I also dont exactly consider a round ending quickly to make a game that much harder. I mean, it does, yes, but it goes both ways. If you can kill me with one combo into one guess that sounds like a brutally difficult game mechanic in a FG, but if you step back and look at it more objectively.. it means it's easier to lose.. AND easier to WIN.
That kind of thing also puts slightly more emphasis on luck - and luck has nothing to do with difficulty - quite the opposite by and large.
Huge damage means two wrong decisions kill, but it also means it only takes two right ones to win. More decision making means more "stuff" happening and more interactions taking place, and since each and every character interaction is a test of "skill", the game's difficulty is applied again and again.
Because it is? The average move list of a character includes 100 different moves, it takes you more time to learn one character in Tekken then it does to learn several in a game like MKX. Then add in like 30-40 characters or however many are in Tekken 7. That's not just a small thing, that's a big deal. Not only do I have dramatically more that I have learn and learn to defend against, I have to be prepared to defend against so many more options during a match then in most games.Why people say that Tekken is so hard? It requires study on pointless big ass string lists, and having circunstancial combos depending on the wall and shit, but That's about it. And I don't play Street Fighter V (sry, too sexualized even for a japanese game, cannot bare it. And they're not even my type of sexualization, shame on you SF), but doesn't everyone says that it is extremely dumbed down and that the execution is a joke?
To be honest I found MKX really stressing and skill demanding when your opponent knows what they're doing. Game is oppresive as fuck.
I'd call that more tedious than difficult. To each their own, I guess.Because it is? The average move list of a character includes 100 different moves, it takes you more time to learn one character in Tekken then it does to learn several in a game like MKX. Then add in like 30-40 characters or however many are in Tekken 7. That's not just a small thing, that's a big deal. Not only do I have dramatically more that I have learn and learn to defend against, I have to be prepared to defend against so many more options during a match then in most games.
Moving in Tekken effectively requires more difficult inputs then anything found in NRS games past maybe cancel pressure. And Tekken has its share of cancels and command grab inputs that are way tougher then what you would find in a NRS game.
Defending in MKX is tough but a lot of that is because of the presence of 50/50 style mixups that lead into huge damage as well as things like chip and oppressive normals. But I have to learn to defend in Tekken as well, with a 3D plane to boot. The bottom line is that to get to a good level in Tekken, I have to do way more work then I would have to in MKX.
I mean if they added 20 more strings to Sub Zero's tool set which gave him way more mixups, would you call that more tedious or more difficult to defend against?I'd call that more tedious than difficult. To each their own, I guess.
I'm a Tekken casual, so take some of this with a grain of salt. Wanted to add in how there seems to be a specific defensive option for everything with options to counter those options. Like, was watching a thing on how every character has a universal parry that checks lows. BUT, you can't just throw it out, because every character also has an option to check that parry if their low gets caught.Still typing my main response. but.,. just that bolded part about Tekken shows you dont really understand Tekken at all. I'm not saying that hatefully, because the predictability and react-ability statement doesnt make any sense. You also talk about making one or two mistakes and dying.. have you watched Tekken rounds? they can end off one combo into a wall and one mistake after. Tekken game's are typically so fast the standard format is best of 3 rounds, not 2, because the damage and speed at which you lose is SO FAST, it warrants it. Yes, top players can sometimes run a clock out, but that's the same with almost any game occasionally and when it happens in Tekken (as with many games) it has nothing to do with a slow pace, but happens because things can go tits up SO FAST neither party wants to over commit and plays back.
