more so with match ups.

Can we like change the thread title so that it doesn't come off as just about everybody hates injustice 2? It's a bit misleading.
@Eldriken
@Espio
@CrimsonShadow

GLoRToR said:

Can we like change the thread title so that it doesn't come off as just about everybody hates injustice 2? It's a bit misleading.
@Eldriken
@Espio
@CrimsonShadow

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it's literally just a copy paste of title of the video posted by REO. If you have to get this protective of it to the point that you have to start editing shit like this on their behalf, chances are it holds more weight than you'd like to admit.

Roy Arkon said:

Even Tweedy said in the past that you should never play Star as a pure Zoner.

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Quoting "even Tweedy says" as though it helps finalize something is kinda memey. He has some of the most low level opinions on NRS games of anyone and is consistently wrong. Their is no credibility in that statement lol

all i needed to read is sonic fox said the games neutral is ass the king of 50-50 bat girl no need for neutral said its ass games fucking trash

God Confirm said:

Quoting "even Tweedy says" as though it helps finalize something is kinda memey. He has some of the most low level opinions on NRS games of anyone and is consistently wrong. Their is no credibility in that statement lol

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I'd also like to add;

Roy Arkon said:

And one final thing, if you are gonna tell me that I have to take REO's word more seriously just because he is a pro, just remember what Sonic said about Black Adam not too long ago on Twitter.

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??

Cursa said:

No, it's something someone would say to give NRS some honest feedback - don't make a game with 100 chars because it's unbalanced.

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Just because someone's feedback is honest doesn't mean that he is not wrong. MKX is super balanced for a game that has 100 chars. I'm not saying they should do it again, but the game is still very balanced. For MK11 they can have 2 Variations per char and the game will be even more balanced. I will it at that.

Cursa said:

I can't handle this anymore. Fate has more than "one or two" good tools outside zoning, he has one of the best AA's with loads of active frames and is safe on block, some of the best jump ins, for both jumping in and anti-airing, insane footsie tools and a -8 special that is unpunishable by basically the entire cast, which also knocks the opponent fullscreen on hit, serves as a semi-invincible WU, and has loads of pushback on it, putting him back in his ideal footsie range, or you could go for a backdash and just be halfscreen again.

Starfire is not a jack of all trades character, she's a zoner. She never has to rushdown outside of MAYBE a handful of matchups and basically all her specials are built towards zoning/defensive playstyle. Tbh I think she's just a better flavour for a lot of characters over Fate but also has infinitely better air control fullscreen than Fate.

Superman, Batman, Beetle, Supergirl, Green Lantern are jack of all trades characters, they can zone out pure rushdown characters for better or worse but usually get zoned out by pure zoners

Dude stop talking about stuff that you clearly don't understand. You literally have the audacity to say REO just needs to lab more to learn the MU's, and saying that Cyborg excels in other areas when he actually still has problems in areas that are part of the reason that makes him a below average character is insane.

Literally the whole Cyborg community has been talking about how terrible his anti-airs have been since the release of the game.

You're actually dismissing all the labbing the entire community has done in trying to find an anti-air, while also simultaneously saying that you don't know the character. So just stop with that it's hypocritical as fuck


Literally not at all what I said, I said take his word more seriously because he's put in the work in the lab.

I see why people have ignored you now, kinda feeling like doing the same tbh. Like, you say the community needs to stop complaining and level up their game instead, but also openly admit that you don't know some of the characters very well, so how would you know at all?

Hello? @Anyone? Am I going insane?

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I'm not dismissing anyone work nor they don't know the character. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that anyone, including REO, is gonna reach a certain limit of what a character can do, including that char's options in general, dealing with certain MU's etc. That's why people need to lab more, and that's why I mentioned the fact that the community is small, because if the people we already have would've lab even more, and we had more people in the community that can lab, we could've find options for a bunch of chars that we didn't know were there. But because the competitive portion of the community is small, and a lot of pros have pressure on them due to the IPS, there is not enough people to lab and find stuff. And it's true not just for Cyborg but for every char in all of our games, including the ones I main.

Also, does Cybrog really not have any other tools that he really needs an AA? I mean he does have the grappling hook that gives him mobility. So does he really need an AA? That's why I brought the point about counter balancing, because it seems that he does have more tools then just his projectiles and trait, which means that he might have not get an AA because if he would've, he could've been too strong. All I did was speculating and bringing points to the discussion, not dismissing or disrespecting anyone. And yes, I don't know that much about Cyborg as a char in the game, but from that I do know he doesn't have just the Zoning. And just like Deep said earlier, not every char needs to have AA options, again with counter balancing.

Also, Starfire is a jack of all trades, as being a char of that type is about the options that char has, not just what that char needs to do in each MU. She does have projectiles on the ground and air, but she also has great mobility with her air dash plus TC that be done on the ground and air, as well as a 50/50 with the F2 starter, some good staggers with strings like 2,3,2, great wakeup game with TC and Burning desire, several AA tools like DB3 and her damage is also very good.

On the other hand Dr. Fate is indeed a Zoning/Keepaway char, especially considering what you said about him. If all of his options aside from projectiles are a standing AA, a great footsie tool, a full screen pushing special etc , that means he is a Keepaway char. And just like @General M2Dave said, he doesn't have any overheads or lows, all of his strings are unsafe etc , can't get that much damage without ankh etc , that means he is a Zoner. Just because he has a jump in and his ground AA happens to be safe on block that doesn't change that. All of his other strings are not safe.

I don't know about every single char in the game, that is true, but that doesn't mean I can't give general and a more universal feedback regarding the community. And yes, I'm saying "feedback", because while people in the community like to complain about NRS and the games way too long and too much and beat already dead horses and try to mask that with any possible excuse in the book ("this is constructive criticism", "this is about MU's and not random stuff"etc ) they don't wanna get any criticism towards them. And to be fair, this is not true just to TYM, but to a bunch of other places on the internet in general. And yes, what I did was giving constructive criticism about the podcast and you as well.

So yeah, just like King Hippo and Slips said, you guys should find more options to deal with MU's, you got all the time you need. Don't go and ask for buffs and nerfs, there are other places that you can give criticism about regarding the games that will actually be constructive, and MU's are not a one of them. It might have been in the past, but not now. And even in other places you need to be logical with your complaints.

Roy would Ed boon have to shave his eyebrows and come down riding montaro with a signed declaration from every Evo winner telling you that were wrong for you to listen?

Roy Arkon said:

And yes, I don't know that much about Cyborg as a char in the game

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I agree fully.

Cursa said:

Literally the whole Cyborg community has been talking about how terrible his anti-airs have been since the release of the game.

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Umm, I have never once complained about Cyborg's anti-airs. His d2 does what I need it to do.