What's new

Why do people hate Injustice 2? Podcast Discussion.

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
where? I put it to you to screenshot that because I can't see it anywhere
It's too big to fit on one screen shot, I'll just quote the bit I was referring to;

"Unlike what these guys say, the game IS poorly balanced. Batman's ridiculous crossup literally hits everything, and even when you try to anti air(another problem with nrs games), it actually trades! That's why Batman players keep jumping. And his 'bats' character power makes everything he does safe. You have a character like Deadshot, who is not only the best spammer...oops 'zoner' in the game, but can also mix you up close. Pick a side, a character shouldn't excel at both."

He actually had some kinda decent points like the stages maybe being too big, and MB B3 being a neutral killer but when you fight the ones that don't do the whole step-back thing and can actually armour break them it's alright.

He's also right about DS 50/50s idk why they made a zoner who also has staggerable 50/50s that knock people fullscreen
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
I actually enjoy the game more than mkx..
My only problem with it are the visuals..

These are supposed to be the most powerful beings in the universe and the gameplay just makes them seem. Meh.. puny lasers. I wouldn’t want something over the top like marvel but as of now it’s seems lackluster..
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
It's too big to fit on one screen shot, I'll just quote the bit I was referring to;

"Unlike what these guys say, the game IS poorly balanced. Batman's ridiculous crossup literally hits everything, and even when you try to anti air(another problem with nrs games), it actually trades! That's why Batman players keep jumping. And his 'bats' character power makes everything he does safe. You have a character like Deadshot, who is not only the best spammer...oops 'zoner' in the game, but can also mix you up close. Pick a side, a character shouldn't excel at both."

He actually had some kinda decent points like the stages maybe being too big, and MB B3 being a neutral killer but when you fight the ones that don't do the whole step-back thing and can actually armour break them it's alright.

He's also right about DS 50/50s idk why they made a zoner who also has staggerable 50/50s that knock people fullscreen
I get why ppl complain about b3/f3's being dumb. It makes sense. But then you figure out you can punish these "neutral killer's" by doing your own mb b3/f3 to punish them throwing it out all willy nilly.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I get why ppl complain about b3/f3's being dumb. It makes sense. But then you figure out you can punish these "neutral killer's" by doing your own mb b3/f3 to punish them throwing it out all willy nilly.
I like the concept of them but the whole backstep thing is a real killer for me if you don't have the bar to spend. When I fight characters like say Atom I'll get like an armour break like 95% of the time if I make the right read and do a 11, the other 5% I usually time it a little late and get boop'd
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
I like the concept of them but the whole backstep thing is a real killer for me if you don't have the bar to spend. When I fight characters like say Atom I'll get like an armour break like 95% of the time if I make the right read and do a 11, the other 5% I usually time it a little late and get boop'd
That is a good point. Aquaman and Hellboy are notorious for that. That seems to just come down to an animation thing then a balance thing though.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
you can praise a game and complain about it at the same time, IJ2 is like the prime example of this, it's the most balanced of all the NRS games but probably gets the worst complaints out of all of them.

tbh I agree with what he said about SF/Fate normals. I don't find the jump ins too bad but I play Robin/Bane and he plays Cyborg soooo. Fate B2 is a busted ass normal though idk why people are sleeping on it

I don't think Reo meant to say MKX was a shitty game, or at least he didn't mean it like that. He probably meant more along the lines of "MKX had a lot of broke shit" which it did. Seemed like a slip of the tongue sorta moment but I could be wrong
The real problem wasn't that REO bashed IJ2, the problem was that he tried to encourge people to complain about jump ins of Star and Fate, so that everyone will go the same route as him to bark at NRS/WB to nerf them, as AA's and jump ins are the two things that REO put the most focus on. And it's not just for Cybrog, I've seen in him in the past talking about AA and jump ins in a very critical way, and this particular case looked almost as it game out of obsession. So he clearly did just for his personal benefit and not the general benefit of the game, and he tries to encourge us to do it for hi, which is exactly what we shouldn't do. No one should bark at NRS just so the can patch the game in his/her favor and to what he/she think that a fighting game should be designed. King Hippo and Slips talked about that and said the very same thing in their podcast, across the last two weeks.