I dont know what you mean saying Tekken is more forgiving if you dont know the strings because of the predictability and reactability though.. Strings in Tekken for instance, often have numerous enders or extensions, so you have to make a hard read on just when the other player stops, or what ender he does. Strings in MKX rarely behave like this at all, and if you know what string is being done, you know how to block it. Since most characters have a small handful of these, its a lot easier to know and understand an MKX character's strings than someone like Hwo in tekken. Hwo - as an example - has well over 100 moves and what he does, how he does it, the frame data, continuation, combos, options, and movements depend on which leg he has facing forward at the time, and he can switch forward facing legs after some moves, or not, depending on his preference. You cant memorize the string and say "Ok he's negative whatever after this, or this, and I block this with this pattern". Throws in Tekken are EXTREMELY powerful as well and require incredible reactions and knowledge to deal with. I know, we watch a tournament and you see JDCR break every attempt, but try it yourself vs some of the cast, where you not only have to react with the break in time, but use the correct break, which is based on what arm(s) and such are used.. giving some characters 1,2 and 1+2 breaks, and some characters have 3+4 breaks, and others on top. Normally throws have very little range, but many in Tekken have range approaching that of a jab or the like, massive oki off some, wall splats into 35-40% combos from some, and so on.
You mention reading your opponent on a deep level.. and Tekken - to continue the example - is absolutely FAMOUS for the necessity of reads. Absolutely everything in Tekken is a read. Every normal, string, hit,block, side step, everything and one wrong read or mistake and you are almost certainly at a wall now, and usually one more hit and you're dead.
Frame data is far more "fluid" in Tekken as well. Movement options and sidesteps/walks as well as in some cases stance transitions and such can seriously change what you can and cant do. In MKX you know a moves frame data, and you know when you get to take your turn - in Tekken you often have to make a read in these situations, just to take a turn when you opponent is negative (unless he's very very negative). AND EVEN THEN, since many moves have various crush/evasive properties you have to deal with all that as well.
So in MKX you CAN be crystal clear on frame data, in Tekken knowing it is every bit as important, but there are layers of mindgames laid on top of something as simple as trying to take your turn when your opponent is negative enough that you SHOULD be able to.
We all know there are A LOT of useless strings in tekken. Doing that to Sub-Zero has a name: unnecessary.I mean if they added 20 more strings to Sub Zero's tool set which gave him way more mixups, would you call that more tedious or more difficult to defend against?
I never stated that i've every played every FG on earth at a very technical level on my initial post.I'm a Tekken casual, so take some of this with a grain of salt. Wanted to add in how there seems to be a specific defensive option for everything with options to counter those options. Like, was watching a thing on how every character has a universal parry that checks lows. BUT, you can't just throw it out, because every character also has an option to check that parry if their low gets caught.
Wanted to mention that having higher damage combos doesn't necessarily make a game harder. Yeah, you have to block that, but you also have access to those same tools. Just taking a look at MK9, I've never watch somebody do that Cyrax 70% combo or whatever it was and said "oh man, this game is SO difficult and technical!" Because you win if you got that one touch. It doesn't necessarily make a game bad that characters can hit so hard, it just means that it isn't difficult to learn based on that alone.
Now for my not so professional opinion, really? MKX is the hardest to play fighting game? Compared to UNIST, the early Guilty Gear games, the later BlazBlue games, Marvel 3, Skullgirls, or any other anime game I'm forgetting? That's why so many people still play MKX right, because it's just so technical and demanding that it has become the new benchmark for who the best FG players are
I agree on the sexualization of SFV. On future street fighters, they should put the male characters in speedos, make em do buttslaps and introduce testicle bounce mechanics.For instance, give Balrog a pair of giant balls that bounce all the way to Chinatown and back. That should start to make all these boyz around here a bit uncomfortable, give em a feel for what your complaint was about.Why people say that Tekken is so hard? It requires study on pointless big ass string lists, and having circunstancial combos depending on the wall and shit, but That's about it. And I don't play Street Fighter V (sry, too sexualized even for a japanese game, cannot bare it. And they're not even my type of sexualization, shame on you SF), but doesn't everyone says that it is extremely dumbed down and that the execution is a joke?
To be honest I found MKX really stressing and skill demanding when your opponent knows what they're doing. Game is oppresive as fuck.
But the point is that it would make Sub Zero more difficult to defend against. There's useless stuff in every game.We all know there are A LOT of useless strings in tekken. Doing that to Sub-Zero has a name: unnecessary.
Twerkin Ryu, Butt Slap Guile and Bouncin Balrog, Street Fighter VI would be immaculate.Please give Balrog giant bouncing balls