And what's worse is that you also try to jump on the bandwagon and turn his own complainet more into what you in particular don't like to deal with, as he clearly talk about Star and Fate's jump ins only, not Fate's B2 oR any other normal. So you're riding on his complaiment just to make your own complaiment, that's exactly what we shouldn't do.

And yes the guys in the podcast did bash MKX, including REO. He called it's meta a "joke". But it never was.

Maybe. I feel like mkx got it worse, though (deservingly). I feel like the mkx haters were much more united and specific in their criticisms. The criticisms of IJ2 seem far more broad. The IJ2 haters don’t even seem hateful. They just seem bored.
As I've said in the past, MKX never deserved any hate, just like all of the NRS games never did. I understand that you like footsies and MKX favors Rushodwn and mixups more, but aside from the fact that MKX still offers a bit of everything including footsies (I know it from experince in the game), you can't approve any hate towards a game nor diminish it's credibilty just because of that alone. You can prefer whatever you want, but you can't ruin it for those who did love MKX, which did have a lot to offer, and that's the same mistake that REO and the others did in the podcast.

All of you guys need to seperate your own feelings from the objective goods of the games and chars. You don't have to play the game, but don't ruin it for others. And if you have a problem in an MU, don't rely on NRS to fix for you, NRS already toned fown their patches pattern for that reason, and it could be possible that MK11 being delayed is partily because of this as well. I highly suggest you to listen King Hippo and Slips's podcast this week if you haven't already, they have tackled this issue perfectly.
 
Last edited:

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
That is a good point. Aquaman and Hellboy are notorious for that. That seems to just come down to an animation thing then a balance thing though.
Indeed, it's animation affecting balance tho. Like I get that if I'm a bad footsie character and Aquaman/Hellboy/Scarecrow do a max range MB B3 then I probably shouldn't be able to do much against that, that's a matchup thing imo.

But if I'm Bane like point blank and they do MB B3 I feel like I should be able to properly S11 them and armour break without having to spend a resource myself - If I made the read
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
The real problem wasn't that REO bashed IJ2, the problem was that he tried to encourge people to complain about jump ins of Star and Fate, so that everyone will go the same route as him to bark at NRS/WB to nerf them, as AA's and jump ins are the two things that REO put the most focus on. And it's not just for Cybrog, I've seen in him in the past talking about AA and jump ins in a very critical way, and this particular case looked almost as it game out of obsession. So he clearly did just for his personal benefit and not the general benefit of the game, and he tries to encourge us to do it for hi, which is exactly what we shouldn't do. No one should bark at NRS just so the can patch the game in his/her favor and to what he/she think that a fighting game should be designed. King Hippo and Slips talked about that and said the very same thing in their podcast, across the last two weeks.

And what's worse is that you also try to jump on the bandwagon and turn his own complainet more into what you in particular don't like to deal with, as he clearly talk about Star and Fate's jump ins only, not Fate's B2 oR any other normal. So you're riding on his complaiment just to make your own complaiment, that's exactly what we shouldn't do.
Well, if we're talking about changing a character who is strong like Fate or Starfire then it'd make sense to change their normals rather than their zoning. Otherwise you get Deadshot Syndrome. if they took away DS's meter build and one of his 50/50s then he'd have been in an alright place. Let him keep the staggers even. So that's sorta why I take Reo's side there, the J3 is just one aspect of it.

Anti-airs are fucked in NRS games, if you're someone like Cyborg you have like a 0% chance of anti-airing like half the jump ins in this game outside of up shot read, as he said. IJ2 did it pretty good because there are a lot of characters with good anti airs. In fact there's actually tons. Robin, Starfire, Fate, Aquaman, Hellboy, Cold, Beetle, Brainiac, Flash, Catwoman, Supergirl... Probably more but they mostly fit into the "situational" category, like Sub's D2 which has a nutty hitbox but like they said is kinda slow so sometimes it's hard to do on a reaction for the better jump ins in the game.

Anti-airs are something that has been complained about for like a long ass time, it's not like Reo is the only one complaining.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
All of you guys need to seperate your own feelings from the objective goods of the games and chars. You don't have to play the game, but don't ruin it for others. And if you have a problem in an MU, don't rely on NRS to fix for you, NRS already toned fown their patches pattern for that reason, and it could be possible that MK11 being delayed is partily because of this as well. I highly suggest you to listen King Hippo and Slips's podcast this week if you haven't already, they have tackled this issue perfectly.
Also I think you need to also separate people who are complaining because they can't handle MU's and people who complain when there are actual problems. Like yeah there's a ton of people who complain about shit that isn't really a thing, literally everyone, myself, included at one point or another, but ya can't just throw everyone under the bus who says anything bad about the game, and just put a shitload of the complaints down to just MU problems, or something along those lines.

IJ2 is the most balanced NRS game, REO is right on that 100% and there is no arguing with it, there are no 8-2's in the whole game and the amount of 7-3's is extremely limited. But that doesn't mean the game doesn't have problems, and in fact it has quite a few, character specific or game-wide. For example, they even talk about the point I mentioned earlier (before I even got to it in the vid lol) that people don't pick up pocket characters because they NEED them but rather because it's so god damn easy to pick up a pocket zoner and do well with them, and cover your bad MU's. At least now we're starting to see more character specialists come out especially in WOTG's but ya still see a ton of people go instantly to character select still once they lose a match.

No shade, just my 2c.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
It's too big to fit on one screen shot, I'll just quote the bit I was referring to;

"Unlike what these guys say, the game IS poorly balanced. Batman's ridiculous crossup literally hits everything, and even when you try to anti air(another problem with nrs games), it actually trades! That's why Batman players keep jumping. And his 'bats' character power makes everything he does safe. You have a character like Deadshot, who is not only the best spammer...oops 'zoner' in the game, but can also mix you up close. Pick a side, a character shouldn't excel at both."

He actually had some kinda decent points like the stages maybe being too big, and MB B3 being a neutral killer but when you fight the ones that don't do the whole step-back thing and can actually armour break them it's alright.

He's also right about DS 50/50s idk why they made a zoner who also has staggerable 50/50s that knock people fullscreen
oh so now you think MB b3s are a neutral killer?
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
oh so now you think MB b3s are a neutral killer?
Uh, did you just come to say "I told you so" and move on, or do you wanna give something useful?

Didn't realise I wasn't allowed to change my mind, but this is the internet who am I kidding, people will probably hold me to the fact that I once sneezed 10 years ago and reckon I have the flu still

And even then, the solutions that I gave barely changed lol MB B3 on reaction still works as mentioned in the thread, MU dependant at what range. Like I said all that time ago. I'll admit that armour breaking some of them isn't easy, I hadn't of fought SC's who abused it real hard until I met one awhile ago and it was aids as Bane.

Robin made it easier though, MB F3'd that shit 90% of the time, the other 10% I didn't have the meter lol
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
I ditched this game last year at some point, don't remember when. Something about it just felt off. I can list a bunch of stream of consciousness bullshit about it.

I was so excited for Black Canary to be in one of these games and she released looking like Christina Applegate in the Anchorman movies, lmfao. I was expecting Ed Benes bad bitch Black Canary, and I got a stiffly animated middle aged mom. It was rough. The DLC was another big thing for me personally, I would have loved to see Zatanna back, or maybe Constantine, anything that could have lead to interesting magic/power designs. Instead of picking through the ocean of DC characters, they chose Hellboy, Raiden, and the TMNT. I fucking gagged. Starfire was a cool inclusion, but I would be lying if I said I'm not disappointed with her execution. Red Hood is just about on point. Who the fuck wanted to play Enchantress? Out of all the characters on the dark/magic side of DC they chose Enchantress. That's some really weak shit. Manta was cool, Atom is basically a non-factor. Atom would have been cool if they went with the Sword of Atom. They didn't though, and thus nobody gives a shit about Ryan Choi and his lame ass costume.

The premium costume idea was really fucking cool but it seemed like it totally got dropped at a certain point, and while the cosmetic stuff with the loot system was cool, I'd rather it not return. If the next game launches and a zoning character is as good as Deadshot was, I'm not fucking buying it. Miss me w/ that get good shit, I know how to get around projectiles, it's just not a fun way to play the game on either side, and I don't see how they let it happen twice now.
These stages need to get smaller and more inspired, like quickly. Release stage DLC too. Who the fuck cares about being on a random street in Metropolis? Put me in the Tower of Fate, or the Dreaming, or Madame Xanadu's shop. The House of Mystery, even. I'm not even sure I liked any of the stages in I2, they all felt so bland to me. The ones that stood out at the least were Atlantis and Slaughter Swamp. I mean holy shit, this is a universe rich with so many interesting locations and you put us at a shitty amusement park. Do something cool and put us in hell, have Lucifer Morningstar in the back doing something, don't put me in Arkham Asylum like ever again. Yall fucked that stage up two times in a row, one with shitty interactables, and then again with boring ass design. I mean please, just think outside of the box. How hasn't there been an Apokolips stage? New Genesis maybe?

I think that's the main issue overall is that nobody is trying to think big enough. You could have one of the craziest and coolest fighting games out there featuring weird ass characters like Big Barda and Mister Miracle fighting Klarion the Witch Boy in a vibrant environment where things are actually going on in the background like one of Zatanna's Stage Shows, but instead we get a muted color palette and boring ass Batman characters.
Great. Now I hate the game, too. Stupid Rexxy.
 

Deep33

Noob
- Between the 3 variations of any character in MKX, it is the most balanced FG to date.
- Nope, not every character needs to have anti-airing options. Reptile, for instance, is lousy for anti-airing, but, he has plenty of other tools to make up for it. It is more about finding your character's niche and quit thinking like a simpleton.

INJ2: Zoner (at highest level of play) Vs Non-Zoner (at highest level of play) , Zoner Wins. Every li'l weasel who denies this great truth is probably a weasel who mains a zoner for an easy time in life.
 
Last edited:

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
INJ2: Zoner (at highest level of play) Vs Non-Zoner (at highest level of play) , Zoner Wins. Every li'l weasel who denies this great truth is probably a weasel who mains a zoner for an easy time in life.
Not all cases but there are a decent chunk that do, yes, if you look at Bane/Flash type characters.

Characters like Black Manta, Cheetah, Hellboy and even Grodd now do pretty well against a good chunk of zoners
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I mean ‘the average stream’ monster should probably not be a barometer for a game though, as most of those people don’t support the community anyway.

A good deal of them are not even in our community, but just show up to talk ish.

They’ve been doing it since MK9 (complaining about block button, dial-a-combo, animations, etc).
Those people are REO's YouTube subscribers. I absolutely believe they represent the average NRS stream monster. They indirectly support the community by purchasing the game and the DLC.

Also, very few people are complaining about the things you mentioned. The vast majority criticize the slow pace (i.e., zoning) and character choices of the game.

I personally enjoy playing the game and I think most of these complaints are nonsensical. The "zoning character problem" is massively exaggerated. Even though Starfire is a recent phenomenon, only Grr places with Atom. Dr. Fate is only used as an occasional counter pick, but reading those YouTube comments you would think the character was Semiij's Catwoman.

Which this was more structured. Too many people at once talking over each other. Hard to listen to at a lot of points.
I agree 100%. This issue will most definitely be fixed in the next episode. The duration will also be more reasonable.

Thank you for the feedback.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I personally enjoy playing the game and I think most of these complaints are nonsensical. The "zoning character problem" is massively exaggerated. Even though Starfire is a recent phenomenon, only Grr places with Atom. Dr. Fate is only used as an occasional counter pick, but reading those YouTube comments you would think the character was Semiij's Catwoman.
It's not that zoning is the problem, it's just that it becomes a real boring and stale gamestyle to watch/play for a lot of people, and it's not without reason.

Especially becomes boring for a lot of people when you know there's still a ton of under-rep'd characters on the roster

Whether they're broken or not is another story but if you can read past the salty ones, the reasonable ones are that zoning in IJ2 is just not fun to watch for a lot of people.

SF is leaning into pre-patch Deadshot territory as a pocket character with the amount of people picking her up, which is an actual problem
 
Last edited: